Starcom1 Advance PTT-03 VOX Inhibit issue

I am starting a new thread to track and address this specific issue, which has come up in another recent thread. Please do not chime in with how your XYZ brand intercom is superior to the Starcom. If you feel a need to voice that, please find another thread to do so, or else start your own thread.

Thank you.

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Many of you who have a Starcom1 Advance have expressed dismay that the PTT-03 (Press To Talk) accessory switch does not inhibit the VOX feature from keying your Bike-to-bike radio transmitter like it is supposed to. I too have been struggling with this problem since buying my Starcom1 Advance system.

I have been working through Jeff from Bike Effects (a great guy and one of the best farkle vendors out there) and he has been dealing with Starcom. Jeff told me that the original PTT-03's had this problem, that the VOX would still key-on the transmitter, and that Starcom had worked through it and got some to work properly. But now it appears they have "lost the recipie" or something because the same problem is back. Starcom believes the problem is some sort of tolerance problem between the Advance boxes and the resistor added to the PTT-03.

Jeff initially sent me a second PTT-03 to try, but that one behaved identically to the first. So now Starcom suggested that he (Jeff) try a PTT-03 on his own Advance unit as a test before shipping it out to me. I have a feeling that when Jeff tests the PTT-03's on his system they won't work either.

In preparation for that I have opened up the PTT-03 boxes (4 screws top release the cover) and also measured the pin to pin resistances. Here's the pin-out of the connector (letters assigned arbitrarily) :



I measured:

Open A-B, goes to short when PTT is pressed.

They both measured exactly 2.65k ohms (on a Fluke 8020B digital Multimeter) between C and D regardless of the PTT switch position.

I observed one 1/16th watt 2.7k ohm 5% tolerance resistor ( Red Violet Red space Gold) inside the PTT-03 boxes.

The measured values are within 5% of the stated, so I guess the resistors are OK.

Does anyone have one of the "fully functional" PTT-03s? (meaning one that inhibit VOX transmit)

If so, can you get a resistance reading on C-D?

If Jeff is able to find one that works when I receive that, I will test it and then measure it and report the value. If he tells me he cannot find one that works I'll be cutting one of these resistors out and soldering in a potentiometer to see if I can find the magic resistance value required to make this thing work the way it is supposed to.

Jeff just loaned me his advance as mine had some problems that he, starcom and I spent a lot of time troubleshooting. I can tell you that the ptt-03 does work with Jeff's advance. How it appears to work is vox puts your radio in tx, but does not allow audio through to the radio. My radio goes into tx but shows no signal strength when activated by vox. My origional, defective advance did not work with the ptt-03, vox still put the radio into tx and I could transmit. I tested my resistor and the values you stated sound close to what I had.

Hey Fred, I don't know where I heard this...or maybe dreamed it B) but i thought the ptt-03 only disabled the vox functions on later units. My advance was certainly newer than Jeff's though.

jekirby said:

Jeff just loaned me his advance as mine had some problems that he, starcom and I spent a lot of time troubleshooting. I can tell you that the ptt-03 does work with Jeff's advance. How it appears to work is vox puts your radio in tx, but does not allow audio through to the radio. My radio goes into tx but shows no signal strength when activated by vox. My origional, defective advance did not work with the ptt-03, vox still put the radio into tx and I could transmit. I tested my resistor and the values you stated sound close to what I had.

Click to expand...

What? This is new information.

You are saying that the way the Starcom "engineers" (using the term loosely) have designed the PTT-03 to defeat the VOX on the bike-to-bike is to still allow the VOX to key-on the transmitter, but inhibit the audio signal?

If that is that case then mine may already have been working that way. It's still a problem because when my transmitter keys on it emits a big "BEEP", which both my wife and I hear. But that "Alert Beep" feature may be something that can be turned off in the GMRS radio.

It also stinks because even though there is no audio it will be draining the battery of the transceiver (I don't have power wired in). Hmmm. This is certainly a new development which requires some additional consideration and verification from Starcom.

If this is the way it is supposed to work, I will not be happy. :glare:

jekirby said:

Hey Fred, I don't know where I heard this...or maybe dreamed it B) but i thought the ptt-03 only disabled the vox functions on later units. My advance was certainly newer than Jeff's though.

Click to expand...

The PTT-03 does not work or apply to the new "Digitals". It is still supposed to work on the current production Advance units.

Thanks very much jekirby.

Fred W said:

The PTT-03 does not work or apply to the new "Digitals". It is still supposed to work on the current production Advance units.

Click to expand...

Actually, the PTT-03 does work on the Digitals, at least it does on mine. Just wish I could get the freaking thing to work on my Advance...

Keep me updated on how this works out. I will be interested to hear if this is how it really works......as I said, it appears to work that way. It may not be draining the batteries as much as you think. I show no signal power, so the lcd display on my radio just shows a different icon. Just a thought......

