when to switch to synthetic

slick001 · Sep 7, 2006

I have about 900 miles on my new 2006.

Broke it in relatively hard but not quite red lined, and changed the oil and filter at 50, 300 , and 600 miles.

Is it time to switch to synthetic yet, or put more miles on it first?

Bike Effects · Sep 7, 2006

slick001 said:
I have about 900 miles on my new 2006.Broke it in relatively hard but not quite red lined, and changed the oil and filter at 50, 300 , and 600 miles.

Is it time to switch to synthetic yet, or put more miles on it first?

IMHO, if you are not using oil, the rings have seated and it is time go for it. I have used Mobil 1 in all of my bikes and cars for years with good luck. Shifting has always improved in the bikes.

SkooterG · Sep 7, 2006

Porsches, VWs, and Corvettes all come from the factory with synthetic oil. Why wait at all?

50, 300, and 600?

Wow! And I thought I was anal.

evil_henchman · Sep 7, 2006

On the new high performance engines like the FJR, R1, Porsches, corvetts, ect., I think the rings are seated when they leave the factory. The whole break in thing is to deal with the very rare unit with a manufacturing flaw and chances are your choice of oil won't make a bit of difference if you have one of those.

jestal · Sep 7, 2006

Yea, if you feel you really must use synthetic feel free to switch any time. In addition to the Corvettes, the Cadillac Northstar engines are factory filled with synthetic and they "break in" fine. I have lots of engines put thru lots of abuse on dynos and in cars and have never seen the faintest hint of evidence that synthetic oil will cause problems with breakin. Just doesn't happen.

I think the "don't use synthetic oil for breakin" myth was started by the synthetic oil marketiers to make their product look good....as in "our synthetic lubricates SO GOOD that it will not let the engine break in.." Other than that, I suspect a lot of people tend to follow the idea of not using synthetic for breakin due to the expense when they change it early and often when the engine is new. Funny approach, really, as the time the engine needs the BEST lubrication is during breakin. If you are really concerned about excellent lubrication put the synthetic in at first.

BTW.....the ONLY advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to survive at very high oil temps...like as in 150 C or 305 F. If the engine doesn't run the oil that hot (very very few engines run the oil that hot) then synthetic is pointless. I suspect you will find the FJR runs the oil temp far less than 300 F so synthetic is pointless. It won't hurt anything, it just doesn't do anything conventional oil wouldn't do.

evil_henchman · Sep 7, 2006

jestal said:
BTW.....the ONLY advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to survive at very high oil temps...like as in 150 C or 305 F. If the engine doesn't run the oil that hot (very very few engines run the oil that hot) then synthetic is pointless. I suspect you will find the FJR runs the oil temp far less than 300 F so synthetic is pointless. It won't hurt anything, it just doesn't do anything conventional oil wouldn't do.

I know I'm sticking my willy on the chopping block for saying this but that statement isn't entirely true. It's not false by any means but there are some advantages to "true" synthetics not mentioned.

Synthetics do have better pH buffering ability. In some cases much better meaning they don't turn acidic as quick. Most also don't rely on additives as much to give them multi-viscosity properties. Additives are what wear out, oil doesn't wear out unless you burn it. Which brings us to the high temp thing. Only ester synthetics have the extreme high temperature tolerance and there's more that the reason jestal correctly pointed out as to why they're not the magic bullet for motors that the marketiers would have you believe. Esters were developed specifically for aircraft jet engines and the oil sees rediculously high temperatures. All the bearings on a jet engine are friction free ball and roller types so the oil acts more as a coolant than a lubricant. Solvent like ester base stocks have way more additives than other synthetics to give them mult-viscositys, shear strength, ect. Not good.

I use synthetics only because they last longer between oil changes. Not rediculously longer like some marketiers would have you believe but with a fleet of dirt bikes, I'm happily not changing the oil all the time and all my machines are happy. Some guys change their oil after every ride! What a PITA.

