Electrical mystery / brake lights '06 FJR

vzhq16 said:

Looking back on the original reason for Gene taking the bike to a "dealer" was for brake lights that were inop after a battery replacement. We'd have to guess but, since the "tech" was looking at electrical stuff, removal/disconnection of the Skene and any other accessories would be a logical place to start but, if that didn't bring back the brake lights, tracking the 12V starting at the sockets would make sense. Who knows what the "tech" did or did not do? This is one that will likely end up being what should have been a simple repair and got missed by a "tech" that didn't start with the simple stuff and now it has snowballed into a hot mess and a bike that has sustained damage. It'll be interesting to "see" what the next dealer finds. I just feel bad for Gene.

Click to expand...

Well you're kind, and the sympathy is appreciated. I'm not gonna lose my temper over it, but I'll bet I lose a few more bucks before this is right again.

RossKean said:

I agree, but steam in the empty headspace of an incompletely filled cooling system can cause the temperature to register as hot.
Disconnected fans could be an issue although I find that mine rarely come on unless ambient temperatures are warm and the bike hasn't been moving at all for at least several minutes. Don't know what conditions the OP was experiencing in terms of temperature and duration. He mentioned that the temperature soared "almost immediately" at a stop so that sounds less likely to be fans. At least the root cause for that behavior should be easy to troubleshoot - radiator fill level and/or fan disconnected/blown fuse etc.
Still, they really messed up and I agree that there is nothing they could do that would take as much as 18 hours! Perfectly reasonable to change bulbs and disconnect brake flasher and auxiliary lights when troubleshooting something like this although they should have been put back the way they were.

Click to expand...

Yes and even if 18 hours was an exaggeration, I'm sure he put in some significant time and was genuinely unhappy that he couldn't fix it, but as others have said, when it's done, this is likely something soooooo basic as to be a "how in the actual pforque did he manage to miss THAT!?"

vzhq16 said:

No motorcycle tech would claim to have worked on any bike for 18 hours and returned it to a customer in that condition. There is no cause, need or reason to drain coolant to work on an issue with brake lights. If there were, in fact, air trapped in the cooling system, it is more likely that the temp gauge would read no or very low bars since there would be no coolant contacting the sensor. That would also cause the fans to remain off. The fact that the temp goes high when stopped and takes longer to drop once moving again indicates that the fans are not working. Since the "tech" was looking at electrical stuff, it makes more sense that they inadvertently/unknowingly/stupidly disconnected the cooling fans and failed to fully test the bike once they were "done" with it. It saddens me to see you going through this Gene, but I am convinced that whoever you've had working on the bike is an incompetent boob. I sincerely hope that whoever you take it to next is able to resolve the issues (both new and old) to your satisfaction.

Click to expand...

Thanx. Well, I'm looking around for a way to trailer it to a "Yamaha only" dealership in the Chicago suburbs. Tho they can't even look at it for a month yet. My car doesn't have a hitch, and the bed of a pick-up obv can be challenging. The local shop here in Ottawa is more of a motorcycle "store." Not so much and "official" or certified dealer. I have the sense that the young tech has maybe not been to Yamaha school. But I appreciate being able to to discuss it all with you guys! Ride safe!

Gene Weygandt said:

Thanx. Well, I'm looking around for a way to trailer it to a "Yamaha only" dealership in the Chicago suburbs.

Click to expand...

Don't think you can safely ride it there?
You might want to check the radiator fill level and check the fuse for the fans.
I would leave your brake flasher and auxiliary lights disconnected when you take it in. (Disconnection of accessories is the first thing most techs will do before trying to scope out an elusive electrical issue.)

Thanx. I have yet to check the radiator, but at the end of October it's harder to guarantee the weather here in northern IL. I have an electric jacket, but that feels like asking for trouble with the other electrical issues. It just feels more likely that I can get there for my scheduled app't with a trailer or a rented van. I believe I can rent a van for $100/day and figure a way to secure the bike inside...or so I think (rolling on the floor laughing emoji goes here)

Man Gene, I was hoping for better news than that. Seems pretty simple, 12v hot or ground. It's not a rocket... No scientist needed.
Keep us posted?

It shouldn't be rocket surgery....however, I may need Gus Grissom, Alan Shepard, and half the cast of "Chicago Med"

Small ...or maybe huge good news!!! My landlord, an HD guy offered not just his pick-up and trailer, but help loading as well!!! I can at least get it to a "real" Yamaha dealership with experience working on the FJR. Thanx everyone for talking with me. you guys know how distressing it is when shite like this happens. Ride safe!

I was out riding (maybe the last long ride before serious cold sets in) and pondering. The FJR in general has a ground problem due to spider ground connections. I'm wondering if this could be the issue? Looking for feedback from those who know the 06 specifics and more detail on the spider ground issue?

tschutter said:

I was out riding (maybe the last long ride before serious cold sets in) and pondering. The FJR in general has a ground problem due to spider ground connections. I'm wondering if this could be the issue? Looking for feedback from those who know the 06 specifics and more detail on the spider ground issue?

Click to expand...

The young tech who worked on my bike said that in this instance the Yamaha phone desk had discounted the spider ground connection issue. I won't be able to offer confirmation on this till about the end of the month when a more highly trained / experienced Yamaha tech gets a look at it. But I bet a nickel you're gonna hear me shout, from whatever your location, "How the #$#%&%#@!!!!$#%#&%$%$%#@! could they have missed THAT!!!???

