Pictures to accompany EXPDSGT's handlebar mod writeup

I did the EXPDSGT handlebar pin mod and took pictures along the way. Pictures and writeup can be found at my site.

Enjoy!

PS... thanks to EXPDSGT for the good initial write up!

So did you end up rotating the final handlebar oreintation such that the grips moved *forward* (toward the headlamps)?

Or did I mis-read that, and you actually rotated the bars so the final grip position is more rearward (closer to the pilot)?

Brought the pivot point back and rotated the bars forward. So, I guess they're about where they were, but now they're far more straight and my wrists have less angle in them.

Nice job Chornbe; Thanks for sharing that. That damn handlebar angle has been a nuisance for many. At least now, we know what to do! :clapping:

Completed the mod myself tonight. I had already moved the bars back to the "C" position awhile back, and although I found some relief, the extra "straightness" in my wrists after the EXPDSGT mod with is sure to be an even bigger relief. I did the left side first, and the pin came out rather easily. The right side was another matter. I wrestled with it for awhile using every vice grip, cutters, etc I had in the box to no avail. I took a break, then went over and moved the left bar back and forth and realizing that I would never want to give up this much extra adjustment, and did what any red-blooded frustrated male would do. I went and got Mr. Dremel and in seconds I was re-assembling the bike. I'm usually a lot more anal about stuff like that, but enough was enough. Great mod, I can't wait to try it out.

After a 200 km round trip yesterday, the outside portion of both hands exhibited the standard soreness I have come to experience on my 06AE, sort of like someone had been beating on them with a broomstick handle. I had previously moved the bars to the rearward "C" position, and got a little relief, but not enough to make the bike pleasant to ride any distance, nowhere near the comfort of my 04 with D&D risers. One immediate drawback to this move (for a guy of my stature, 5' 8"), was I now could no longer see the heat control button for the grips.

I decided to tackle the job of removing the pins this morning. After using EVERY method I could think of to extract the pins, and exerting all the strength these old hands/arms are now capable of, both pins remained solidily in place (I swear I could hear them laughing). Out came Mr. Dremel (the pins were now no longer laughing), and 15 minutes later, both bars are installed and torqued, way more forward, and feel a LOT more comfortable. It's raining here in Nova Scotia at the moment, so a test ride will have to wait for this afternoon or tomorrow, but my initial impressions from just sitting on the bike are "WOW". A plus is I can once again clearly view the heat switch for the grips while in the riding position.

I will be getting my seat cut down and narrowed-up tomorrow (similar to my 04), so it will be most interesting to do some major kms and fully test this mod.

My compliments to both forum members for a great idea, and great pictures for those who may wish a clear illustration. Great work people!!!

So what keeps the bars from pivoting? Nothing more than the torque on the nuts and bolts?

I'll throw my opinion out there that this is a really good idea executed with the final step missing.

I'm all for making modifications and improving on a factory design, but this mod this not mechanically acceptable on a very basic level.

The final step would be to bore a new hole in the desired position for reintroduction of the second pin to provied a "safety" against accidental pivoting.

This mod has a "risk" level to it...before performing it, each individual needs to put value on that for their own personal situation.

PTP

What's the risk other than redundancy? As long as one pin remains in each bar I think it should be OK.

Pappy said:

What's the risk other than redundancy? As long as one pin remains in each bar I think it should be OK.

Click to expand...

This is a really good idea...I don't agree with the mechanics of it though.

The risk is that the bolts can loosen and allow the handle bars to move. There is no redundancy. Both the hex key bolt and the nut are designed as slip connections. The pins keep the bars in position, the nut and bolt keep the bar from moving up and down. With this method the bars pivot on one pin and then tightened down at the desired position. What torque value is sufficient to keep the bars in place?

With one pin removed all that remains are two pieces of flat metal squeezed together, you might as well remove both pins and crank down on both the nut and bolt to a point where you feel it is safe.

There would be some significant calculations to figure out the forces along that plane, but each time the handle bars are moved, that slip connection is being challenged. This occurs each time you push on one side or the other in a turn, it would also occur each time the bike goes over an expansion joint, pot hole, or into a drive way with a curb, etc.

To go to the extreme example of this, imagine the bike on a lift with the front wheel in the wheel vice and start pushinig on the handle bars, at some point on the scale that squeezed connection is going to be defeated. That force is likely at some value that you can't possibly achieve with the bike in a static position...but I can envision it possible in a crash. In a crash situation it doesn't matter any more, hell the pins could shear off and the connection could still slip.

My concern is with a repeated number applications of force in real word situations, that connection is like bending metal to the point of failure, with enough applications and the vibration in the bike eventually those connections will loosen. When? I don't know...it might be after 1,000 miles, maybe 100,000 miles.

I know that my examples are extreme.

PTP

PTP said:

My concern is with a repeated number applications of force in real word situations, that connection is like bending metal to the point of failure, with enough applications and the vibration in the bike eventually those connections will loosen. When? I don't know...it might be after 1,000 miles, maybe 100,000 miles.
I know that my examples are extreme.

PTP

Click to expand...