As a fellow at starcom verified, the way the radios go into tx is that it(radio) sees mic in the circuit and goes into tx. He said that starcom does not support radios that have the mic button activate a relay that in turn activates tx. My feeling is that the resistor keeps the radio from seeing the mic in the circuit. It that were the case, why the resistor? Couldn't you just remove the resistor and have an open circuit? Oh well, I'm not an EE. Keep me updated, I'm interested.

ADD>>>>>I don't know if you have already, but I called Starcom and a Mr. Jones (I think that is what I remember) was very helpful. He and I on the phone had the most success.

Fred W said:

You are saying that the way the Starcom "engineers" (using the term loosely) have designed the PTT-03 to defeat the VOX on the bike-to-bike is to still allow the VOX to key-on the transmitter, but inhibit the audio signal?

Click to expand...

Could you rephrase that question?

Neil San Diego said:

Fred W said:

The PTT-03 does not work or apply to the new "Digitals". It is still supposed to work on the current production Advance units.

Click to expand...

Actually, the PTT-03 does work on the Digitals, at least it does on mine. Just wish I could get the freaking thing to work on my Advance...

Click to expand...

PTT-03 does work on a Digital, but the resistor that inhibits the Radio VOX does not do anything on the Digital. There is a setting for that on the Digital. You can use a PTT-01, PTT-02 or a PTT-03 on a Digital.

Bike Effects said:

Fred W said:

You are saying that the way the Starcom "engineers" (using the term loosely) have designed the PTT-03 to defeat the VOX on the bike-to-bike is to still allow the VOX to key-on the transmitter, but inhibit the audio signal?

Click to expand...

Could you rephrase that question?

Click to expand...

How the ptt-03 works (on your advance with my radio) is that with the ptt-03 connected and vox turned up to an appropriate level, the display on the radio 'flips' to the transmit screen/icon but the signal strength meter shows zero transmit strength...and nothing transmits. When the button is depressed, the display indicates transmit and the signal strength meter 'pegs' thus showing something is being transmitted and the other guy hears me. I guess the question FredW is asking....is this how the fine folks as Starcom intended it to work? B)

Thanks Jeff.

jekirby said:

Bike Effects said:

Fred W said:

You are saying that the way the Starcom "engineers" (using the term loosely) have designed the PTT-03 to defeat the VOX on the bike-to-bike is to still allow the VOX to key-on the transmitter, but inhibit the audio signal?

Click to expand...

Could you rephrase that question?

Click to expand...

How the ptt-03 works (on your advance with my radio) is that with the ptt-03 connected and vox turned up to an appropriate level, the display on the radio 'flips' to the transmit screen/icon but the signal strength meter shows zero transmit strength...and nothing transmits. When the button is depressed, the display indicates transmit and the signal strength meter 'pegs' thus showing something is being transmitted and the other guy hears me. I guess the question FredW is asking....is this how the fine folks as Starcom intended it to work? B)

Thanks Jeff.

Click to expand...

Yes, that's it. Thanks Kirby.

On my GMRS radios (using the Motorola Talkabout T5720) there is a red led that comes on when transmitting. It also emits a loud attention tone "BEEP!" each time the PTT is released. Not when the PTT is depressed, but when it is released.

The way my unit has been working if I have the VOX dialed up to the appropriate level and the PTT-03 hooked up is the GMRS radio's transmit light flashes on and off at about 1-2 second intervals whenever I am speaking to my passenger. Each time it flashes off there is the loud beep over the headset and it mutes all other audio. I also know that this beep is being transmitted and received by other GMRS radios in the area (annoying). But I never checked to see if my voice audio was being suppressed.

I assumed that the starcom engineers would have designed the PTT-3 to inhibit the PTT function, not just block the audio. FRS/GMRS utilizes Frequency Modulation (FM), therefore it is transmitting full power even when not being modulated. So (theoretically at least) it will drain the transmitter's battery to be constantly transmitting blanks.

I am certain that my attention tone can be turned off, and I will try running mine this way too.

OK, I have turned off my attention tone feature and it is a lot better. First, I adjusted the VOX control to just suppress the music when I speak at a normal level. Then, when I speak and the VOX circuit activates, it keys the GMRS transmitter on for about 1 second (as evidenced by the red xmit LED), and then it keys off. No beeps. So that seems a little better.

Just for grins I tried unplugging the PTT-03 to see what full VOX capability was like. Funny thing was it behaved pretty much the same way. In other words, it keys the transmitter on for only about 1 second and then off.

Then I tried cranking up the VOX sensitivity with the PTT-03 still disconnected and the higher I adjusted it the longer it would stay keyed while continuously talking. It still allows the transmitter to key off in mid-sentence though, so I do not see this as being a very useful feature at all.

Finally, with the VOX sensitivity cranked up high I replugged the PTT-003 into the Advance box and cycled power on everything (just in case the power up state mattered) and guess what, it still transmitted my voice to the other radio.

My take on this is the resistor in the PTT-03 is not doing anything. I could use this by ensuring that VOX is set to the minimum level necessary. It will, however, transmit short burst anytime the VOX activates and this may get to be annoying to anyone riding with me as their FRS radios will unsquelch and this will mute their music.

