Keyless gas cap available for 05?
- Thread starter Specter
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Wicked Webby
Right is Harder than Wrong.
Lake Powell
Well-known member
Ok Kids, here we go with some more photos. Hopefully this will answer some of the questions out there.
Cap on the bike looking down:
Close up, as much as the camera will do:
Cap is off the bike, looking into the tank:
Holding the cap, you can see the 2 O-rings to seal the cap:
One last pic of the cockpit:
The cap takes one full rotation to fully close, the O-ring binds just enough to insure it will not come loose.
I know these aren't the best pics, but it's the best I can come with.
Hopefully this helps.
Cap on the bike looking down:
Close up, as much as the camera will do:
Cap is off the bike, looking into the tank:
Holding the cap, you can see the 2 O-rings to seal the cap:
One last pic of the cockpit:
The cap takes one full rotation to fully close, the O-ring binds just enough to insure it will not come loose.
I know these aren't the best pics, but it's the best I can come with.
Hopefully this helps.
How does the tank vent with that cap?
In the stock set-up there is a check valve affair built into the cap which provides a pressure relief path from the tank to the vent line at the (infamous) orange rubber grommet. Perhaps more important than the pressure relief is the fact that in the other direction it allows vacuum relief. Is the tank open underneath the new plate that the cap screws into, to the vent line where the orange grommet would be on the stock cap?
[edit] OK, more info. I went to the web site you linked to earlier and it talks about a tiny hole. I think I can see it in one of the pictures. So, that tiny hole must line up with the vent that the orange grommet would mate with, correct? Which would mean that the tank is wide open vented (no pressure relief valve).
Not that I think there's anything wrong with that. In fact it may end up being a positive. There should be no gas geysers and no imploded tanks with this setup since the tank is neither pressurized nor under vacuum with an open vent line.
In the stock set-up there is a check valve affair built into the cap which provides a pressure relief path from the tank to the vent line at the (infamous) orange rubber grommet. Perhaps more important than the pressure relief is the fact that in the other direction it allows vacuum relief. Is the tank open underneath the new plate that the cap screws into, to the vent line where the orange grommet would be on the stock cap?
[edit] OK, more info. I went to the web site you linked to earlier and it talks about a tiny hole. I think I can see it in one of the pictures. So, that tiny hole must line up with the vent that the orange grommet would mate with, correct? Which would mean that the tank is wide open vented (no pressure relief valve).
Not that I think there's anything wrong with that. In fact it may end up being a positive. There should be no gas geysers and no imploded tanks with this setup since the tank is neither pressurized nor under vacuum with an open vent line.
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Lake Powell
Well-known member
In the picture with the cap off looking down, what the picture doesn't show is a very small vent hole, about 1/16" diameter. As I said earlier there has been no issue in the engine operation even with various fuel levels and large elevation changes. In my opinion the stock cap is overly complex or it is required that way to meet some pointless EPA mandate for gas caps. Even when removing the cap there is never any hissing or sound of air movement so there must be some other way that the tank is vented. I suspect it is through the hose that comes off the bottom of the tank near the rear?
Thanks, I was in process of editing my prior post when you posted. As I said above, with an open vent (no pressure building relief valve) this may be the biggest benefit of all.
Specter
Well-known member
I just changed out the gas cap for a nice unit for sale on eBay for about $50 shipped. It was listed for the R1 and other Yamahas. Here is a picture of the finished product in place. The fit and finish are excellent. the gas cap has an O-ring around the edge, and the filler neck has a rubber gasket that mates to the tank. There is a vent system in the base.
More detailed photos of the cap and installation here:
Gas Cap web shots
Update: 7-14-09
After using the cap for a while, I took it off and replaced the original. Although it was easier to open, it was more fiddly to fill, and splashed back fuel more often.
More detailed photos of the cap and installation here:
Gas Cap web shots
Update: 7-14-09
After using the cap for a while, I took it off and replaced the original. Although it was easier to open, it was more fiddly to fill, and splashed back fuel more often.
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Thanks for the detailed pictures, Spectre. It looks like your cap vents through those two small holes to the left side of the picture below, then under that plate to the open vent line and drain lines of the tank. What's up with the two holes though? It looks like (at least) one of them has some sort of a brass fitting pressed into it? Actually, since there is no seal between the base of that plate and the top of the tank could it possibly vent all the way around the outside? And what keep fuel from taking that same path?
What I'm really interested in knowing is if the vent holes are just always open to atmosphere through the vent lines. I'm interested in knowing that as I'm considering modifying the internals of the stock cap to get rid of the pressure/check valve, since that has been suspected of cause gas geysers and tank implosions.
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Specter
Well-known member
From what I can tell, that little brass fitting is a check valve vent. I think the original breathes through that red rubber seal. With the replacement, the tank just breathes through the open space under the cap base. It appears the tank vent is to the left of the filler neck at 9 o'clock, and the drain is behind it at 6 o'clock. I might have them backwards, but the important thing it that air can enter and escape the tank. The replacement is probably more susceptible to water entry, but not much.
