New generation H4 HIDs

Warchild · Jan 19, 2007

Starting a new thread here so as to not hijack the Soltek thread....

evilmedic13 said:
Warchild said:

ElectroSport is now at the point where they are going to purchase a FJR headlight assembly and ship it off to the factory for their engineers to use for creating a perfect H4 Hi/Lo HID system for the FJR. But, again, no guarantees how it will work in any other H4 reflector housing. B)

Click to expand...

Forgive for sounding dumb here,(it's what I do best afterall). Would our headlights be transformed into HID's w/ this kit? :dribble:

Yes, we would be a total HID headlight assembly at that point... HID low-beam, and HID high-beam.

Another exceptionally cool aspect about this system I am testing for ElectroSport: unlike a standard H4 bulb, when you switch the stock headlight switch to go from Low-Beam to Hi-Beam, the low-beam HID bulb does NOT extinguish; it remains on at all times.

This eliminates the concern of temporarily riding in darkness when you go from low to high (i.e.: "warm-up" lag time until the high-beam HID goes to "full bright").

This also means that we will have FOUR (4) HID bulbs burning in our reflector housings when switched to high beams. This is mostly good, and slightly bad.... the good is that we should have a friggin' Wall of Light coming out the front end.

The Bad is that we are now burning an extra 48 watts over stock halogen high-beam...

BrunDog · Jan 19, 2007

Tease!

-BD

Toecutter · Jan 19, 2007

Warchild said:
This also means that we will have FOUR (4) HID bulbs burning in our reflector housings when switched to high beams. This is mostly good, and slightly bad.... the good is that we should have a friggin' Wall of Light coming out the front end.
The Bad is that we are now burning an extra 48 watts over stock halogen high-beam...

Today, when I was looking at my reflector assemblies, I noticed that there was an area directly above the sodium capsules, like a ceiling and not the actual concave reflective part, but coated with reflective material, where the shiny stuff appears to have burned away. I'm sure it doesn't affect the quality of light, but with two sodium capsules in there, it might start eating away at the upper concave area and eventually degrade the beamcast. :dntknw:

OhioFJR1300 · Jan 21, 2007

:yahoo: :yahoo: Great Warchild!. I can not wait to add these to my 06 FJR. I knew that if i waited long enough someone would come up with a way to do this. What about a place to mount the ignitors and such?

Ignacio · Jan 21, 2007

OhioFJR1300 said:
:yahoo: :yahoo: Great Warchild!. I can not wait to add these to my 06 FJR. I knew that if i waited long enough someone would come up with a way to do this. What about a place to mount the ignitors and such?

I wouldn't hold your breath that this batch of HIDs igniter/ballasts are going to be more friendly to the '06 and newer nose area.

Bull · Jan 21, 2007

very interested

keep the good news coming WC

cheers

FJRocket · Jan 21, 2007

Ignacio said:
OhioFJR1300 said:

:yahoo: :yahoo: Great Warchild!. I can not wait to add these to my 06 FJR. I knew that if i waited long enough someone would come up with a way to do this. What about a place to mount the ignitors and such?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't hold your breath that this batch of HIDs igniter/ballasts are going to be more friendly to the '06 and newer nose area.

I just had my AE apart yesterday, trying to find nooks and crannies for ballasts, ignitors, relays, controllers and such. There are several SMALL nooks for parts. Depending on the size of the ballasts, and whether they are more compact, even when combined with ignitors, they MIGHT fit either to the side (left mostly) or under directly under the lights at the bottom of the "nose" tupperware. There's not very much room there for larger parts. There is a considerable amount of room over to the left, in front of, and below and behind the glove box that's large enough for a pair of ballasts.

I could NOT get my Bixenon ballasts to sit anywhere in the cowling reasonably on my 2006, given the cable length constrictions of my Bixenon harness. I think Warchild and perhaps others did this install early on when the '06 first came out. I think he said he was able to shoehorn a set of HIDs inside the cowling of the 2006 bike, and there's probably a tech report on it somewhere.

What I did was put the ballasts, relays and controllers under the front of the tank, in front of the T bar, just over the head/water jacket of the engine. Yes, it's going to get very hot there, and electronics don't like that. But the airflow in there is pretty good, and I'm certainly willing to see what happens with my old Bixenon set of HIDs. At least it''s good to know that on 2nd gen bikes, you have mounting options.

