Dual Sport Dreamin'...

I'm not buying right now, necessarily. Just dreamin'. Hey, it's getting cold out there. Snow will be flying a'fore you know it. Time to start the hot stove threads...

So I am thinking of getting dirty (again) come spring time. Several times over the past year or two I have come to a point in my ride where the road on the GPS is just a bit rougher than what I'm quite willing to subject the porky B5 FJR to. And to those of you that ride with me regularly, you know that I will subject her to her share of dirt roads.

In the past I've owned several MX bikes and trail bikes, but they are limited by having to trailer them to the riding, and then riding only on approved trails (of which there are shockingly few) or else being prepared to run from Johnny Law. Not too long ago I owned a 2005 KLR650 (didn't like it) and then a 2000 Aprilia Pegaso, which is the identical bike to the BMW F650 Funduro. That one was close to being right, but still a bit hefty. I kinda wish that I'd kept that one and maybe gave it a better chance.

Anyway, I'm thinking of going back to the brown side. My riding would be relatively short distance, just in and around New England. Mostly in New Hampshire and Maine. I won't be doing much single track but I would not mind being able to if I had the opportunity and inclination.

So what do people suggest for a nice middle weight trailie? I don't want anything as big as a KTM 990 Adventure, Guzzi Stelvio or Beemer R12GS. Those might punch the ticket when it's time to go from here to Alaska (my dream ride, BTW) but for now I'm thinking much, much smaller. But I'm, also also a pretty big cat at 6'2" and 215lbs, so I don't think I can get by on a 250 4-stroke.

Here are the one's that pique my interest for various reasons:

Suzuki DR's. The 400 would be wicked on the trails. Not sure about the 650's.

Honda XR's. I owned a 400 before. It was a fantastic trail bike, but not streetable without work. And then it would act like a trail bike on the street (not good) The 650's seem a bit hefty? Any feedback?

KTM's - all of em. 2 smokes not excluded. In fact, a 2-stroke seems to me to be a way to get the required power without the weight. Am I high? :blink:

WeeStrom - 2 cyls would be nice but how dirty can you get them?

Versys - see above.

comments?

Fred W said:

KTM's - all of em. 2 smokes not excluded. In fact, a 2-stroke seems to me to be a way to get the required power without the weight.comments?

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Are 2-strokes street-legal (somehow?) in the 'Live Free or Die' area of the country?

Are KTM 2-strokes EPA approved? :blink:

Or..., is that (street-legal) not an issue?

The Honda 650R is a hoss, you'll have to buy one already street legal or make it that way, they dont come legal off the floor. The 650L comes S.L., but it aint much on the fun stuff.

KTM 450/530 EXC, (4 strokes)comes out of the box ready to fight, its more than a Dual sport, its a street legal race bike! They will weigh a bit more than the 2 stroke, but pack as much or more punch! If you aint looking to rip an snort on fire roads and single track, the KTM might not be for you.

The others KLR's, Wee-stroms, etc... are all pretty much gravel road munchers!

https://www.motorcycle-usa.com/179/264/Moto...First-Ride.aspx Fred, the absolutely most popular dual sport bike in Arizona is the KTM 450 EXC, followed closely by KTM 530 EXC. Dealers can't keep them in stock!

If I hadn't drank thousands of liters of ever delicious Roundel blue und white BMW Kool-Aide over the years I'd be riding KTM!

Fred,

It all depends how far you want to get into the dirt. If your going to do any tight trails at all you can pretty much cross off any of the 650's. If your mostly looking at snowmobile trails,power lines and such you will be better off with 650cc bike. I have heard a lot of bad things about the KLR when they first came out with there new model a couple of years ago. Not sure if they have straightened everything out yet. The XR650L hasn't changed in 10 years and is bulletproof. It will soak up bumps like they aren't even there. Plenty of aftermarket parts so they can be modified to your liking. I am not sure how it works in NH but here in MA if the original title says off road you can forget about taking a dirtbike and making it street legal. The KTM's are about the closest your going to get for a street legal dirtbike. I like the Yamaha 450's they have out now and they have a lot of good to say about them. I wouldn't go any smaller than a 450cc IMO. If insurance wasn't so expensive i would love to have both my bikes on the road. If you want to come down and test ride my XR you can. Whenever I am out riding my FJR and see all the side trails I could explore if only i was on my dualsport. I do miss riding it.

My 2cts.

