'06 excessive driveline lash

[Jabba]

Well, I picked up my '06 last week in Ohio and rode home to Maryland the curvy way... and all was right with the world. (except for some loose steering head bearings :angry: ) but now that the bike is getting some miles on it (2300 in 9 days- not bad)... I have developed an excessive driveline lash that makes the bike a real handful in the twisties. I have adjusted the throttle cable tension three times with little effect- now I'm trying some Redline Shockproof heavy gear oil in the final drive- I've had great results with Shockproof heavy in my BMW's in the past. Has anybody else experienced SERIOUS driveline lash- and what have you done about it??? I love the bike- but this is just nuts! I've had three people ride it and all have commented on the lash effect and how unsettling it is- They should have been at Deals Gap on Saturday- Now THAT was unsettling!~ 2nd gear throttle on/off is like taking your life in your hands when the road is that tight!

Thanks for the help folks- Love the forum! sorry that my first post was a problem with my brand new scoot!

 

[jjsC6]

Mine certainly has some slop, but I don't think near to the extent of yours. Mine feels like its more a result of the fuel injection system than anything else. My ST did the same thing. I think adjusting the throttle cable can help, but I really don't feel like that is the main culprit.

It will be interesting to see what others say.

Good luck.

 

[kaitsdad]

Interesting.....

When I first picked up my bike, I had very 'jerky' starts and shifts - but as I've grown used to it, I've simply changed my right hand input - and it has smoothed out substantially.

It sounds to me like you have something out of whack - sorry I can't help more, but with my limited experience, I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to look. Were it user input, with 2300 miles you would have already adjusted your throttle hand.

Curious as to what's going on ...

 

[mindtrip]

Well, after almost 4,000 miles since 4/8, I would agree that there is driveline lash. The herky-jerky off the start is something I've been able to get used to and adjust for--this is my first fuel-injected bike, and I've had to learn how to throttle up as it is definitely more abrupt than a carbuerated bike. However, I definitely still notice a 'wiggle' from the drive, only when I'm in the middle of a turn and throttling up or engine- braking. Under either of those conditions, I definitely notice the lash; I can compensate by not throttling on hard, but I still notice it. It was at first very unsettling; I thought I'd hit a slick spot and was going to go down. I haven't owned a shaft drive bike in some time, and now that I ride harder and am used to torquing it in the twisties, I do notice the lash in a way I never did before.

I do suspect that it is driveline lash, as I only notice it in first or second gear; anything beyond that and I don't notice any wiggle in the twisties. A buddy of mine (also with 20+ years of riding experience) rode my '06 for the first time this weekend; he also commented on this very thing, but it was not enough to keep him from wanting one! B)

 

[dcarver]

I agree! When I posted my 'gee my new bike does this' diatribe, I mentioned the excessive drive line snatch. It's not gotten better. I pride myself on seamless shifting/braking/balance but on the FJR it is very difficult to reach satisfactory states in slow corners. Especially 1st, 2nd, and up to 3rd gear corners. Faster, no problem.

I've tried dragging the rear brake and maintaining throttle, slowy rolling the throttle on out of corners, but nothing seems to work well.

As I said before, my 1979 KZ1300 6 cylinder Kawasaki has less drive train snatch than the FJR and it was too much.. Same for my 84 R00T. Or the R69. Or my freaking pick up truck for that matter.

Don't get me wrong, I love this bike.. but if a Power Commander or ?? would fix this I'd be on it in a heartbeat.

Interested in hearing what others have to say..

 

[ionbeam]

Poor man's field test for excessive drive line slop --->

Place a ruler on the ground, parallel to the motorcycle right at the tip of the side stand; put bikie in 1st gear (engine off); now slowly roll the bike back and forth until it hits the limits that it can roll; read the distance in inches from the ruler (or mm depending on your orientation)

My '04 started life with ~2.5 inches of play (63.5mm), after 24k miles it now has ~2.5 inches of play. No change so far.

Throttle cable free play should be 1/8" to 1/4" max.

And yours?

