Bike died twice since "supplemental" wiring ground installed

DaveD · Aug 18, 2011

Hi folks - I had the grounding connection recall work done last week. Yesterday, driving home through heavy urban stop-and-go traffic, the bike just died. The blue high-beam ***** light came on, the fuel indicator bars were flashing, and both turn signal lights started flashing.

I pulled over, turned the key to off, and all the lights continued doing the above! Turned it back to On, pressed starter - nothing. Turned it off, and everything went off. Turned the key back to on, and all was well. Pressed starter and she started right up. Drove home - no further problems.

On the way in to work this morning - same experience, sort-of. After the bike got good and hot (I'm driving in downtown Boston), she just died. I was moving (second gear; maybe 20mph), and the engine dies. The lights did not do the weird dance like yesterday, though. I pulled over, turned the key to Off, back to On, pressed the starter, and was back on my way.

Anyone else had this issue? Any relation to the grounding recall work? After perusing some of the threads, I'm thinking the first thing to check would be the battery terminals.

FredandJeannesRacer · Aug 18, 2011

Sounds like mine did before I got the ignition switch replaced under the recall.

DaveD · Aug 18, 2011

Hmm... theoretically, my ignition switch was done. I was told when I bought the bike that the ignition issue had been dealt with. I suppose that's easy enough to verify.

FredandJeannesRacer · Aug 18, 2011

I believe they are supposed to center punch a "dot" at the end of the vin on the frame, to verify the recall was done.

Should also be in their records.

SkooterG · Aug 18, 2011

Well, sounds like they definitely screwed something up. I would have the bike back to them ASAP to fix whatever broke.

Idiots.

escapefjrtist · Aug 18, 2011

Since it just came out of the shop with the fix installed, I'd check for a loose ground on the battery. This should be the only thing the dealer would screw up while performing the recall...

Good Luck.

--G

mferriter · Aug 19, 2011

escapefjrtist said:
Since it just came out of the shop with the fix installed, I'd check for a loose ground on the battery. This should be the only thing the dealer would screw up while performing the recall...

Good Luck.

--G

It's been my experience that there's no end to the things a high quality, well equipped repair shop can screw up.

I had one just reset the error code on my CBR and send me on my merry way, having "fixed" the problem. I was back in their faces after riding 100 yards down the road. Almost got a new bike out of it after calling Honda and the NC State Attorney General's office. I settled for a $500 credit, two years free maintenance ("bumper to bumper" including oil changes, tires etc) and a loaner bike during the repair period.

JamesK · Aug 19, 2011

Your symptoms certainly do sound like you've still got a ground spider problem.

DaveD · Aug 19, 2011

Talked to the service guys this morning; the bike's going back to them next Tuesday. I'll post an update then.

One question: how much error data gets captured when the spider bites? Is there anything definitive left behind that they can see in the error codes?

JamesK · Aug 19, 2011

DaveD said:
Talked to the service guys this morning; the bike's going back to them next Tuesday. I'll post an update then.

One question: how much error data gets captured when the spider bites? Is there anything definitive left behind that they can see in the error codes?

I think a fried wiring harness is pretty definitive evidence, even the result of a small "1st" bite is easy to see.

FJR Bill · Aug 20, 2011

Makes you wonder how much time they spend inspecting the harness. I can imagine, the mech carefully inspects 10 bikes...no damage detected, installs sub harness. Bike 11 comes in he glances at the harness not expecting to see a problem so doesn't...installs sub harness. Sounds to me like you got bit by the spider.

Bill

bramfrank · Aug 20, 2011

Where does the supplementary harness attach to the bike's ground?

If it goes to the battery, then it is quite possible that a loose negative battery connection could cause the bike to stall, because the ground for the S4 would be lost.

This is a serious 'no no' in the world of vehicle engineering and might signal the need for Yamaha to rethink the 'solution' if that is indeed what they've done.

Harald · Aug 22, 2011

The fact that you had wacky lamp indications sure points to a spider bite problem. :angry2: A loose ground at the battery would cause the bike to suddenly die, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see wacky lights on the dash. At any rate, it'll only take a couple minute to eliminate a loose connection at the battery.

A more likely scenario is that the S4 wasn't melted and the dealer plugged the recall harness in and called it good. What he didn't notice was that the S4 connector sockets are horribly corroded and are not making good continuity with the new recall harness. Definitely something to look at.

