AIS- Oily mess

sapest · Aug 24, 2024

Upon head removal (for valve check) I find this -

The shop says the oil rings are the issue.
Yes I have been adding oil between changes. Not much, 200/300 ml. once between changes. I would not consider the exhaust outlets as oily.
Never see any blue smoke or smell 'oily' exhaust.
My options appear to be a ring job or "live with it" and continue to add oil between change intervals.
Could anything else be the possible cause?
What happens if I block off the AIS?

-Steve

Panman · Aug 24, 2024

How many miles is on that 16?

sapest · Aug 24, 2024

Panman said:
How many miles is on that 16?

~120,000 km, ~75,000 miles.
-Steve

Oldjeep · Aug 24, 2024

sapest said:
Upon head removal (for valve check) I find this -
View attachment 7921

View attachment 7922
The shop says the oil rings are the issue.
Yes I have been adding oil between changes. Not much, 200/300 ml. once between changes. I would not consider the exhaust outlets as oily.
Never see any blue smoke or smell 'oily' exhaust.
My options appear to be a ring job or "live with it" and continue to add oil between change intervals.
Could anything else be the possible cause?
What happens if I block off the AIS?

-Steve

Blocking. Ais is no big deal, I did mine a few years ago. But that isn't gonna solve the why on those being full of oil.

Whooshka · Aug 24, 2024

My guess would be crank case breather, if there is one on the FJR. What oil are you using?

sapest · Aug 24, 2024

Motul 5100 for the last 2 yrs.
-Steve

vzhq16 · Aug 26, 2024

There a thousands of Yamaha FJR1300s out running around with a lot more miles than that and do not have an oily mess problem like that. There must be some highly unusual condition for an FJR engine to look like that. Neglected maintenance, clogged crankcase ventilation or a PAIR system failure are a few that come to mind. You likely wouldn't smell or see the oil burning issue because the cat converter will disguise it until the cat becomes too contaminated and fails. If you've had the bike for two years, do you know the bike's history before you bought it? Has it used oil the entire time you've owned it? I'm just saying that further investigation needs to be done to find a cause. The likelihood of rings failing in an engine with 75K Mi. and normal maintenance would be highly unlikely.

sapest · Aug 26, 2024

You are making my point.
I have owned the bike since new, all maintenance has been done correctly. The oil consumption started about 20,000 kms ago.
PAIR failure - what to test? a cut off valve?
Crankcase ventilation- where to look?
What further investigation might you suggest?
-Steve

sapest · Aug 26, 2024

vzhq16 said:
There a thousands of Yamaha FJR1300s out running around with a lot more miles than that and do not have an oily mess problem like that. There must be some highly unusual condition for an FJR engine to look like that. Neglected maintenance, clogged crankcase ventilation or a PAIR system failure are a few that come to mind. You likely wouldn't smell or see the oil burning issue because the cat converter will disguise it until the cat becomes too contaminated and fails. If you've had the bike for two years, do you know the bike's history before you bought it? Has it used oil the entire time you've owned it? I'm just saying that further investigation needs to be done to find a cause. The likelihood of rings failing in an engine with 75K Mi. and normal maintenance would be highly unlikely.

Another thought. Pulling the O2 sensor - if its oily, this would suggest oil ring failure?
-Steve

SkooterG · Aug 26, 2024

Overthinking this?

Every PAIR system I have pulled off several FJRs looks like this to some degree. Why? Who knows. Remove the PAIR system then ride more, stress less is my advice. Run some RingFree/Techron/Seafoam in the gas for a while.

I had one higher mile FJR that sat for a long time - a couple years. It burned oil upon getting it going again. I would have to add oil before the next 5k oil change. After hundreds, or thousands, of miles running RingFree every tank it eventually went away.

For that small amount of oil consumption I wouldn't worry too much for now. What are you going to do? A really $$$$$ ring job? Better/cheaper just to find a used replacement motor.

RossKean · Aug 26, 2024

SkooterG said:
Overthinking this?

Every PAIR system I have pulled off several FJRs looks like this to some degree. Why? Who knows. Remove the PAIR system then ride more, stress less is my advice. Run some RingFree/Techron/Seafoam in the gas for a while.

I have seen the same. Perhaps not quite as bad, but I was surprised at the gunk when I removed the PAIR to install blockoff plates. Early in the life of my 2007 and the bike never used any measurable amount of oil or had any engine-related issues in the 295,000 km that I put on before I sold it.