Toecutter · Sep 7, 2006

jestal said:
BTW.....the ONLY advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to survive at very high oil temps...like as in 150 C or 305 F. If the engine doesn't run the oil that hot (very very few engines run the oil that hot) then synthetic is pointless. I suspect you will find the FJR runs the oil temp far less than 300 F so synthetic is pointless. It won't hurt anything, it just doesn't do anything conventional oil wouldn't do.

Okay, that said, how 'bout you reproduce all the argument and facts that used to exist over on EZ Bored but is now extinct? We really need all the info archived here, for all the unfortunates who didn't achieve oil enlightenment back then. I'll start....
What makes you so qualified to make us believe a statement like that? :derisive:

And how can refined crude possibly perform as well as synthetic at temps under 305 F? :derisive: :derisive:

Don't make me ask what all those oil spec. letters are for....

evil_henchman said:
I know I'm sticking my willy on the chopping block for saying this but that statement isn't entirely true. It's not false by any means but there are some advantages to "true" synthetics not mentioned.

Get the popcorn, kids! Here we go!

I use synthetics only because they last longer between oil changes.

That should just about do it.

twowheelnut · Sep 7, 2006

Never.

evil_henchman · Sep 7, 2006

toecutter said:
jestal said:

BTW.....the ONLY advantage of the synthetic products is their ability to survive at very high oil temps...like as in 150 C or 305 F. If the engine doesn't run the oil that hot (very very few engines run the oil that hot) then synthetic is pointless. I suspect you will find the FJR runs the oil temp far less than 300 F so synthetic is pointless. It won't hurt anything, it just doesn't do anything conventional oil wouldn't do.

Click to expand...

Okay, that said, how 'bout you reproduce all the argument and facts that used to exist over on EZ Bored but is now extinct? We really need all the info archived here, for all the unfortunates who didn't achieve oil enlightenment back then. I'll start....
What makes you so qualified to make us believe a statement like that? :derisive:

And how can refined crude possibly perform as well as synthetic at temps under 305 F? :derisive: :derisive:

Don't make me ask what all those oil spec. letters are for....

evil_henchman said:

I know I'm sticking my willy on the chopping block for saying this but that statement isn't entirely true. It's not false by any means but there are some advantages to "true" synthetics not mentioned.

Click to expand...

Get the popcorn, kids! Here we go!

I use synthetics only because they last longer between oil changes.

Click to expand...

That should just about do it.

As my evil plan unfolds BWAAAHAHAHA :lol:

slick001 · Sep 7, 2006

Oops!

leave it up to a FNG to start a "synthetic vs regular oil" debate.

The main reason I was considering switching to synthetic is if their really is an advantage in the shifting gears. Not that I am having any problems, just wanting to do what is best for the bike.

I don't mind taking the time to do more frequent oil changes with the regular motorcycle oil, but if there is a proven advantage to synthetic, be it smoother shifting, or just better lubrication, then that is the route I will go.

To be hones with you, I never have put synthetic in any of my engines, and never had the first problem. But with all the hype about synthetic over the last few years, I was thinking maybe there is something to it???

SkooterG · Sep 7, 2006

I have never noticed any smoother shifting with synthetic oil. And I am skeptical of those who claim they have.

Synthetics are NOT "just better lubrication".

And it is mainly just "hype" when it comes to synthetics. Sure, they are a better oil, but unless your racing, have a turbocharger, or are doing something else where you need to take advantage of the higher temp advantages, you aren't actually using any of their benefits.

Here we go...........

evil_henchman said:
Additives are what wear out, oil doesn't wear out unless you burn it.
I use synthetics only because they last longer between oil changes.

Well, if the anti-wear additives are wearing out, why would you say that the oil lasts longer between oil changes?

Scab · Sep 7, 2006

I will make this simple. This is the definative answer that cannot be scientifically disputed:

I use synthetic because I like it and it makes me happy.