The other possibility is that you are one of us rare FJR owners that have experienced a spider failure other than the infamous S4 spider. I had intermittent millisecond bike dying and headlight dying episodes before my S7 finally gave me a hard failure that allowed me to effectively troubleshoot the problem. You can read more HERE . I suspect that as time goes on there will be more joining the exclusive "other than S4 spider bite" club. If this turns out to be your problem, be sure to post in THIS THREAD that I started to track failures of spiders other than S4.

bramfrank · Aug 23, 2011

In theory, losng a battery connection on a running bike should cause no probems if the engine is spinning fast enough to allow the alternator to generate adequate current to self excite the coils and produce enough power to run the machine.

Losing the ground from the S4 jumper on a marginal wiring harness WOULD cause S4 symptoms, though I suppose it could also be due to other spiders - we know that there are 2 others that are prone to failure and which have not been addressed by the recall.

However if the new jumper that Yamaha installed provides the only ground for S4 (and presumably downstream spiders as well) because the pin on the connector is marginal - and if the battery negative is where the jumper is terminated, then Yamaha has repaired noting and I will venture to say that as reports filter in and time passes on Yamaha may have to recall their recall.

For those who have issues with spiders other than S4 or who have had issues with S4 after the recall I strongly suggest documenting your experiences carefully and in great detail at Safercars or at the Canadian DOT site (as appropriate) as soon as possible.

Brodie · Aug 23, 2011

Dave

I think Harald is onto something. Have the dealer service people inspect the sub harness which lives in the front faring. It contains 3 spider nests, 2 of which have been known to go out. With the restoration of a good ground path from the S4 spider nest, I can envision the load shifting up stream.

The first one, S6 lives down low behind the left turn signal. Remove the black left inner faring panel, the one next to the horn. and have a look for any melting damage to the connector and/or the black plastic cap. If it is in good shape, the next one to look at would be the one above the rear of the left headlight. You need to remove the 2 black faring panels to see it. The last and least likely one lives above the rear of the right headlight.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Brodie

DaveD · Aug 29, 2011

Hi folks - to follow up: I talked to the service guy this morning and he said it was a bad connector in the wiring bypass recall kit from Yamaha. They replaced the kit with another and now all seems well.

I'm going to press them a little more on that when I go to get the bike; since the bypass wiring is there as a fail-safe in case the main harness fries, I don't see why a loose connection should cause an issue. I saw bramfrank's comment, "Losing the ground from the S4 jumper on a marginal wiring harness WOULD cause S4 symptoms..." - if the harness is marginal, I would want it replaced.

Mikeysduck · Aug 29, 2011

Back when they "fixed" my ignition switch, I got an intermittent stalling problem. This would only happen while I was moving, NOT COOL. I checked the fault codes, nothing. I decided the battery was going so i bought a new one. Well the tech did not tighten the battery terminals. I tightened them, and I'm still running the original battery. I bench charge my new battery, to keep it alive.

DaveD · Aug 29, 2011

Hi - more follow-up: when I picked it up I talked to the tech who did the work on my bike. He said the same thing - the sub-harness kit had a bad connector, and left one of the grounds in an iffy state. He did a test ride and all seemed well after replacing the harness, and all was well on my ride home. I guess the proof will come over the next week as I do some slow-stop-and-go riding in the city.

The guy who did the work is someone I know and trust, btw. He's a friend of one of my kids, really seems to know his stuff, and is definitely not a knucklehead.

Harald · Sep 8, 2011

DaveD said:
Hi - more follow-up: when I picked it up I talked to the tech who did the work on my bike. He said the same thing - the sub-harness kit had a bad connector, and left one of the grounds in an iffy state. He did a test ride and all seemed well after replacing the harness, and all was well on my ride home. I guess the proof will come over the next week as I do some slow-stop-and-go riding in the city.

The guy who did the work is someone I know and trust, btw. He's a friend of one of my kids, really seems to know his stuff, and is definitely not a knucklehead.

That explanation sounds flakey to me because the recall harness connector would have pins in it that are durable and easily inspected/cleaned. The S4 connector that part of the bikes main harness, on the other hand, has sockets that are difficult to inspect or clean and rely on a delicate spring to ensure a solid connection to the pin that being inserted in it. I suppose it's possible that there was a bad crimp on the recall harness pin, but it's much more likely that there was corrosion on the main harness side. Time will tell, but if you continue having problems you'll know where to look.

Bike died twice since "supplemental" wiring ground installed

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