Dodger · Aug 26, 2024

When I ditched my pair (2017 bike) at about 50,000 kms while it was not oily there was some soot to be seen. I agree with the ring free, it it works a cheap and easy fix. BTW I was never able to bypass the check engine light that comes on with the removal of the pair solenoid, I had to simply plug it back in and leave it installed, although the "holes" are blanked off.

Lost · Aug 26, 2024

Mine looked similar to this after a long, hot 3 Flags. Temp, even overnight, didn't drop below 90 from home until I cleared Utah going north. When I did a valve check it looked like that, not quite as wet. Oil level was at the bottom of the range after 5500 miles. Hasn't done it since on my gen 1. I consider 2-300 ml normal oil consumption for 5k oil changes. Didn't you just do a long hot tour through the southwest?

vzhq16 · Aug 26, 2024

sapest said:
You are making my point.
I have owned the bike since new, all maintenance has been done correctly. The oil consumption started about 20,000 kms ago.
PAIR failure - what to test? a cut off valve?
Crankcase ventilation- where to look?
What further investigation might you suggest?
-Steve

Start with crankcase ventilation. Pressure buildup in the crankcase could push things in the wrong direction. Usually that's past a seal but, in your case could be showing up as oil in the intake runners. Making sure it's hooked up correctly and working is where I'd start. Second, I would look at the reed valves in the PAIR system. Are they working? Are they connected properly? The shop manual is your friend. If you're not comfortable doing this work yourself, a competent mechanic will be your best friend (and your wallet's worst nightmare...just kidding). I'm just saying for the mileage you have and proper maintenance performed, piston rings causing this kind of problem would be highly unusual.

sapest · Aug 26, 2024

Yes, I just came back from a long hot 2 weeks. I am about to pick up the bike (tomorrow) so I will be asking -
Was PAIR cut off valve eyeballed for cracks, proper installation? (Service Manual doesnt suggest any test)
Proper connection of all the PAIR plumbing?
Is crankcase breather hose routed correctly? cracked/damaged?

Reed valves have been cleaned and I presume re-installed correctly.

-Steve

Fred W · Aug 27, 2024

The entire PAIR system was engineered in response to a problem that doesn’t exist. It’s only purpose, believe it or not, is to get the Cats in the exhaust up to temp faster, by injecting fresh air into the exhaust stream after the exhaust valve.

Like many here, I’ve deleted the PAIR system on both of my FJRs, and a few other bikes that use the same shenanigans to achieve EPA certification. I have no use for it.

sapest · Aug 27, 2024

Fred W said:
by injecting fresh air into the exhaust stream after the exhaust valve.

This is my understanding. Comments about oil in the intake side are mis-guided. I am happy to leave it, as long as its working correctly, since it would cost $$ to remove.
When I retrieved the bike today I asked my three questions. The plumbing is all reinstalled correctly, the cut off valve is working (h’mm no test in service manual) and no one looked at breather hose. They did replace a gasket on the right side which was leaking, but are adamant that it was not leaking enough to be the cause. And I do not have any floor stains or puddles when the bike is parked.

The plan now is to put 5000 km on the bike (keeping one eye on the oil level) and then have a look at the PAIR valves again. With winter coming its going to be a few months. And at the same time check out the crankcase breather hose. It starts and runs fine and pulls just as hard as ever.

Thx for all the suggestions.
-Steve

escapefjrtist · Aug 29, 2024

Like many others, I removed the PAIR system on my last three FJRs. Cleaned up valve cover clutter for easier maintenance access. With the latest FJRs, the solenoid is left plugged in so there's no codes and the check-engine lite doesn't illuminate.

For oil consumption woes, I'm with Skooter regarding ring-free. I'd treat every tank with it for the next 5K miles. Could help, certainly won't hurt.

~G

sapest · Aug 30, 2024

escapefjrtist said:
Like many others, I removed the PAIR system on my last three FJRs. Cleaned up valve cover clutter for easier maintenance access. With the latest FJRs, the solenoid is left plugged in so there's no codes and the check-engine lite doesn't illuminate.

For oil consumption woes, I'm with Skooter regarding ring-free. I'd treat every tank with it for the next 5K miles. Could help, certainly won't hurt.

~G

Are you recommending Yamaha Ring Free, or one of the many more reasonably priced alternatives? I’m still not convinced rings are the issue. I did use Motul Engine Clean the previous two oil changes. And since I am asking questions, is there a PAIR close off kit you recommend?
-Steve

Fred W · Aug 30, 2024

Definitely, keep a close eye on oil level

My current project…

AIS- Oily mess

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