2nd Gear Dog is worn?

ponyfool · May 2, 2008

I did a search of "2nd Gear Slip" and found THIS THREAD

It would appear, I have this problem too. The symptoms are identical. They talk about the gear dogs being worn (even though someone started to explain it, I still don't know what a dog is in this context). I don't have a YES warranty, and the bike is an 06, so it's no longer covered under factory warranty.

What am I looking at in parts for this? Do I rebuild the whole thing while I'm there, or just the damaged parts? I will do the work myself (under the watchful eye of my friend who is a professional mechanic), so I'm only interested in what parts need to be replaced.

Any idea? Oh, did I say this sucks?!?!?!? Bike has less than 12k on it. I can't believe a modern motorcycle would have tranny problems with so few miles on it. I am not a hooligan by any means.

noob · May 2, 2008

Scott,

emmm I gotta say agree completely about the sucking part... 12k miles? So the dry clutch plates still present in some 08's is a pretty easy fix, the broken wire on the ignition switches isn't tooooo bad, although taking off the upper triple tree is gonna scare the bujesus out of some non mechanical types... oh well.

But taking the engine out and splitting the casings on an 06 with 12k miles? I'm in shock, sorry guys, but really? that's just too much, I really don't know how you defend that. I know it doesn't happen to everyone, but it's happened to quite a few!

Good luck with it Scott, my apologies again, I know the feej is a fine machine, but this is pretty overwhelming.

Regards,

ponyfool · May 2, 2008

I'll be glad to let anyone around Portland with great mechanical knowledge ride it for a 2nd opinion, cuz I'd really rather not have to take this whole thing apart.

radman · May 2, 2008

How's your shifting habits? Solid, or lazy? Unless Yammi had a run of soft gears, the only way I can see it happening is as a result of bad shift technique, or many many miles. This is why I shudder when I hear someone doing nice, sloooow shifts. Have you been finding steel on the oil drain plug magnet? Other things can cause it-bent shift fork, which prevents full engagement of the meshing gears, though often that will cause a false neutral,as the gears unmesh and you are caught between two ratios. A bad thrust washer can allow the female (receiving) gear to move away from the engaging gear slightly when under the thrust load of the male sliding and pressing against it, causing the same problem. I've never had one release and re-engage though, usually once they're meshed, they stay meshed, as even in the pics in that referenced thread, you can see the majority of the dog is still intact. If the female receiving gear is beveled, the gears will again unhook as soon as power is applied. It is possible that an out of spec fork could have begun causing the problem from day one, only now are the results becoming evident. There is no way to know until, yes, the cases come apart. You might find some relief from a sympathetic dealer if he gets the work, and finds that a defective build or out of spec part caused the eventual failure-or it may turn out bad habits caused it-thats the risk you take going that route.

FJRMGM · May 5, 2008

did you miss a full throttle shift sometime that may have caused this?

Randy · May 5, 2008

FJRMGM said:
did you miss a full throttle shift sometime that may have caused this?

I don't think a single missed shift would cause this.

I've had both - bent shift forks and worn dogs (not both on the same bike). Bent fork wouls usually cause a bike to completely slip out of gear into a neutral. Worn dogs gave the feeling like you would quickly blip the clutch while under acceleration.

I'll see if I still have my parts list from when I had mine done.

How friendly are you with your dealer? If you have a good relationship with him, ask him if he would be willing to contact his regional service manager to see if they would be willing to consider doing a goodwill repair.

ponyfool · May 5, 2008

My shifting is no different than it has been on any bike I've ever owned. Solid pressure on the shifter, typically quick. Never have I had any problems. No, I don't believe I've ever had a missed shift on this bike, full throttle or otherwise.

I have no intention of having it fixed before NAFO because a functioning, but not perfect bike is better than a non-functioning torn apart bike on a garage floor.

user 213 · May 5, 2008

Sorry to hear about the problem PF. It doesn't take a missed shift or totally abused situation for tranny problems to occur. Sometimes you just get unlucky. One potential is simply applying power too early before the gears are fully engaged. I've trashed a 2nd gear in a car that way. Just got on it a tad too quickly when shifting.