Good points to be sure, but I've ridden many bikes and driven many cars with less engineering in fasteners. My Honda F4i had less holding the clip-ons in place. The average clamp-type bars are just as simple. Likewise, say, fork tubes. In other words, knowing mechanical assemblies as well as I do, I feel fine with the "mod".

But yeah, you make some good points.

I agree with PTP about that connection being not as strong and waiting for failure to happen at an unsuspecting time. The pin was there for a reason like maybe for forward and back movement when the rider is apply weight to the bars going into a turn or comming out or just the normal pressure applied when just riding for fun. NOw remember when you drill that hole for the new pin you have compromised the connection strenght.

On this one it is not who's right or wrong. It is about what is your insurance company going to say if that is found as the reason for your involvement in an accident?

Always think Safety when performing a mod..

just another twist to think about weekend rider

I'm totally for keeping things as safe as possible.....but.....I think you guys are getting your panties in a knot over nothing.

I doubt that the pin is doing any "holding" of the bar other than as an assembly aid for someone on the assembly line or moving the bars without watching what is happening as the bolts are tightened to hold it in place. Plus, it is a defense mechanism for Yamaha....that way you cannot blame them for moving the bars into a position where the controls cannot be accessed or the bars hit something at full lock, etc. They limit the "adjustment" to a specified range they feel comfortable with by using the pins. Plus the pins make placement on the line and during modification by the owner fool proof as to getting the bars symmetrical and not hitting anything. Obviously, removing the pins allows MUCH greater freedom of adjustment/movement and you can obviously adjust the bar far enough that controls could be fouled or the bar hit something at full lock. So...if you pull the pins out it is mute evidence that you adjusted them past Yam's recommendations....but if you know what you are doing and are carefull there is little or no risk in my estimation.

Fork tubes are located and help by similar clamp loads on many bikes with only a single pinch bolt. If loosening scares you then put lock tite on the bolt. But, really, how often do you see pinch bolts loosen on their own on the triple clamps.??

For the record, my CBX has a similar pin arrangement to limit the adjustment of the handle bars. The pin "fell out" so I could adjust them further towards where I wanted them the day after I bought the bike. That was 27 years ago and 50K miles and the bars have never moved or loosened because the pins were missing....LOL.

I know it is a completely different situation but if you are familiar with the cam timing drives on many engines the cam sprocket mounts on the cam with a single center bolt clamping it to the cam. There is a similar pin to hold the sprocket into position. Looks an awfull lot like the handle bar mount being discussed. I've seen many cases where that pin was removed during assembly of the cam sprocket to allow the sprocket timing on the cam to be modified. Just set it and clamp it together with the bolt. Never moves in hundreds of hours running on a dyno. Done it many times. That pin is just a locating device for assembly. The bolt clamp load in the joint is plenty to hold the assembly together....cam sprocket or handle bar.

Jestal - good points. You get the chornbe seal of approval

I have 9,500 on my 2006 that i got the last week of april. My body has adjusted to the bar angle but could be better, did the mod and i think it will be more comfortable ,as far as the bars moving i don't see that happening as long as you don't drop the bike and if that happens its not going to matter.I will take it for a good run tomorow.

jestal said:

I'm totally for keeping things as safe as possible.....but.....I think you guys are getting your panties in a knot over nothing.
I doubt that the pin is doing any "holding" of the bar other than as an assembly aid for someone on the assembly line or moving the bars without watching what is happening as the bolts are tightened to hold it in place. Plus, it is a defense mechanism for Yamaha....that way you cannot blame them for moving the bars into a position where the controls cannot be accessed or the bars hit something at full lock, etc. They limit the "adjustment" to a specified range they feel comfortable with by using the pins. Plus the pins make placement on the line and during modification by the owner fool proof as to getting the bars symmetrical and not hitting anything. Obviously, removing the pins allows MUCH greater freedom of adjustment/movement and you can obviously adjust the bar far enough that controls could be fouled or the bar hit something at full lock. So...if you pull the pins out it is mute evidence that you adjusted them past Yam's recommendations....but if you know what you are doing and are carefull there is little or no risk in my estimation.

Fork tubes are located and help by similar clamp loads on many bikes with only a single pinch bolt. If loosening scares you then put lock tite on the bolt. But, really, how often do you see pinch bolts loosen on their own on the triple clamps.??

For the record, my CBX has a similar pin arrangement to limit the adjustment of the handle bars. The pin "fell out" so I could adjust them further towards where I wanted them the day after I bought the bike. That was 27 years ago and 50K miles and the bars have never moved or loosened because the pins were missing....LOL.

I know it is a completely different situation but if you are familiar with the cam timing drives on many engines the cam sprocket mounts on the cam with a single center bolt clamping it to the cam. There is a similar pin to hold the sprocket into position. Looks an awfull lot like the handle bar mount being discussed. I've seen many cases where that pin was removed during assembly of the cam sprocket to allow the sprocket timing on the cam to be modified. Just set it and clamp it together with the bolt. Never moves in hundreds of hours running on a dyno. Done it many times. That pin is just a locating device for assembly. The bolt clamp load in the joint is plenty to hold the assembly together....cam sprocket or handle bar.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with the estimation of little or no risk.