So we still need to know what the intended design of the PTT-03 is supposed to do. How is it supposed to behave?

I wish there was a way to go inside the unit and cut a run or disconnect something to completely disable the VOX from keying the PTT, but not effecting the muting of the music.

At this point I will have to continue to use it with the VOX set to zero and just shout at my passenger over the music.

jekirby said:

Bike Effects said:

Fred W said:

You are saying that the way the Starcom "engineers" (using the term loosely) have designed the PTT-03 to defeat the VOX on the bike-to-bike is to still allow the VOX to key-on the transmitter, but inhibit the audio signal?

Click to expand...

Could you rephrase that question?

Click to expand...

How the ptt-03 works (on your advance with my radio) is that with the ptt-03 connected and vox turned up to an appropriate level, the display on the radio 'flips' to the transmit screen/icon but the signal strength meter shows zero transmit strength...and nothing transmits. When the button is depressed, the display indicates transmit and the signal strength meter 'pegs' thus showing something is being transmitted and the other guy hears me. I guess the question FredW is asking....is this how the fine folks as Starcom intended it to work? B)

Thanks Jeff.

Click to expand...

That would be a question for Starcom.

I have experimented with various values of the resistor in the PTT-03 setup. I've never been able to accomplish any appreciable change in the unit's VOX setting with different resistor values, so I also concluded that the PTT-03 is no different than PTT-01 etc. It all comes down to having A PTT, and being willing to disable VOX. I simply don't use VOX and tolerate the need to speak over top of music. Most of the time I'm wearing out my Zumo's Master Audio setting.

All this was determined while making my own, shorter and smaller version of a PTT-03. See this thread Personally improved PTT-03.

HaulinAshe said:

I have experimented with various values of the resistor in the PTT-03 setup. I've never been able to accomplish any appreciable change in the unit's VOX setting with different resistor values, so I also concluded that the PTT-03 is no different than PTT-01 etc. It all comes down to having A PTT, and being willing to disable VOX. I simply don't use VOX and tolerate the need to speak over top of music. Most of the time I'm wearing out my Zumo's Master Audio setting.
All this was determined while making my own, shorter and smaller version of a PTT-03. See this thread Personally improved PTT-03.

Click to expand...

Jeff,

I'm interested in what values of resistor you tried.

If I go down this path eventually, I was thinking of using a potentiometer to find the "magic value" then replace with a small fixed resistor. But before I do this I'll probably start a dialog with Starcom Engineering and see exactly what they expect the resistor to do for you.

Fred W said:

HaulinAshe said:

I have experimented with various values of the resistor in the PTT-03 setup. I've never been able to accomplish any appreciable change in the unit's VOX setting with different resistor values, so I also concluded that the PTT-03 is no different than PTT-01 etc. It all comes down to having A PTT, and being willing to disable VOX. I simply don't use VOX and tolerate the need to speak over top of music. Most of the time I'm wearing out my Zumo's Master Audio setting.
All this was determined while making my own, shorter and smaller version of a PTT-03. See this thread Personally improved PTT-03.

Click to expand...

Jeff,

I'm interested in what values of resistor you tried.

If I go down this path eventually, I was thinking of using a potentiometer to find the "magic value" then replace with a small fixed resistor. But before I do this I'll probably start a dialog with Starcom Engineering and see exactly what they expect the resistor to do for you.

Click to expand...

"Most of the time I'm wearing out my Zumo's Master Audio setting"

ROFLMAO Jeff.

JW

I would think that there could conceivably be different magic resistor values for each radio design. What Mr. Jones told me was that the resistor value was not critical, just in the 2K+ range.

jekirby said:

I would think that there could conceivably be different magic resistor values for each radio design. What Mr. Jones told me was that the resistor value was not critical, just in the 2K+ range.

Click to expand...

I don't think so. I mean, I don't think it should matter what GMRS radio is being used. Whatever radio it is, if it gets the PTT signal to "transmit" from the VOX circuit, that is what it is going to do.

My feeling is that (if it is a) tolerance issue, it would be with the Starcom1 Advance box itself and the PTT-03.

BTW, talked with Jeff again yesterday and he hand tested another PTT-03 on his Starcom1 Advance box. He said the unit does not transmit from VOX when he uses that PTT. He is sending it to me to test with my set-up. With Jeff's help, we will get to the bottom of this.

I tested from 470 ohms to 10k in a few increments of resistors I had on-hand. Admittedly, I did not spend a lot of time testing because nothing seemed to make the VOX setting work anywhere close to how I envisioned it.

HaulinAshe said:

I tested from 470 ohms to 10k in a few increments of resistors I had on-hand. Admittedly, I did not spend a lot of time testing because nothing seemed to make the VOX setting work anywhere close to how I envisioned it.

Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff. I will keep you posted on how this works out.

While it's not unbearable, it isn't how I envisioned the unit was going to work either.