SkooterG · Sep 7, 2006

Scab said:
I will make this simple. This is the definative answer that cannot be scientifically disputed:
I use synthetic because I like it and it makes me happy.

Ahhhhhhhhhh.................

Finally an assertion in an oil thread that is 100% correct and cannot be disputed.

nidan · Sep 7, 2006

Anytime past 600 for me

TheRepairMan · Sep 7, 2006

The best thing about using Synthetic oil in your bike is that if you put 500,000 miles on it when you tear it down for a rebuild you won't get your hands dirty, but then again you may not have to tear it down so soon!

First oil change, 90 miles. I switched to fully synthetic Mobil MX4T at 500 miles, my third change on the FZ1. It will protect it years longer IMO. Modern engine tolerances are so fine there really isn't a long break in like there was years ago.

Roger

twowheelnut · Sep 7, 2006

SkooterG said:
Scab said:

I will make this simple. This is the definative answer that cannot be scientifically disputed:

I use synthetic because I like it and it makes me happy.

Click to expand...

Ahhhhhhhhhh.................

Finally an assertion in an oil thread that is 100% correct and cannot be disputed.

You may not be able to dispute the comment, but surely one can dispute the source as being less than, um, sane - hence rendering said comment irrelevant. I betcha he especially likes it with a copy of ****s and Beavers in hand...

:grin:

evil_henchman · Sep 7, 2006

SkooterG said:
I have never noticed any smoother shifting with synthetic oil. And I am skeptical of those who claim they have.
Synthetics are NOT "just better lubrication".

And it is mainly just "hype" when it comes to synthetics. Sure, they are a better oil, but unless your racing, have a turbocharger, or are doing something else where you need to take advantage of the higher temp advantages, you aren't actually using any of their benefits.

Here we go...........

evil_henchman said:

Additives are what wear out, oil doesn't wear out unless you burn it.

I use synthetics only because they last longer between oil changes.

Click to expand...

Well, if the anti-wear additives are wearing out, why would you say that the oil lasts longer between oil changes?

SkooterG I surprised at you. You didn't read the part where I said most synthetics don't rely <as much> on additives?? Shame on you! I made finished blends for Chevron refining in a prior life so I'm not completely full of **** :lol:

SkooterG · Sep 7, 2006

evil_henchman said:
SkooterG I surprised at you. You didn't read the part where I said most synthetics don't rely <as much> on additives?? Shame on you! I made finished blends for Chevron refining in a prior life so I'm not completely full of **** :lol:

Ack!!! I am surprised at you!!!! You didn't pick up my direct reference to anti-wear additives, specifically ZDP. Even syns need the anti-wear additives, and when they are all used up I don't care how good your base oil is, your gonna start wearing the important ****. Where the fook did Jestal go anyways? All I am doing is regurgitating all that I learned from him.

Agreed. You're not completely full of ****. But that leaves exactly how full of **** are you? up for discussion, now doesn't it?

:****:

evil_henchman · Sep 7, 2006

SkooterG said:
evil_henchman said:

SkooterG I surprised at you. You didn't read the part where I said most synthetics don't rely <as much> on additives?? Shame on you! I made finished blends for Chevron refining in a prior life so I'm not completely full of **** :lol:

Click to expand...

Ack!!! I am surprised at you!!!! You didn't pick up my direct reference to anti-wear additives, specifically ZDP. Even syns need the anti-wear additives, and when they are all used up I don't care how good your base oil is, your gonna start wearing the important ****. Where the fook did Jestal go anyways? All I am doing is regurgitating all that I learned from him.

Agreed. You're not completely full of ****. But that leaves exactly how full of **** are you? up for discussion, now doesn't it?

:****:

All additives are "anti-wear" which is just another industry buzz word for what we used to call shear strength by the way. Synthetics just have more inherent "anti-wear" properties assuming your not running a wide viscosity spread of course. But I'm sure you already knew that....

when to switch to synthetic

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