Dunno what size the components will be for these new lights, but rest assured that if Warchild and Baja are making these things FJR specific, they'll find a nice spot to mount everything. And when they do, I'll probably extract my Bixenons and put in the new FJR HIDs!!! :yahoo: The PDP may be over, but I'm still a waiter. :yahoo:

OhioFJR1300 · Jan 21, 2007

It would be nice if these could be made so that the major parts could be mounted under the seat or even back by the tail light and the leads to the bulbs could be made long enough to allow that. I'm sure that could work. Time will tell, I guess. :blink:

Warchild · Jan 21, 2007

FJRocket said:
Dunno what size the components will be for these new lights, but rest assured that if Warchild and Baja are making these things FJR specific, they'll find a nice spot to mount everything.

I am working that issue right now, because as you can see below, the ballast for these new hi/lo H4 application are huge indeed.... each is a little under half a foot in length! They will not fit anywhere in the nose of the '03-'05 FJRs, much less the '06+ bikes.

For those who have never taken their nose fairing off, that's the right mirror mount bracket that this massive ballast is temporarily zip-tied to.... :blink:

Bull · Jan 21, 2007

OhioFJR1300 said:
It would be nice if these could be made so that the major parts cpu;d be mounted under the seat or even back by the tail light and the leads to the bulbs coould be made long enough to allow that. I'm sure that could work. Time will tell, I guess. :blink:

Now thsat seems like a clever idea Ohio ...... there"s bags of room under the saddle. Why haven't the other dudes tried that approach? It sure seems like a clean install to have the ballasts under the rider's saddle and then run longer cables up to the front end. Is there some electical consideration related to loom lengths I"m missing?

You have me very curious

slapnpop · Jan 21, 2007

HID's involve HIGH voltage lines from the ballast to the bulb. Long leads of these wires can cause problems, and can also induce large amounts of electrical noise into other wires.

SkooterG · Jan 21, 2007

Bull said:
OhioFJR1300 said:

It would be nice if these could be made so that the major parts cpu;d be mounted under the seat or even back by the tail light and the leads to the bulbs coould be made long enough to allow that. I'm sure that could work. Time will tell, I guess. :blink:

Click to expand...

Now thsat seems like a clever idea Ohio ...... there"s bags of room under the saddle. Why haven't the other dudes tried that approach? It sure seems like a clean install to have the ballasts under the rider's saddle and then run longer cables up to the front end. Is there some electical consideration related to loom lengths I"m missing?

You have me very curious

slapnpop said:
HID's involve HIGH voltage lines from the ballast to the bulb. Long leads of these wires can cause problems, and can also induce large amounts of electrical noise into other wires.

Well, that's exactly how I have done mine. Thanks to vectervp1, he made be a custom metal bracket that attaches to the rear subframe near the tool tray. So the ballasts are residing behind the right side silver colored panel. Great spot for non-abs bikes. No electrical problems with running the wires back and forth.

vectervp1 · Jan 21, 2007

SkooterG said:
Well, that's exactly how I have done mine. Thanks to vectervp1, he made be a custom metal bracket that attaches to the rear subframe near the tool tray. So the ballasts are residing behind the right side silver colored panel. Great spot for non-abs bikes. No electrical problems with running the wires back and forth.

Ahh yes, but thats because the PHID's use D1S bulbs. This means the igniter is part of the bulb assembly. My understanding is most of the high voltage stuff happens between the igniter and the bulb, so there is less noise introduced. With D2R and D2S bulbs the igniter is a separate piece.

So how does all of this relate to H4 rebases you say? Simple. H4 rebase bulbs use D2S or D2R bulbs not D1S bulbs. This means the igniter is separate from the bulb, so your limited in your length.

Now if one was really daring, you could try to extend the wiring between the ballast and the igniter in order to try and stuff that brick somewhere else. Perhaps an empty side case, or a top case, or the top of the rear seat.... those fuckers are BIG! :blink:

OhioFJR1300 · Jan 21, 2007

slapnpop said:
HID's involve HIGH voltage lines from the ballast to the bulb. Long leads of these wires can cause problems, and can also induce large amounts of electrical noise into other wires.