Dave

The 650 Dakar model is taller than the regualr F650GS, more dirt worthy, and comes street legal as is. Can't shed much more on other bikes . . . try ADVrider.com

It's like a freakin' disease.

Old Michael said:

It's like a freakin' disease.

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OM, better or worse than Darksideritis?

Fred, The DRZ400S works well for me. Best bike I've ever bought that does so many things well. Street trim currently is SuperMoto with 17" wheels and Dunlops, corners like a Banshee! The DRZ with the SM wheels on the track are an absolute hoot, in fact more fun than my CBR600F4i was! Dirt trim with the 21 & 17 in wheels and Maxxis DOT knobbies work well. For serious dirt work I drop the front countershaft sprocket to a 13T and loose the mirrors. Wheelies in 1st and 2nd are a simple twist of the throttle, but as usual, a lighter dirt bike is always better.

Or you could try the KTM Adventure

charismaticmegafauna said:

Are 2-strokes street-legal (somehow?) in the 'Live Free or Die' area of the country? Are KTM 2-strokes EPA approved? :blink:

Or..., is that (street-legal) not an issue?

Click to expand...

2-strokes are still street legal here. No restrictions (yet) on oil burners in NH.

08FJR4ME said:

I am not sure how it works in NH but here in MA if the original title says off road you can forget about taking a dirtbike and making it street legal.

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That's not that big a deal up here either. Lot's of people put kits on dirt bikes and get them on the street. It is a fairly easy process, though I would prefer to have a bike that was designed to be street-able. Thanks for the other info and XR ride offer.

CAJW said:

Fred, The DRZ400S works well for me. ...as usual, a lighter dirt bike is always better.

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That seems to be the dual sport compromise in a nutshell.

For off road lighter is better. On road it's exactly the reverse. Finding the happy place in the middle is the trick.

The Suzuki DR 400 seems like it might be exactly in that happy place. Same for the KTM's mentioned. They would probably be my 1st choice if I won a lottery. Too bad Honda doesn't make a street legal version of the XR400.

I know the "right" place to get this kind of info is on ADVrider.com and I will be spending some time there over the winter. I'm actually already a member over there from my prior DS bikes. But I know that more folks here are like me, a slightly over-weight, somewhat out of condition, old fart. Asking a bunch of "kids" what the best DS bike is not likely to give me the same results.

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Keep em coming...

Old Michael said:

It's like a freakin' disease.

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"Life is a DISEASE; and the only difference between one man and another is the stage of the DISEASE at which he lives. --George Bernard Shaw

I've been wanting a DS for years. I really like the KTMs. They're real dirt bikes that happen to have tags... but ****, what money they want.. CW did a euro dirt bike comparo a few months ago and the one that seemed more like what I want was the BMW.

I'd rather have a tagged DRZ-E than an -S, but any 400/450 is going to be too small if you're actually going to be going anywhere on the street. If I wanted a dirt bike that I had to have a tag on for forest roads or extremely short stints on the road, I'd actually consider the Kawi KLX-250. I have a KLX-300 and it's more than enough bike to tote my fat arse around trails. I've ridden it back to back with a WR450 and the difference, while very noticeable, wasn't enough to make me want to sell the KLX. I haven't ridden the -250, but it can't be that much slower. And it's a bunch cheaper.

I've had a WR450 Yamaha since new in 2003. It has been pretty flawless machine for me. Like Don said the KTM EXC's are the most popular here in Colorado too. But as you said The DRZ 400 is a great all around ,low maintenance bike.

Fred W said:

charismaticmegafauna said:

Are 2-strokes street-legal (somehow?) in the 'Live Free or Die' area of the country? Are KTM 2-strokes EPA approved? :blink:

Or..., is that (street-legal) not an issue?

Click to expand...

2-strokes are still street legal here. No restrictions (yet) on oil burners in NH.

Click to expand...

08FJR4ME said:

I am not sure how it works in NH but here in MA if the original title says off road you can forget about taking a dirtbike and making it street legal.

Click to expand...

Fred W said:

That's not that big a deal up here either. Lot's of people put kits on dirt bikes and get them on the street. It is a fairly easy process, though I would prefer to have a bike that was designed to be street-able.

Click to expand...

Interesting..., I guess 'states rights' is/are alive-and-well in New England? The Feds seem to run the show in the rest of the country and motor vehicles must meet Federal EPA and DOT requirements to be on the public roads (and Natl. For. roads).

