Tire Runout

Coyote · Aug 3, 2007

Looks like Avon is going to replace one or both of my Storms. I want to check the runout on the next set, before I hit the road. I did a crude measurement on the ones I'm having problems with, and there is a low spot of about 1/16" or more from the high spot.

What is acceptable runout for a tire and the best way to measure it? :dntknw:

charismaticmegafauna · Aug 3, 2007

Coyote said:
Looks like Avon is going to replace one or both of my Storms. I want to check the runout on the next set, before I hit the road. I did a crude measurement on the ones I'm having problems with, and there is a low spot of about 1/16" or more from the high spot.What is acceptable runout for a tire and the best way to measure it? :dntknw:

Good question (acceptable runout). I don't recall ever seeing a spec. for that. Tires are rubber and thus flex, etc. -- if the wheel is out, so will be the whole package. So, maybe checking the bare wheel, too, would be good. There are two measurements -- radial run-out and axial run-out. Almost anything fastened to a frame/suspension part will work (piece of wire, popsickle stick....) -- even just eyeballing, if you're careful. If you have something like a wheel trueing jig available you're set. Also, inspect near the edge of the rim to assure that the tire bead has seated properly -- equidistant from rim edge to tire marks.

On a related note: ime, run-out issues can often be attributed to insufficient seating of the bead. Often caused by the near constant effort to drive-down the cost of tire changes. Crud builds up on the inner/bead surface of the wheel rim that needs to be removed w/solvents/wire brush, etc. (tire needs to be mounted to a clean rim). And, often, lots of good tire lube. When no one's willing to pay for this -- well, it often just doesn't get done. :dribble:

Brutane · Aug 3, 2007

> What is acceptable runout for a tire and the best way to measure it?

Lateral Runout is 0.02in (0.5mm)

Radial Runout is 0.04in (1.0mm)

Steve

Coyote · Aug 7, 2007

Thanks Steve,

I Just mounted a new Avon Storm today and it looks very close to, or more than that 1mm runout. Need to get something to measure it accurately.

I think this may be my last set of Avons. Crappy mileage and sent back the front tire due to some kind of weird thumping. Southwest Moto may replace it, but that's a iffy. It's a pain it ass having to locate the heavy spot on the tire also.

Can't wait to hear how folks here like the new Michelins.

Brutane said:
> What is acceptable runout for a tire and the best way to measure it?

Lateral Runout is 0.02in (0.5mm)

Radial Runout is 0.04in (1.0mm)

Steve

Jamie · Aug 8, 2007

Doing a proper measurement is pretty cheap. https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...?Itemnumber=623

The dial indicator is less than $15 and they also sell a magnetic base for $20 which makes it really easy. They measure to a mill, so measuring 20 or 40 mils should be pretty easy. You have to measure the rim and actually you want to measure the runout on the inside of the rim where the tire beads against the hub. If you wheel is way out of wack there are shops around that can true the wheel to better than factory for less than a new wheel. You can also measure lateral runout on your brake rotors which is pretty handy.

As far as the tire, unless it's a bad tire, often you can take a look at edge of the tire just above the rim and see if it beaded properly when they installed it. Sometimes the tire won't go into place properly. Maybe it's because they didn't use enough pressure, or lube, or the tire was cold...etc.... But it's pretty common. If someone else mounted your tires I'd also double check the direction arrow to make sure they put it on the right way.

Just adding my $0.02

-Jamie

dcarver · Aug 8, 2007

Coyote said:
Thanks Steve,
I Just mounted a new Avon Storm today and it looks very close to, or more than that 1mm runout. Need to get something to measure it accurately.

I think this may be my last set of Avons. Crappy mileage and sent back the front tire due to some kind of weird thumping. Southwest Moto may replace it, but that's a iffy. It's a pain it ass having to locate the heavy spot on the tire also.

Can't wait to hear how folks here like the new Michelins.