Like Radman, it's hard to believe that this is a result of normal wear and tear. Lots of bikes with major mileage on them w/o tranny problems, and only a few with. Significantly, some of the problems have been major and not a result of the operator's methods or shifting, but a defect of some kind.

I know you said you are going to do the work, but if you don't have the experience taking the bike apart and actually being able to see and understand what's going on inside there, know what 'normal' Vs 'abnormal' wear looks like, etc, then it might be better to let the pros have at it. I can recommend Action in Fairview as having outstanding techs that are familiar with the FJR.

Regardless of how you tackle it, I hope it isn't too big a headache.

Kevin Daly · May 5, 2008

ponyfool said:
They talk about the gear dogs being worn (even though someone started to explain it, I still don't know what a dog is in this context).

Gear dogs are like dowels that are pressed into a gear and lock the gear into the drive train when the grar is engaged (me'z thinks) somewhere I saw a great cartoon of this here on the forum but i cant find it.

Anyone know the cartoon I am talking about?

ponyfool · May 6, 2008

Well, my hopes of waiting until after NAFO to get it looked at are diminishing. It is getting much worse. Now, damn near every time I go to 2nd gear, under power, normal, or light loads, it is doing it. I have tried everything I can think of to see if it is a shifting issue, etc, and it just ain't.

Looks like I'll be making a trip to the dealer to get an idea of cost, etc.

Kevin Daly · May 6, 2008

Man sorry to hear that PF. Now is a tough time to get work done at a bike shop. if you get the right manuals and a nice clean place in the basement, you could get it done in the evenings faster than waiting.

Constant Mesh · May 6, 2008

Here's an article about transmissions. The engagement dogs are discussed in some detail.

https://www.wootbike.com/articles.php?article_id=3

ponyfool · May 6, 2008

Good article, thanks for the link. Now that I know WHAT is wrong, I just have to figure out if I'm going to fix it or sell it. I can't believe I'm faced with a situation where I have to replace what could potentially cost $1500 (more than 1/10th the cost of the bike new) on a two year old bike with less than 12,000 miles on it.

Hotboot · May 6, 2008

I have a similar issue with my 3 to 4 shifts, think it's advancing to where someone needs to get in there. Never needed a dealer until now, and can they do the job with speed and proficiency....

Get some dealer feedback from members in your area, see if Mama Yamma will extend the warranty if needed and help you out.

Hope it does not affect your road trip.

user 213 · May 7, 2008

ponyfool said:
Good article, thanks for the link. Now that I know WHAT is wrong, I just have to figure out if I'm going to fix it or sell it. I can't believe I'm faced with a situation where I have to replace what could potentially cost $1500 (more than 1/10th the cost of the bike new) on a two year old bike with less than 12,000 miles on it.

No help for you, but for the newer owners, it makes the $400 YES look pretty cheap.

You'll spend more buying another bike, one way or another. Just fix it.

Constant Mesh · May 7, 2008

Maybe a good reason to have an AE. A rider can't cause transmission problems on an AE -- the computer and servos do the shifting.

ionbeam · May 7, 2008

I had a chance to ride with (former) forum member Kapuskasing (from Toronto) who really had 2nd gear transmission problems. The first time YES picked up the repair tab. The second time, with some grousing YES picked up the tab. The THIRD time they told Kapuskasing that he was on his own. I haven't heard from him since.

ponyfool · May 7, 2008

ionbeam said:
I had a chance to ride with (former) forum member Kapuskasing (from Toronto) who really had 2nd gear transmission problems. The first time YES picked up the repair tab. The second time, with some grousing YES picked up the tab. The THIRD time they told Kapuskasing that he was on his own. I haven't heard from him since.

I take it he was the cause? How exactly does one cause this problem?

ponyfool · May 7, 2008

I'm sure I was just blocking this from my mind, but it was recently brought to my attention that a likely cause was the fact that I loaned my bike out for 6 weeks to someone else.

2nd Gear Dog is worn?

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