Electircal -"Enginge running" circuit

So.

you know when you turn on the ignition, the headlights are OFF. Then, after the engine starts, the headlights are ON.

I'm in the process of building a wiring harness and it will have three power blocks. Not just the typical key on and key off ..but also a third for when the engine is running, exactly the way our headlights are done. I'm trying to find where I can tap in and get that signal to trip my relay which will power-up this third power block.

It wouldn't have to be the same circuit that triggers the headlights, any circuit doing the same thing would suffice -as long as it stays powered when the engine dies, just as the headlights do.

Oh, and yes, I realize I could do an either/or circuit by tapping into both low and high beam circuits to get the same result, but that is kinda hokey not to mention the dead spot in the high/low beam switch that would cause havoc. I really need to find a simple place to get the signal.

Any wisdom much appreciated.

RJ,

You could used the yellow/black wire that runs from the ECU to the headlight relay #1. It is grounded by the ECU after engine start. Risk here is buggering up the ECU if you overload it, which could get expensive.

Alternately you can dig into the nose and find the Green/Blue output wire from Headlight Relay #1 (Headlights on/off) that supplies power to Headlight relay #2 (hi/lo beam relay). This wire will be +12V after engine start.

Keep in mind it's not just engine running. If you stop the engine with the kill switch or the sidestand the circuit remains hot. Key off is the only way to kill it.

As far as I know, on the FJR the 'third' circuit is switched by a relay that is activated bij de dynamo output.

So if de dynamo produces sufficient power (or: more voltage than the battery voltage), the relay switches on and provides power from the battery to the 'third' circuit.

Maybe you can make use of the voltage regulator to control the relay (kind of reverse battery warning light).

(for what it's worth)

Fred W said:

Alternately you can dig into the nose and find the Green/Blue output wire from Headlight Relay #1 (Headlights on/off) that supplies power to Headlight relay #2 (hi/lo beam relay). This wire will be +12V after engine start.

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Fred, this seems golden and simple for my needs, as well is in the immediate neighborhood of my other wiring. Thanks so much.

wfooshee said:

Keep in mind it's not just engine running. If you stop the engine with the kill switch or the sidestand the circuit remains hot. Key off is the only way to kill it.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly the way I want it. Because some of the farkles from this powerblock will be lights, I don't want them going off should the engine stall for whatever reason. Thanks

Rinosaure said:

As far as I know, on the FJR the 'third' circuit is switched by a relay that is activated bij de dynamo output.So if de dynamo produces sufficient power (or: more voltage than the battery voltage), the relay switches on and provides power from the battery to the 'third' circuit.

Maybe you can make use of the voltage regulator to control the relay (kind of reverse battery warning light).

(for what it's worth)

Click to expand...

Hmmmm, very interesting. If I'm understanding correctly(?) That is golden info. Not for what I have planned, but this really could be useful. IE: shutting down stuff when there isn't sufficient power to charge the battery, ie heated gear. Hmm, maybe a fourth powerblock. Ya got me thinkin' Thanks much

Freddy, wfooski, and Rhinosarous, thanks much!

That's the way I run the 'switched' items on my fuzeblock. I tapped the heated grip wire down by the coolant overflow bottle to get the +12v-after-engine-start signal.

bmwhd said:

........ the heated grip wire down by the coolant overflow bottle to get the +12v-after-engine-start signal.

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Ahh, so the heated grip wire is turned on same as the headlights -AFTER the engine starts(?). Nice, that is helpful. Thanks.

RenoJohn said:

bmwhd said:

........ the heated grip wire down by the coolant overflow bottle to get the +12v-after-engine-start signal.

Click to expand...

Ahh, so the heated grip wire is turned on same as the headlights -AFTER the engine starts(?). Nice, that is helpful. Thanks.

Click to expand...

If true, that's the cat's meow - get the mating connector from Jim at EasternBeaver.com. Really clean sano install not prone to failure or messing up other stock oem circuits.

RenoJohn said:

bmwhd said:

........ the heated grip wire down by the coolant overflow bottle to get the +12v-after-engine-start signal.

Click to expand...

Ahh, so the heated grip wire is turned on same as the headlights -AFTER the engine starts(?). Nice, that is helpful. Thanks.

Click to expand...

This is the way mine is setup, too.

Heated grip trick only works on 2nd Gens.

1st gens weren't pre-wired for grips.

Also, I'm not sure what the ECU triggers the Headlight signal (ground) based on, it happens inside the magic of the ECU.

But it definitely does not turn off the headlights when the engine dies, so it doesn't appear it will work as a low alternator detect as you indicated.

Since you will have a relay circuit controlled by the keyed main switch it will be easy to add another relay controlled by the headlight high/low beams.

All you need is a single pole single throw automotive relay and three low current diodes (capable of handling coil current).

Tap into the high and low beam circuits with two isolation diodes. These will supply +12V to the relay coil. The third isolation diode, parallelled with the other two, will provide a seal-in circuit to ensure that the coil doesn't drop out until the main switch is turned off. This final diode will allow power to flow from the output of the relay contact to the relay coil.

The power to this relay's contact will flow from your other relay circuit which is controlled by the main switch. When the main switch is turned off the seal-in circuit will drop out.

If I could provide a sketch it would be easily understood. A very simple circuit.

But, if you don't mind removing the front cowling and gaining access to the headlight relays, tapping into the output of the primary headlight relay would be the most straightforward, simplest circuit.

Here's your sketch:

FYI, the Gen 2's drop power to BOTH outputs for a moment when changing from high-beams to low-beams. I don't know if the Gen 1 behaves the same way.

Not sure that the latching diode will be enough when you lose input from both trigger sources simultaneously.