Coyote, great post, you beat me to it. While on WooFoo, my front Avon Storm got very weird. No Thumping, but speeds greater than 85 resulted in the radar detector coming off the Velcro and the instrument pod nearly impossible to read.
Later, I had an opportunity to raise the front off the ground using the 'wooden block under the headers' technique' and determined my front tire was more than 1/8" out of round. The shoulders were fully seated on a clean rim, the tire had ~2,300 miles on it. Additionally, severe cupping was found around approximately 20% of the diameter, presumably caused by the out of round condition.

I opine that Avon's primary problem is several out of round moldings at one of their factories, and this OOR condition is causing the problems we're currently experiencing.

It would be interesting to make a poll asking fjr pilots to measure the out of round condition on newly installed front Avon's and their results as the tire wears. My bet is that many will find brand new, freshly and correctly installed front Avon's are out of round by 2, 3, 4 mm's or more. IMHO, of course.

Coyote · Aug 8, 2007

Thanks Jamie

It is Harbor Freight tomorrow. I mounted the tire myself. The rim was cleaned well using a Scotchbrite pad. I beleive I did a good job on mounting the tire, but I'll double check from now on. I quickly get a good double pop when I seat the tires. The front wheel gets checked for runout after my Harbor Freight run.

Jamie said:
Doing a proper measurement is pretty cheap. https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...?Itemnumber=623
The dial indicator is less than $15 and they also sell a magnetic base for $20 which makes it really easy. They measure to a mill, so measuring 20 or 40 mils should be pretty easy. You have to measure the rim and actually you want to measure the runout on the inside of the rim where the tire beads against the hub. If you wheel is way out of wack there are shops around that can true the wheel to better than factory for less than a new wheel. You can also measure lateral runout on your brake rotors which is pretty handy.

As far as the tire, unless it's a bad tire, often you can take a look at edge of the tire just above the rim and see if it beaded properly when they installed it. Sometimes the tire won't go into place properly. Maybe it's because they didn't use enough pressure, or lube, or the tire was cold...etc.... But it's pretty common. If someone else mounted your tires I'd also double check the direction arrow to make sure they put it on the right way.

Just adding my $0.02

-Jamie

Coyote · Aug 8, 2007

I sent the bad front tire to Southwst Moto and spoke with the Avon rep. I'll see what happens. Before I pulled the wheel, the front tire felt like it was drunk at low speed. Very weird. I'll post my measurements here.

BTW..... what did you buy for a replacement in Utah?

dcarver said:
Coyote, great post, you beat me to it. While on WooFoo, my front Avon Storm got very weird. No Thumping, but speeds greater than 85 resulted in the radar detector coming off the Velcro and the instrument pod nearly impossible to read.
Later, I had an opportunity to raise the front off the ground using the 'wooden block under the headers' technique' and determined my front tire was more than 1/8" out of round. The shoulders were fully seated on a clean rim, the tire had ~2,300 miles on it. Additionally, severe cupping was found around approximately 20% of the diameter, presumably caused by the out of round condition.

I opine that Avon's primary problem is several out of round moldings at one of their factories, and this OOR condition is causing the problems we're currently experiencing.

It would be interesting to make a poll asking fjr pilots to measure the out of round condition on newly installed front Avon's and their results as the tire wears. My bet is that many will find brand new, freshly and correctly installed front Avon's are out of round by 2, 3, 4 mm's or more. IMHO, of course.

dcarver · Aug 8, 2007

Coyote said:
... Before I pulled the wheel, the front tire felt like it was drunk at low speed. Very weird. I'll post my measurements here.BTW..... what did you buy for a replacement in Utah?

Exactly what mine did Coyote. At low speeds the bars would just swing left to right, lazily at first, but as the tire wore and the bar motion got worse, especially with light front brake applied. It was to the point that I'd only use the rear brake for the last 100 feet or so. Didn't want to get a DUI ticket at 20 mph or less.

At Park City I replaced the Avon's with my second most favorite tire, Pilot Roads,front and rear. I will not trust Avon's again for a long trip. Running around my neck of the woods, close to home, sure.. I love the way the Avon's handle and grip.. but effectively those ****** tires ruined 5 days of my trip because I didn't trust them and couldn't play hard.

Hey - PM me with the Avon reps phone number or post it up here? I'd like to have a talk with that feller too.

Tire Runout

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