What I'm really interested in knowing is if the vent holes are just always open to atmosphere through the vent lines. I'm interested in knowing that as I'm considering modifying the internals of the stock cap to get rid of the pressure/check valve, since that has been suspected of cause gas geysers and tank implosions.
SouthernCruizer
Is it Beer:30 yet?
SouthernCruizer
Is it Beer:30 yet?
*************************************************************A little too blingy for me - and it would snag on my tank bagIf'n ya wanna git real radical, why not go for this one? All ya gotta do is look down, and you can see if'n ya got petrol in da tank. :blink:
CLICKY
I can't do anything about the blingy thingie, but I'll not sleep again until I find you a clear tank bag to match your soon to be purchased clear gas cap (I KNOW you wanna buy it, just do it!!). Just think, when you are cruising down da hiway, all ya gotta do is look down, and you can see all the goodies in your tank bag! :yahoo:
squeezer
Squirrelly Geezer
I ordered the same one. Thanks, Specter, for doing the research and tracking this down. You just helped me eliminate one step in my rally gas stop procedure. :yahoo:
I'll confess that I like the looks of LP's cap a little better, but not $100 better. Thanks for that tip too, though.
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RenoJohn
Well-known member
ain't that the grooviest thing ever.
I just need to verify that it doesn't stick up (too much) ...as to interfere with a soft-bottom tank bag.
Eager to order one of these nifty things.
Thanks for the heads-up on this Fred W.
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RenoJohn
Well-known member
I finally pulled the trigger on this. wanted to for weeks but couldn't find good pricing on the Oberon cap ..seemed everyone wants full retail ......but finally some guyz out of Sacramento stepped up with acceptable pricing.
I debated on colors down to the last second and finally went with black base and titanium cap. Perhaps not as much bling as stainless all around but I like it:
....now to see how well it vents .....and I also will run a small cable to secure it so I don't lose it at the gas pump.
I debated on colors down to the last second and finally went with black base and titanium cap. Perhaps not as much bling as stainless all around but I like it:
....now to see how well it vents .....and I also will run a small cable to secure it so I don't lose it at the gas pump.
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RJ,
Can you show some additional pics of the bottom of that cap, how it seals to the tank and how it vents? I'm a bit concerned since the stock cap vents the tank through the cap itself, and that one seems to be a solid billet of alloy.
Can you show some additional pics of the bottom of that cap, how it seals to the tank and how it vents? I'm a bit concerned since the stock cap vents the tank through the cap itself, and that one seems to be a solid billet of alloy.
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RenoJohn
Well-known member
Fred, it *seems* these folks have done their homework on the venting. It is the same design for Ducati, MV Agusta and Yamaha.
From my pre-purchase research, a few guys with the MV Agusta had issues because of an OEM rubber piece being squished but that is easily remedied and not an issue with the yamaha and ducati
The base has a vent hole that I've circled in Red:
The cap has two O-ring seals, one at the bottom ..and you'll see this will seal outside of the vent hold in the base
-and another up top that I'd guess is more for outside moisture/elements working their way in. I've put a dab of red on them for your viewing pleasure.
The hole you see in the bottom of the cap is not a vent, I'm guessing it's a hole to secure a cable so you don't lose it at the pump -might even be pre-threaded.
I'm no positive that this is going to be venting utopia, but it is obvious that the folks put some thought into it and it sure makes a lot more sense to me than the wacky (and proven defective) venting scheme on the OEM cap. I'm taking a run out to Utah later this week -the trip should have the ingredients that we've seen in past venting failures: hot, elevation, hard running, aux fuel yada yada .....I'm debating about whether to pack the old cap just-in-case.
Misc comments:
The quality is very good, the weight is non-existent (probably easy to lose at the pump, the wind could blow it away!) The look is very good with options on colors and best of all no F$cking key!!!
Also, should this thing be prone to venting failure, temp/roadside solution should be as easy as sticking a rag in the hole, something not easily done on the OEM cap, especially if running a tank bag.
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Looks good. So how about underneath the base piece? I assume that the vent hole just open to both the vent and overflow vent lines below? If so, I don't foresee any venting problems.
RenoJohn
Well-known member
There is a gasket that fits between the fill-neck and the new base -it keeps fuel where it needs to be.
-->Correct, the vent is open to the overflow and vent lines.
Fred to me it seems like a golden solution and free of the drama associated with the OEM scheme. For others it is working fine and it passes the common sense test.
But I'll be more comfortable with it after logging a few thousand miles on it under tough conditions. By this time next week we should know much more.
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Yup, I agree. For anyone doing lots of rallying and LD riding a keyless cap would be a big boon.
I'll keep my stock castrated, keyed cap mostly because when I have it parked somewhere I don't want any jealous miscreants putting any **** into my gas tank.
I'd say your keyless cap will vent at least as good as my castrated one, maybe better.
I'll keep my stock castrated, keyed cap mostly because when I have it parked somewhere I don't want any jealous miscreants putting any **** into my gas tank.
I'd say your keyless cap will vent at least as good as my castrated one, maybe better.
