Another Burnt Wiring Harness?

On the way home tonight, way past dark, switched from low beams to high beams and blink out go all the lights. Fortunately, was on a familiar dirt road back to the Hondarosa, so no issue of getting run over or missing a turn.

Still, this is getting really old. My FJR has let me down, seriously down, 2 times now. Once with ignition switch in Death Valley, another with burnt spider ground in Paso (after dark, flat bed truck home) and now this.

I made it 3 miles home in the dark holding a small flashlight with my left hand while riding on a goopy wet slippery dirt road; took all my skills to to not dump several times in the mud. Did I mention it was really dark?

About 5-10 minutes later, same dirt road, slowly making it home, boom, back on they come like nothing is wrong. Now I can't get it to fail again. I'm losing faith in this platform.

Enough of the emotional, now for the troubleshooting facts.

Conditions and Symptoms

1. Bumpy dirty wet road

2. Electric vest, gloves, Zumo 550, StarComm on - I had just looked at X50 voltmeter, 13.7 steady

3. No other loads (HID Solteks, cooling fans, etc)

4. Switched from low to regular high beams (no Soltek HID's)

5. Headlights go out. Switching from hi to low and back and forth - nothing.

6. Bike still running, marker lights, tail lights, instrument back lights ok.

7. Both turn signal lights slightly on, about 70% of max illumination. Turning left/right blinker on activated blinker and small increase in blinker indicator brightness. Emergency flasher same behavior.

8. Windshield up/down inoperable.

9. Voltage with key on, engine off, all loads disconnected (vest/gloves) 12.8

10. Cycle ignition key ~ 5 times, no change, same behavior as 6, 7, 8. Bike cranks normal, needles sweep, fuel pump pressurizers rail, all normal except no freaking headlights, hi or lo beam.

11. Ride home using flashlight, about 5 or 8 or 10 minutes later, still riding, headlights come back on.

12. No sense of 'electrical burning' smell - but I couldn't get off the bike to sniff around as the ground was way too soft for the sidestand to support - so I was stuck 'on the bike'.

13. Back at the ranch, all works great. Energized all loads (Widder vest, TourMaster gloves, HID lights, let engine heat to point cooling fans engaged, no problems, hi and low beam work fine.

14. Voltage on X85 12.6 at idle under full load (see above) to 13.7 or so when fans kick off. House load (no accessories) = 14.2, .3. .1 at approx 4.5 to 5k rpm.

15. New battery installed less than 4 weeks ago.

16. HID Soltek lights powered via relay, triggered off high beam wire. IIRC, it's an 'AutoSwitch' relay.

17. All other accessories powered of relay and Blue Seas block.

18. Both power relays grounded via frame connection. (This is about to change.. :angry: )

19. Wiring harness replaced approx what, 6 months ago? At that time all spider grounds cleaned, coated with dilectric grease.

20. Ignition switch replaced by Yamaha new, at that time Brodie relay installed.

I'll look further tomorrow - but sure could use some great advice from those of you who can read schematics and what not. My gut feeling is either a failing relay (OEM hi/lo headlight and/or AutoSwitch or another harness/spider ground burn out.

Good luck Don. Keep us updated.

Don if I had to guess, based on the symptoms you describe what I've read others say coupled with the intermittent nature of the fault, I would say it's likely the ground spider under the left headlight.

I'm soldering all of mine as we speak, and mine were perfect last time I checked and greased them, but that didn't stop one from failing without warning.

As the IBR guys always say, it's a good idea to have a manual switch and independent wiring on the aux lights, maybe worth adding a toggle switch for the Solteks in parallel with the autoswitch?

Don, were the connectors - ALL of them - coated with dielectric grease? Not just the spider grounds?

JamesK said:

Don if I had to guess, based on the symptoms you describe what I've read others say coupled with the intermittent nature of the fault, I would say it's likely the ground spider under the left headlight.I'm soldering all of mine as we speak, and mine were perfect last time I checked and greased them, but that didn't stop one from failing without warning.

As the IBR guys always say, it's a good idea to have a manual switch and independent wiring on the aux lights, maybe worth adding a toggle switch for the Solteks in parallel with the autoswitch?

Click to expand...

I think you're right about the spider. Here's mine from before -

kaitsdad said:

Don, were the connectors - ALL of them - coated with dielectric grease? Not just the spider grounds?

Click to expand...

Hal, no, not all. When the plastic was off I did all connections I could easily get to and cleaned / applied dielectric grease, but not all.