All that matters is one is comfortable with the modifications they make, and assume the responsibility that comes with it. This is more than adding a "farkle". Personally I would not make this modification based on basic mechanic principles and my personal experiece coupled with education.

PTP

Excellent thread, gentlemen! Appreciate everyone's input here.

Slightly off-topic: chornbe, what is this white module with 5 gray buttons on it (attached to the underside of your left handlebar here)? Just curious...

jestal said:

Fork tubes are located and help by similar clamp loads on many bikes with only a single pinch bolt.

Click to expand...

This is not quite accurate.... the FJR forks, as is typical for most modern bikes, are retained by three pinch bolts: one in the upper triple tree, the other two on the lower triple tree.

I have not lifted the '06 handlebars yet to look at this situation, but just from chornbe's photos, I would agree with jestal that the pins are likely more for location purposes than it is for force acting on the triple tree. OTOH, if the pins are an extremely close, tight fit in the upper triple tree holes (as they obviously are in the handlebar itself), then that's a different story.

So, you guys who have done this mod.... how is the "fit' of these pins in the triple tree? Extremely snug? Not very snug? Perhaps just a little bit of play?

All that matters is one is comfortable with the modifications they make, and assume the responsibility that comes with it.

Click to expand...

Excellent.... this statement is positively, absolutely 100% correct!

Warchild said:

jestal said:

Fork tubes are located and help by similar clamp loads on many bikes with only a single pinch bolt.

Click to expand...

This is not quite accurate.... the FJR forks, as is typical for most modern bikes, are retained by three pinch bolts: one in the upper triple tree, the other two on the lower triple tree.

Click to expand...

Yes, having pulled the FJR fork tubes out many times already (that pesky RaceTech shock valving that just begs to be played with..) I realize that the bottom triple clamp has two bolts and the top one has one. I specifically said "many" bikes, not "the FJR..." Even so, one bolt holds that joint on the top on both sides perfectly fine. My point was that I have several other motorcycles of various makes and manufacturers sitting in my basement right now with only one bolt on each of the triple clamp connections of the forks. Some of them are designed for pretty heavy duty use in the dirt...i.e...motocross bikes. They hold fine with one bolt at the triple clamp connections. Plus, on many bikes, there is only one bolt holding the upper triple clamp connection to the steering stem. Holds fine.

Soo... there are "many" bikes with only a single pinch bolt holding the fork tube in each triple clamp connection. Better??

Maybe we are arguing syntax here. ...LOL. I certainly do NOT want to downplay the safety aspect of the handle bar connection and how it must be maintained. I think that the connection with two fasteners will hold fine without the pins in place, personally, but, I have an 03 without the "problem" so what do I know.

On a scale of modifications that affect safety this one would be fairly low on my list of possible risks compared to changing brake line material and design (with possible interferences and loosening connections), changing brake pads/rotors due to the design changes and material changes and possible missassembly involved, adding a variety of other farkles that could affect aero stability, adding larger horns that will hit the lower triple clamp, adjusting the steering stem bearings....etc. Any of these could have a much greater affect than one handle bar loosening...assuming that both of them wouldn't just fall off at once.

Besides, the handle bar mod is just too easy to validate. Put it together without the pins, tighten things down, sit on the bike and TRY to wrench the handle bar loose by tugging or pulling as hard as you can. If you can't loosen it then it isn't likely to loosen itself.

I believe the main point is that we should all be big boys and take responsibility for our modifications. If something doesn't work right then realize who made the mod and accept that responsibility. Much like the slider discussion....accept who turned the wrench putting the mod'ed part on and accept the responsibility for the final design change buyoff and consequences.

Warchild said:

Excellent thread, gentlemen! Appreciate everyone's input here.
Slightly off-topic: chornbe, what is this white module with 5 gray buttons on it (attached to the underside of your left handlebar here)? Just curious...

Click to expand...

That's the Griffen Air Click - Remote control for my iPod

Warchild said:

I have not lifted the '06 handlebars yet to look at this situation, but just from chornbe's photos, I would agree with jestal that the pins are likely more for location purposes than it is for force acting on the triple tree. OTOH, if the pins are an extremely close, tight fit in the upper triple tree holes (as they obviously are in the handlebar itself), then that's a different story.
So, you guys who have done this mod.... how is the "fit' of these pins in the triple tree? Extremely snug? Not very snug? Perhaps just a little bit of play?

Click to expand...

The pins are a no-pressure fit into the tree. They're press-fitted into the bars only for the purposes of ensuring you have them for lining up. They're not deep into the holes and the casting they go into will break under extreme loads before those anemic pins will do any good (imo). The cast webbing between the holes is thin, and just the fact that it's cast aluminum means it's not made for high-stress use.

In my educated estimation, the pins are hovering between useless and trivial-at-best when it comes to actually keeping things seated under load.

Aftermarket wheels are held into cars with the same principal these bars are: bolts are securing two flat surfaces and the average wannabe chrome wheel on the average hopped up camaro or civic takes *far* more abuse, and directional and torque changes than these handlebars do.