CAJW said:

Fred, The DRZ400S works well for me. ...as usual, a lighter dirt bike is always better.

Click to expand...

Fred W said:

That seems to be the dual sport compromise in a nutshell. For off road lighter is better. On road it's exactly the reverse. Finding the happy place in the middle is the trick.

Click to expand...

I can't think of a single place where a heavier vehicle is better -- light-ness is the ultimate goal -- heavy is the inability to engineer properly. Even a light aluminum boat anchor can be better than a heavier iron or steel one -- if engineered and constructed properly.

While there might be a "golden mean" to dual-sport...?; many seem to want... something like a motcross bike that they can some-how ride on the street (you know: knobbies, loud exhaust, real low gearing, etc.).

Again, like 'sport-touring', D.S. is open to interpretation. I have a friend who owned both a DR650 (single cyl.) and a DL650 (V-Strom, twin cyl.) at the same time. I found it interesting when he told me he wouldn't take the DL V-Strom down the gravel roads in his riding area -- too risky (when compared to the DR...).

My D.S. picks run like this:

• '09+ Kawi KLX 250S
• Yamaha WR250R
• 'Priller RXV450 (v-twin)(maybe the most technically advanced/modern...?)

Fred W said:

Too bad Honda doesn't make a street legal version of the XR400.

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Why is 'not street legal' an issue in New Hampshire?

Fred W said:

I know the "right" place to get this kind of info is on ADVrider.com and I will be spending some time there over the winter. I'm actually already a member over there from my prior DS bikes. But I know that more folks here are like me, a slightly over-weight, somewhat out of condition, old fart. Asking a bunch of "kids" what the best DS bike is not likely to give me the same results.

Click to expand...

Are you talkin' 'bout "maturity"...?

Fred W said:

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Keep em coming...

Click to expand...

You're welcome and OK...

charismaticmegafauna said:

Interesting..., I guess 'states rights' is/are alive-and-well in New England? The Feds seem to run the show in the rest of the country and motor vehicles must meet Federal EPA and DOT requirements to be on the public roads (and Natl. For. roads).

Click to expand...

Got a cite? Where does it say that 2-strokes don't meet Federal EPA or DOT? If it is, I sure as hell see a lot of illegal bikes running around. And lot's of them are bikes that didn't start their lives as "street legal" when manufactured.

The only problem with converting to street legal here is the hassle and expense of getting it certified by the State. It means getting a cop to come out and look it over and check all the boxes, and verify the VIN.

As to your other stuff, yes, the weight is not an "advantage" per se, and yet goes hand in hand with on the road stability.

The Aprilia is a good addition. Thanks. I will add that to the list. I have an Aprilia (Ducati/Guzzi) dealer just down the road.

As to your wimpy friend, I rode about 10 miles (maybe more) on dirt roads today. On my FJR...

Fred W said:

charismaticmegafauna said:

Interesting..., I guess 'states rights' is/are alive-and-well in New England? The Feds seem to run the show in the rest of the country and motor vehicles must meet Federal EPA and DOT requirements to be on the public roads (and Natl. For. roads).

Click to expand...

Got a cite? Where does it say that 2-strokes don't meet Federal EPA or DOT? If it is, I sure as hell see a lot of illegal bikes running around. And lot's of them are bikes that didn't start their lives as "street legal" when manufactured.

Click to expand...

Well..., I guess? If you're talkin' antique/collector bikes...?

Fred W said:

The only problem with converting to street legal here is the hassle and expense of getting it certified by the State. It means getting a cop to come out and look it over and check all the boxes, and verify the VIN.

Click to expand...

What the govt. has done is instituted Federal exhaust emission regulations which manufacturers using 2-stroke technology find difficult/impossible to meet. (Yamaha, in the late'70s, used cat-cons on a two-stroke road bike).

"Federal standards for highway motorcycles were first established in the 1978 model year (see 42 FR 1126, Jan. 5, 1977). ...final standards took effect with the 1980 model year.

The level of technology required to meet these standards is widely considered to be comparable to the pre-catalyst technology in the automobile. These standards...resulted in the phase-out of two-stroke engines for highway motorcycles"

More fun reading here :

https://www.epa.gov/EPA-AIR/2004/January/Day-15/a006.htm

we ain't got no emissions tests up here... for murdercycles.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

After a shave (and a good dose of fluoxetine):

One of those guys ^^ was a little more pro-govt.-regulation than the other...

(neither, probably, as radical as some New Hampshire-ites...? )