It should be, since once the relay is actuated it will then get the 12V from your switched source instead of the lights

Constant Mesh said:

Since you will have a relay circuit controlled by the keyed main switch it will be easy to add another relay controlled by the headlight high/low beams.
All you need is a single pole single throw automotive relay and three low current diodes (capable of handling coil current).

Tap into the high and low beam circuits with two isolation diodes. These will supply +12V to the relay coil. The third isolation diode, parallelled with the other two, will provide a seal-in circuit to ensure that the coil doesn't drop out until the main switch is turned off. This final diode will allow power to flow from the output of the relay contact to the relay coil.

The power to this relay's contact will flow from your other relay circuit which is controlled by the main switch. When the main switch is turned off the seal-in circuit will drop out.

If I could provide a sketch it would be easily understood. A very simple circuit.

But, if you don't mind removing the front cowling and gaining access to the headlight relays, tapping into the output of the primary headlight relay would be the most straightforward, simplest circuit.

Click to expand...

Fred W said:

Here's your sketch:

Click to expand...

Guys, as I mentioned on my initial post, I do not want to go this way as I'd rather not dick around with the high/low beam because it does create more PIA than necessary (assuming I can find a simple signal elsewhere), also as I mentioned, there is a dead spot in the high/low beam switch -which is less than ideal, especially since that lag will be a tad bit exaggerated through a relay and will not be ideal for HID's which will be running off of this circuit. I see slap-n-pop, said the same thing. I'm not as qualified as you guyz on how well the diode would work, but even slight leakage could cause trouble. simple is more gooder me thinks.

My first plan will be to tap into the Green/Blue from relay one that Fred mentioned. That sounds ideal and eazzzy. we'll see ;-)

dcarver said:

get the mating connector from Jim at EasternBeaver.com. Really clean sano install not prone to failure or messing up other stock oem circuits.

Click to expand...

He does nice stuff, ....but so do I ;-) and with about 6relays all together, he's tad expensive.

Not really messing, just tapping in to get a signal -few milliamps at most to trip one relay. I'm doing the extra work to stay away from the OEM circuits/wiring as much as possible.

End result will be 3 powerblocks

#1 No Key ...will power GPS etc and an Aux connector

#2 Keyed, ...will power netbook/camera etc charging circuit ...along as an aux connector

#3 Engine runningg ..will run HID primary lights, Halogen aux lights, HID aux lights .....as well as heated gear/grips. I won't be using any of the oem headlight wiring, lights will be powered via relay direct from the powerblock a few inches away. much better source of juice for the lights, more efficient and just gooder all-around.

BTW, each primary headlight will be relayed independent of each other so I can turn one or both off (for better battery charging or to give more juice to other gizmos when wanted or required). Both pair of aux lights can be switched via high beam and/or their own toggle switch.

Should be pretty groovy, PIA but groovy.

Never mind.

I did something similar on my bike. Without going into all the gory details, I route power to a master fuse block that has 3 "banks" available for accessories. These banks are:

1) Always on

2) On with key

3) On when engine is running.

Note for item 3, if you kill the engine (like stalling with the clutch and in gear, or by putting the side stand down) then the headlight will stay on (as yamaha designed it) but the stuff on my "3rd" bank will actually turn off.

Is suspect this is what you are looking for. I use it so that my driving lights and other high draw accesories turn off automatically and dont kill the battery if the engine is off.

I did this by wiring two relays in series. The first relay is triggered by a line taken from the headlights. The second relay is triggered by a line taken from the feed line to the fuel pump. When both the fuel pump are on and headlight are on, then the engine is running.

When you first turn on the bike the fuel pump primes for a moment, but the headlight is off, so the accesories are off.

Once you start the engine the fuel pump is turned on and the headlight comes on, so now the accesories are on.

If you kill the engine, the fuel pump stops, which turns the accesories back off (even though the headlight is still on).

Hope this helps.

- Colin

Colin24 said:

I did something similar on my bike. Without going into all the gory details, I route power to a master fuse block that has 3 "banks" available for accessories. These banks are:1) Always on

2) On with key

3) On when engine is running.

Note for item 3, if you kill the engine (like stalling with the clutch and in gear, or by putting the side stand down) then the headlight will stay on (as yamaha designed it) but the stuff on my "3rd" bank will actually turn off.

Is suspect this is what you are looking for. I use it so that my driving lights and other high draw accesories turn off automatically and dont kill the battery if the engine is off.

I did this by wiring two relays in series. The first relay is triggered by a line taken from the headlights. The second relay is triggered by a line taken from the feed line to the fuel pump. When both the fuel pump are on and headlight are on, then the engine is running.

When you first turn on the bike the fuel pump primes for a moment, but the headlight is off, so the accesories are off.

Once you start the engine the fuel pump is turned on and the headlight comes on, so now the accesories are on.

If you kill the engine, the fuel pump stops, which turns the accesories back off (even though the headlight is still on).

Hope this helps.

- Colin

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Colin,

Yes, what I'm doing is very similar. I hadn't thought of your unique (ok peculiar) "engine running" approach -very creative!! different than mine.

I do not want the circuit to go off when the engine stops though. A few of my own reasons including stalling out in dirt, I don't want the world to go dark ...also I often use the lights for taking night-time bonus pics on rallies. My main goal is to not have them on when I first turn on the ignition -and have them come on when the engine starts, just like the OEM headlights.

I haven't yet looked for the wire that Fred W mentioned, but that sure seems like the best way for me.

Everything else is very similar. I'd be curious if you'd want to share words or pics of where you placed your relays and powerblocks ....and I use the word powerblock loosely, I may just use a few small terminal barries jumped as needed. I'm up to six relays now, but 4of those are for various lights and I'm wiring those relays in-line to help with space. But I need to find a home for one or two bosch clones.

Thanks much .....john