I have worked on large boilers in years past, and at times you have to replace an ignition transformer (10,000 + volts) and this woud require making up a new high voltage lead. Some times that lead would be 4-5 ft long. It never caused a problem on a boiler and most are operated via a controlller that is computer based, so in my mind, it should be possible to locate the ballasts at one end of the bike and the bulbs at the other. I know you can not just splice the high voltage wire, so it woould require the manufacturer to make a "factory" long high voltage wire. Seems like it could be done.

Diver · Jan 22, 2007

OhioFJR1300 said:
slapnpop said:

HID's involve HIGH voltage lines from the ballast to the bulb. Long leads of these wires can cause problems, and can also induce large amounts of electrical noise into other wires.

Click to expand...

I have worked on large boilers in years past, and at times you have to replace an ignition transformer (10,000 + volts) and this woud require making up a new high voltage lead. Some times that lead would be 4-5 ft long. It never caused a problem on a boiler and most are operated via a controlller that is computer based, so in my mind, it should be possible to locate the ballasts at one end of the bike and the bulbs at the other. I know you can not just splice the high voltage wire, so it woould require the manufacturer to make a "factory" long high voltage wire. Seems like it could be done.

Use shielded wiring. it has either a wire braid (insulated to the outside) or a foil wrap inside the insulation. It's a little fetter, and a bit more expensive, but an option to keep down EMI (electromagnetic interference)

Diver

BrunDog · Jan 22, 2007

WC,

What about the bulbs? We can worry about the ballasts, etc. all day long, but if the bulb design sucks MAC (moist *** cheese, your favorite), then what diff does it make? What is the mechanism that moves the arc focal point? Solenoid? Shutters? Magic mirrors? A little squirrel who does it for nuts?

-BD

jestal · Jan 22, 2007

Warchild said:
FJRocket said:

Dunno what size the components will be for these new lights, but rest assured that if Warchild and Baja are making these things FJR specific, they'll find a nice spot to mount everything.

Click to expand...

I am working that issue right now, because as you can see below, the ballast for these new hi/lo H4 application are huge indeed.... each is a little under half a foot in length! They will not fit anywhere in the nose of the '03-'05 FJRs, much less the '06+ bikes.

For those who have never taken their nose fairing off, that's the right mirror mount bracket that this massive ballast is temporarily zip-tied to.... :blink:

Exactly the problem I had with putting four of HID ballasts in my 03. The two driving light ballasts on mine look to be about as big as the one in the picture. You might want to revisit this thread for an alternative mounting position. It has worked quite well so far: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...ernate+mounting

Warchild · Jan 23, 2007

jestal said:
You might want to revisit this thread for an alternative mounting position. It has worked quite well so far: https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...ernate+mounting

Wouldn't fit... these Mamma-Jamma ballast are not quite TWICE the length of a standard HID ballast such as the PHIDs and the '05 Group Buy ballasts. Which isn't surprising, since these puppies are essentially stuffing two ballasts into one container (to run one H4 Hi/Lo bulb).

No, I am going to have to split and extend the shielded cabling so's these Long Boyz can reside under our seats. I've already discussed this with ElectroSport. I can't create a solution that calls for butchering up the side panels (though I wouldn't hesitate in doing that myself; but that approach is unacceptable to ElectroSport). These ballasts are simply not going to fit in the nose without severe modifications, and it's extremely problematic to have them reside in the engine bay area or near the frame.

So they will go aft, and reside in the (relatively) cool area under the pilots seat. Ergo, there is no choice but to extend the shielded cabling between the ballast and the ignitors. This is really not an issue - we do this routinely for the PHIDs - it's only that shielded cable length between the ignitor and HID bulb that can't be altered from stock. It needs to remain no longer than that 9"-10" length as it comes from the factory, since it's carrying that 23,000-volt burst to light off the HID's salt chamber.

FJRocket · Jan 23, 2007

Have them make the ballast wires long enough to reside under the luggage rack inside the tail light housing. On my AE, there is NO room under the seat. Neither seat. Besides the AE computers, I have a Blue Sea and an Autocom under the pilot seat, and a smuggler in the passenger seat. I need MORE mounting options... and good thick shielded wires. Got any ballast dimensions? Of course I'll be hoping I can stuff them under the tank. But just to be sure...

New generation H4 HIDs

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