Applying dielectric grease doesn't stop them from failing. I don't remember who, but someone went through all their spider connectors, cleaning and greasing them and STILL had one fail.

Damn dude, you sure are hard on that bike. I am thinking it's YOUR fault, and not the poor FJR's. :****:

Tell you what, I got a nice, gently used Gen I FJR with only 219,000 miles that runs like a top. I'll give you a great deal on it!

And did I miss something? Why no Solteks? Iffin cause they failed with your headlights, than your a bleepin *****! Wire aux lights independetly!

SkooterG said:

Applying dielectric grease doesn't stop them from failing. I don't remember who, but someone went through all their spider connectors, cleaning and greasing them and STILL had one fail.
Damn dude, you sure are hard on that bike. I am thinking it's YOUR fault, and not the poor FJR's. :****:

Tell you what, I got a nice, gently used Gen I FJR with only 219,000 miles that runs like a top. I'll give you a great deal on it!

And did I miss something? Why no Solteks? Iffin cause they failed with your headlights, than your a bleepin *****! Wire aux lights independetly!

Click to expand...

I'd be interested in buying your gently ridden and highly loved 219k runs like a top FJR, but I don't need no FlipperMobiles :****:
Oh, the Solteks, they trigger off the high beam wire on the OEM lights - so, yes, :****: head, you're right - they should be independently wired. This is 2x now, guess I'll have to rewire this time. I know, you have nothing better to do, and all the time in the world, why don't you do it for me? :rofl:

Obviously it could have been something other than a spider problem, perhaps the headlight enable relay or the fuse that is at fault.

When it failed the first time was your harness replaced or did you solder the affected spider out of circuit? Has there ever been a report of a different failed Spider?

ALL of your lighting went out? Even the Soltecs? For safety's sake the relay coil should be wired ahead of the hi-low relay switching or better yet they should come on immediately with the ignition switch, which is how I presently have my Hella Micro DE Xenons wired.

I've been wanting to replace the single throw switch I use to switch on my driving lights with a double throw, center-off one that allows me to leave them off, to tie them to the high beams or to have them come on with the ignition switch, giving me the choice, and in the event of a failure, because the lighting wiring all goes straight to the battery, if the main lights failed, I could bypass the internal wiring and the driving lights would still work . . . . .

When you know the cause, and if it is a corrosion issue (rather than an intermittent fuse or bad relay), please update the official thread. And If you have not as yet done so, click the link below to file your complaint with the NHTSA. Note that if this is indeed a second failure, you should file a second report.

Note that some of the newer filings were non-specific and could be mistaken for ignition failure reports.

[SIZE=18pt]BE CERTAIN YOU SPECIFY THAT THERE WAS A FAILURE OF AN ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR IN THE WIRING HARNESS DUE TO OVERHEATING[/SIZE]

Someone WILL get hurt if this doesn't get resolved, if only because they drop their bike on themselves when the problem occurs, but it can be a lot worse. And if someone is killed, you can be certain that they'll never figure out that it was due to a grounding problem because bike accidents aren't investigated the way plane crashes are.

[SIZE=18pt]We have to protect ourselves.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]So please get out there and file at [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]www.safercar.gov[/SIZE]

dcarver said:

Oh, the Solteks, they trigger off the high beam wire on the OEM lights - so, yes, :****: head, you're right - they should be independently wired. This is 2x now, guess I'll have to rewire this time. I know, you have nothing better to do, and all the time in the world, why don't you do it for me? :rofl:

Click to expand...

If they have their own fused connection to battery and just use the relay to activate, then they are independantly wired. If they actually use the headlight circuit for power, then they need to be changed.

If they're grounded the same place as everything else up there, that might be worth changing too. Nice big black wire to the battery.

As for your actual question, why'd it go dark, I'm not much help there, don't have much GenII reference material.

wfooshee said:

dcarver said:

Oh, the Solteks, they trigger off the high beam wire on the OEM lights - so, yes, :****: head, you're right - they should be independently wired. This is 2x now, guess I'll have to rewire this time. I know, you have nothing better to do, and all the time in the world, why don't you do it for me? :rofl:

Click to expand...

If they have their own fused connection to battery and just use the relay to activate, then they are independantly wired. If they actually use the headlight circuit for power, then they need to be changed.

If they're grounded the same place as everything else up there, that might be worth changing too. Nice big black wire to the battery.

As for your actual question, why'd it go dark, I'm not much help there, don't have much GenII reference material.

Click to expand...

