05 missing/surging

jetflier · Jun 5, 2008

Bought an 05 with 14K miles a couple months ago. Engine rpm fluctuates up and down (surge?) at idle, maybe 25-50 rpm. More irritating is the rough running and surging with the throttle just off idle. Doesn't seem to matter what the engine speed is, just the throttle position. Once I get past the first 1/4-1/2 inch or so, it runs great. I beg the forum gurus for help, as I think I've done all the searching and wrenching I can do without some new ideas. It is a big hassle in traffic and rolling on into a corner.

Bike has aftermarket exhaust (Two Bros.). Since I bought it I have done (thx to this forum):

--Iridium plugs

--Trimmed and reinstalled the plug wires

--BJM with many different settings (don't have access to a sniffer)

--Cleaned the white wiring plugs under the T-bar

--Adjusted all play out of throttle cable

--Dealer just did TPS recall and I readjusted it (was 18-102 from the dealer, now 16-100.) Multimeter does only show 600 ohms if I am connecting it correctly. Ionbeam's post doesn't really go into specifics, but I probed the two outer terminals on the TPS sensor...

None of this seemed to have any effect on my problem. I could buy a PCIII, but hesitate to lay out that kind of dough without some degree of confidence that it will fix my issue. Seems like if a range of CO settings don't have any effect, the PCIII won't either?

Thx all for your help so far.

JamesK · Jun 5, 2008

I'm no mechanic, but I would check the following, since these are relatively fast and cheap to eliminate and are likely suspects:

- Throttle Body Sync (TBS) - not too hard, and is covered in great detail in other threads on this forum.

- Vacuum leaks - this you can check by spraying a fine mist of water over the vacuum hoses and see if the engine rpm changes.

jetflier · Jun 6, 2008

JamesK said:
I'm no mechanic, but I would check the following, since these are relatively fast and cheap to eliminate and are likely suspects:
- Throttle Body Sync (TBS) - not too hard, and is covered in great detail in other threads on this forum.

- Vacuum leaks - this you can check by spraying a fine mist of water over the vacuum hoses and see if the engine rpm changes.

Sorry, forgot to mention that I did the TBS already. Have also tried the vacuum leak check as you describe but it was pretty messy. Might need a finer mist than a spray bottle. Any other ideas out there?

Wicked Webby · Jun 6, 2008

Jet,

What Co are you running?

WW

jetflier · Jun 6, 2008

7, 26, 15, 9 were the settings when I got the bike. There was no jumper at the time but I can't say whether the old owner adjusted it at some point and removed the jumper or not. I have tried +3, +5, and +7 and noticed very little difference.

Wicked Webby · Jun 6, 2008

It might be worth doing some searching and checking out what some 05 owners have had for stock co numbers. The 07's seem to come with only 2 or 3 different sets of co values. I bet you could figured out if those are the stock numbers or if they have been changed.

Anyone here with a 05 done the barbarian mod?? If so, what were your stock co numbers???

keithaba · Jun 6, 2008

I'm guessing that it is a little worse than 25-50 rpms? I mean, I've never seen a motorcycle that didn't fluctuate during idle.

Who did the TPS, you or the dealer? Just curious if you used a home made carb tuner, mercury containing tuner, or something without mercury. Only reason I ask is because if the accuracy of the carb tuner is off, the TPS will be off.

Also, I'm not sure a PCIII would fix that. When I hook up my PCIII to the computer, it always shows a slight fluctuation in rpm's but tends to evenout more once warm. Even when warm it still fluctuates a bit.

I don't think the PCIII alters ratios until after you start applying throttle, at least it doesn't look like it from the map setting. (I could be wrong though).

Finally, what is your actual idle? Maybe bumping it up a little would help out. I tend to keep mine around 1150 or so, stock is usally around 1000.

jetflier · Jun 6, 2008

It may be a little worse than 25-50 rpm, but it's a fast fluctuation/oscillation up and down, not just a steady idle that varies.

I did the TBS using a Morgan Carbtune. Synced out perfectly.

Idle is at 1100 now. Seemed to not oscillate as much at 1000, but ran just as rough off idle. The roughness bothers me much more than the idle oscillation and could be causing it.

Appreciate any 05 stock CO settings.

keithaba · Jun 6, 2008

Well, I'm **** out of ideas. Hopefully someone more mechanically inclined will take a look at this thread and have some other ideas.

I'm sure someone will post up their CO values soon, there are many who have done the barbian mod.