Excuse my simplicity but checking the ground should be super easy. I'm not sure a call to the 'Yamaha phone desk' is necessary. You remove a light bulb, use your multi-meter set to Ohms resistance, stick one lead on the outside sleeve of the fixture, the other goes to the ground of the battery. All of those points should have been available while he was working on it. If the resistance is not single digit ohms, you have a problem, or rather you've found your problem.
Maybe this is an indicator that the tech was not super knowledgeable?

tschutter said:

Excuse my simplicity but checking the ground should be super easy. I'm not sure a call to the 'Yamaha phone desk' is necessary. You remove a light bulb, use your multi-meter set to Ohms resistance, stick one lead on the outside sleeve of the fixture, the other goes to the ground of the battery. All of those points should have been available while he was working on it. If the resistance is not single digit ohms, you have a problem, or rather you've found your problem.
Maybe this is an indicator that the tech was not super knowledgeable?

Click to expand...

You'd think, wouldn't you. But he says he'd tried all the obvious fixes as the ones you and others have mentioned as well as some more exotic stuff like the "wire harness spider thing." which I reeeeeeeaaaallly don't understand. I keep thinking they'll find something so stupid simple that we'll all say, "well duh. Of course." For now I'm resigned to waiting and agree with you that he's not "super knowledgable" about the FJR. Out it's to do with the fact that several others far smarter than I about how things work have often said "Bike electrics is the black arts. Witchcraft." Thanx for the reply to my thread...I'mma go draw a chalk circle with seven stars around the bike and burn some incense.

Gene Weygandt said:

I hope I can explain this in a way that's useful and clear. Bear in mind I'm no sort of tech and probably didn't ask the tech at the Yamaha shop enough questions for you to help, but here goes...First, a few weeks ago, I got a new Yamaha battery (BS BT 14B- 4 FA $78.95) installed in this '06 Gen II FJR. After a couple weeks of riding, I discovered my old Skene flashing brake lights ( prev owner) weren't flashing, but instead were on constantly. Then, that my factory brakes lights also weren't working. Took it to the local Yamaha dearship. The brake bulbs were burned out and he replaced. But then found out that they still didn't work as brake lights, but rather seemed to be on as running lights and and only worked as brake lights when the throttle was somewhere faster than idle, and maybe (sorry again) only when in gear and moving. So, he took the Skenes out and replaced the voltage regulator / rectifier (?) which did not solve the problem. As I said, I didn't ask all the Q's, and the tech just left for a vacation till next week. He'd "called Yamaha" ( no idea who he spoke to), and they said they were baffled by the phenomenon and could offer no help. I may be able to get more detailed info from another guy at the shop, but OBV any ideas or experience will be appreciated. TIA and ride safe!

Click to expand...

Gene, sorry just seeing this now. I was an aircraft mechanic for 32 years, with ten years experience on cars, cycles, and others before that. The first thing I'd do is spend the time, and it isn't going to be easy, but thoroughly inspect the wiring harnesses ground points. THE REASON; When the bike is running above idle, the engine electronics and fuel injection draw quite a bit more power than at idle. I think the lack of the brake light flasher unit not working is symptomatic of a bad ground some place. This can be really baffling, but a ground can cause biasing in an electrical system...... Example you may have been behind an older vehicle before and noticed when the driver applied brakes and his brake light came on, on one side, his tail light would go out.... It because the current takes the path of least resistance, so it'll find the path to ground that is, in effect, the best ground, and that causes the tail light to shut off, because it lost its ground. I know it's a little difficult to understand, but check the harnesses ground system.
My next course of action would be to check the harness in any area where it absorbs quite a bit of heat, and or is subject to moisture from any rain the bike may have gone through at any time........ Also BTW is that new battery a standard AGM, or lithium, because lithium batteries, I've heard don't work well with many bike charging systems. A cycle charging system, stator and rotor are putting out full rated power at the rated rpm, which I think on the FJR is around 4500 rpm. The voltage regulator acts as a shunt, to absorb and ground the excess power that isn't used. A lot of guys convert every light they can to LED's, thinking it'll be easier on the charging system, but actually it's harder on the voltage regulator because now the regulator has more work to do.
P.S. Make sure the tail/brake light bulbs are the heavy duty variety. Standard automotive 1157 bulbs don't last because of the vibration. If you want to avoid the Hi-dollar Yamaha tail light bulb, try tail light / brake light 1157 bulbs for an International Loadstar dump truck. That's what I use and have gotten great service life out of them.

My guess from a 1000 miles away...battery. Borrow or buy a traditional OEM battery an simply try it. My 2 cents worth.

tschutter said:

I was out riding (maybe the last long ride before serious cold sets in) and pondering. The FJR in general has a ground problem due to spider ground connections. I'm wondering if this could be the issue? Looking for feedback from those who know the 06 specifics and more detail on the spider ground issue?

Click to expand...

Ground spider S1 under the left side cover near the ECU has all rear lighting grounds (including the license plate light) running through it. IMHO an issue here would prevent the lights from working completely which is not the OP's case. The ECU also has a ground through this spider so I suspect there would be more issues than just malfunctioning lights if this spider were an issue. Faulty spiders S6 and S4, the most common ones, do not AFAIK effect rear lighting although S1 ground seems to daisy-chain through S4.

Page 1 here -> https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/my-spider-bite-story.170085/ shows Gen2 spider connections and locations.