I believe Don has his wired as mine is. He uses the Hi/Low switch circuit just to power the relay to his Solteks. The main power to the Solteks is otherwise independent. But the problem remains, unless he connects in a double throw three posisiton switch he has no way to by pass the Hi/low circuit to power the Solteks if the Hi/Low circuit fails again.

John Dumke install procedure for Hella FF50 this includes the double throw switch installation procedure, so you can bypass the Hi/Low switch to turn on the aux lights independently of the FJR headlight circuits.

dcarver said:

Oh, the Solteks, they trigger off the high beam wire on the OEM lights - so, yes, :****: head, you're right - they should be independently wired. This is 2x now, guess I'll have to rewire this time.

Click to expand...

Well, Don... not to be a downer, and of course I really can't be sure without closely examining your electrical work, but I am thinking you have introduced this problem yourself in some form or fashion.

There is a reason I encourage those on the IBA forum to wire their aux lights in such a way as to be completely and totally independent of the stock lighting system. And I do mean, *totally* independent. This way, regardless whether or not the alleged "arachnid" issue is culpable or not, should one lose their stock headlights for WHATEVER reason - groundings, hi-lo relay, karma, mis-alignment of the stars/moons, whatever - you still have a means to light up the road and get yourself home safely so you can address this problem.

Good luck fixing this.... I am willing to bet a thorough re-wiring of your Soltek circuit might go a looooong way to eliminating this issue. Again, can't be sure without seeing your set-up, but.... I encourage you to dump the Auto-switch, and control the power to the Solteks via an independent toggle switch.

Could be the high/low beam switch. Try it a few times and make sure it feels normal, and works as expected.

Wire the lights completely separate. See the top of the first post. Mine are anvil reliable and completely separate from the bike electrics.

Soltek install

Relays

Seems like I may have quoted you someplace too

Geezer said:

Could be the high/low beam switch. Try it a few times and make sure it feels normal, and works as expected.

Click to expand...

The high/low switch itself just energizes the high/low relay. It's a basic SPST switch, and if it doesn't work, you're just stuck on low beams. So he's back to something in the relays or connectors up in the nose. There's also a wiring harness coupler up there somewhere, big plug with 9 or 10 connections, which carries all the lighting circuits, cig lighter, and grip warmers. That's my number one suspect, without actually looking.

Sorry Don for your troubles... I also had the grounding problems.. Maybe we can get a deal if we buy a pair of Connie 1400's.... What do you think???

Smitty

Don

Have you found the smoking gun yet? Did one of the ground spiders fail, even after being lubed up with dielectric grease? Or was it some other weak point with your bike's electrical accessories.

Since you had a new main harness installed, it seems a bit soon for the effects of corrosion to have taken its nasty toll.

Brodie

+1 on Dumke's wiring. I have powered my Hellas that way with no problem. However, Don needs "mil spec", where as my needs are "garage queen spec", so it may not work as reliably.

Warchild said:

Well, Don... not to be a downer, and of course I really can't be sure without closely examining your electrical work, but I am thinking you have introduced this problem yourself in some form or fashion.

Click to expand...

+1

Warchild said:

... the alleged "arachnid" issue...

Click to expand...

+1 again. I'm still less than convinced on this issue.

Warchild said:

Good luck fixing this.... I am willing to bet a thorough re-wiring of your Soltek circuit might go a looooong way to eliminating this issue. Again, can't be sure without seeing your set-up, but.... I encourage you to dump the Auto-switch, and control the power to the Solteks via an independent toggle switch.

Click to expand...

+1 yet again...

I really don't think the Soltek wiring has anything to do with the problem. He has simply tapped off a tiny bit of high beam power to energize a relay. If anything that would help the grounding issue not hurt it.

Unfortunately Don you have replaced one defective wiring harness with another defective wiring harness. That is the issue here. When I read of potential "Spider" problems I checked and lubed all of mine and still had a "Stranded on the side of the road" failure not long after. The tell tale sign is the turn signal indicator lights on dim. What do the turn signal indicators have to do with headlights? They share the common grounding point through the spiders.

The work around here is to cut off all of the Spiders and solder the wires together. In my case I also added another wire to each splice to provide an additional path to ground just to be sure. I simply located a nearby bolt with a good ground and installed the other end of the wire there. Remember we have had failure notice on 2 different spiders. One by the left upper front corner of the engine and one by the left headlamp. How long wil it be before the others act up? I don't want to know. I am in the process of doing them all.

Just my $.02