03HiYoSilver · Jun 6, 2008

Jet,

Please do this check before you mess with anything else.... it has done wonders for me and many others and it does not cost you anything!

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...mp;#entry268059

Wicked Webby · Jun 6, 2008

Jet,

Now HiyoSilver maybe onto something here...

Worth checking!

WW

jetflier · Jun 6, 2008

Already did it...twice. I really didn't see much corrosion in there, but I cleaned that one and all the others, just in case.

Charlie Hoss · Jun 6, 2008

Could the spark plug wires be arcing slightly? Raise the tank and run engine in the dark, look for arcing between close wires or between wires and engine or other ground.

jetflier · Jun 6, 2008

Ok, just did that and no arcing observed. It does seem electrical to me because CO settings seem to have no effect. In my limited experience, fuel and air problems are usually an on or off kind of thing, or get worse under a load. Do the coils ever go bad on the FJR? Any way to test the plug wires or coils?

Charlie Hoss · Jun 7, 2008

jetflier said:
Ok, just did that and no arcing observed. It does seem electrical to me because CO settings seem to have no effect. In my limited experience, fuel and air problems are usually an on or off kind of thing, or get worse under a load. Do the coils ever go bad on the FJR? Any way to test the plug wires or coils?

You can test both with an ohm meter. The shop manual should tell you the readings if everything is in spec, as well as the test procedure. I don't thing that a leaking plug wire can be detected with the meter.

03HiYoSilver · Jun 7, 2008

Here is the method to Test the Coil wires given by IONBEAM, I am not smart enough to know this:

Wires - Pull the wires associated with coil #1 off the plugs, put your ohmmeter probes up inside the plug boots; read 12k to 18k if all is well. Same is true for coil #2. This isn’t a full, definitive test for the caps, wires and coil but it is an important test to detect major failures.

In addition, what I did, was to Isolate ANY Wire to Wire contact or Wire to Metal contace by adding additional rubber (insulation) material ( ie cut my spare auto hose materials) in between them or around them, Including the Small wires above the Injectors (These are Small wires that have contact/touch the Metal piping between them).

Hope you find your problem.

ekms377 · Jul 9, 2008

jetflier said:
Bought an 05 with 14K miles a couple months ago. Engine rpm fluctuates up and down (surge?) at idle, maybe 25-50 rpm. More irritating is the rough running and surging with the throttle just off idle. Doesn't seem to matter what the engine speed is, just the throttle position. Once I get past the first 1/4-1/2 inch or so, it runs great.

I just got a '04 with 28k miles and it has the similar problem. The bike has been sitting for awhile but I am def going to ck everything that was mentioned here. Thanks for all the input and info. I need to go through the bike anyways. Hope I can figure it out.

ionbeam · Jul 9, 2008

jetflier said:
Bought an 05 with 14K miles a couple months ago. Engine rpm fluctuates up and down (surge?) at idle, maybe 25-50 rpm. More irritating is the rough running and surging with the throttle just off idle. Doesn't seem to matter what the engine speed is, just the throttle position. Once I get past the first 1/4-1/2 inch or so, it runs great. I beg the forum gurus for help, as I think I've done all the searching and wrenching I can do without some new ideas. It is a big hassle in traffic and rolling on into a corner.
Bike has aftermarket exhaust (Two Bros.). Since I bought it I have done (thx to this forum):

--Iridium plugs

--Trimmed and reinstalled the plug wires

--BJM with many different settings (don't have access to a sniffer)

--Cleaned the white wiring plugs under the T-bar

--Adjusted all play out of throttle cable

--Dealer just did TPS recall and I readjusted it (was 18-102 from the dealer, now 16-100.) Multimeter does only show 600 ohms if I am connecting it correctly. Ionbeam's post doesn't really go into specifics, but I probed the two outer terminals on the TPS sensor...

None of this seemed to have any effect on my problem. I could buy a PCIII, but hesitate to lay out that kind of dough without some degree of confidence that it will fix my issue. Seems like if a range of CO settings don't have any effect, the PCIII won't either?

Thx all for your help so far.

Info was available.

diAG Check

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...ost&p=37996

Diagram

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=202869

Anatomy

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=148013

How the TPS works

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=124991

General troubleshooting that lead to the TPS

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=127397

ekms377 · Jul 9, 2008

In another thread, the guys O2 sensor was shorting against the frame. Maybe ck into that....??

05 missing/surging

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