 

[tstaff]

I also take pride in seemless up & downshifts, with my 03 FJR it seemed very hard to get the timing just right & it would drive me crazy when i would be sloppy & clunk my way around the gearbox. With my new 06 i feel the gear/drive line lash is the biggest improvment Yamaha has made to this bike & mine feels almost like a chain drive bike, very tight & positive shifting & much smoother than my 03 IMO.

 

[twowheelnut]

What, they took off the lash adjust on the '06's? Bummer.

 

[ionbeam]

Yamaha installed 2 1/2 lashes on my '04. I wonder if Yamaha has also improved the '06 by adding 3 or 4 lashes. Conversely, perhaps Yamaha cut parts cost and installed fewer or thinner drive line shims. I just hate it when my lashes and shims get out of sync. :blink:

 

[SilveradoSlick]

Lashes? I'm not into S&M.

Agree that tightening up the throttle cable slop helps.

I think the Power Commander helps but that may just be wishful thinking. In any event, I don't the PC solves the problem - just helps.

 

[Jabba]

"Poor man's field test for excessive drive line slop --->

Place a ruler on the ground, parallel to the motorcycle right at the tip of the side stand; put bikie in 1st gear (engine off); now slowly roll the bike back and forth until it hits the limits that it can roll; read the distance in inches from the ruler (or mm depending on your orientation)

My '04 started life with ~2.5 inches of play (63.5mm), after 24k miles it now has ~2.5 inches of play. No change so far.

Throttle cable free play should be 1/8" to 1/4" max.

And yours? smile.gif"

______________________________________________________________________________________

Good stuff- I'll do that measurement tomorrow and report what I find. Maybe a few others can make the measurement on their '06 as well? I have adjusted the throttle cable again- to the point that i have virtually zero play, but no increase in revs from lock to lock. The Redline Heavy is in there too. Seems like the bike didn't have the "THUNK" going into first before the first oil change at 600 and now it does- Does anybody know if Yam puts in a special break in oil as other manufacturers do? I'm going to go synthetic soon, I believe. I've had great results with shifting smoothness in other bikes, and I think it should smooth out this gear box too. I recall my very first impressions of the shifting on my ride home from the dealer as completely positive and I noted how much better it shifted than my BMW GS- Now I'm asking myself what I was so impressed with- it shifts just about exactly the same as the beemer. Definitely something amiss here-

 

[Fencer]

Poor man's field test for excessive drive line slop --->
Place a ruler on the ground, parallel to the motorcycle right at the tip of the side stand; put bikie in 1st gear (engine off); now slowly roll the bike back and forth until it hits the limits that it can roll; read the distance in inches from the ruler (or mm depending on your orientation)

My '04 started life with ~2.5 inches of play (63.5mm), after 24k miles it now has ~2.5 inches of play. No change so far.

Throttle cable free play should be 1/8" to 1/4" max.

And yours?

For comparison

My 06 788 miles

2 3/4 inches

 

[Jabba]

mine"s right on 2.5"... I guess I should feel some relief from that??? So does that indicate fuel mapping may be my culprit? That's where I'm leaning at this point, but I haven't had a chance to try out the new lube in the final drive housing yet.

 

[ionbeam]

Seems like your drive line lash is 'typical' and 'typical' FJRs run fine so it's time to look for something else.

Your problem could well be in the FI system. A few things that can cause similar symptoms are TB sync, binding throttle cable/throttle pulley, very lean mix, plugged air filter, bad plugs, bad plug wires, weak coil to name a few. As your bike should be under warranty and if it is at all practical, you should get it back to a dealer. Your not the only '06 owner to have this type symptom.

 

[mindtrip]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what driveline lash is--could someone explain it to me?

 

[Bike Effects]

My '03 with 15,400 miles shows 2 1/8th inches with the ruler test.

 

[Jabba]

Basically it's when you get back on the throttle after rolling off... and instead of a smooth transition from off throttle to on, you get an abrupt one that causes the trans (shaft) to "hit" or "whack" the driveline... not just spool up. There can be an audible sound, or a feeling thru the seat and pegs of a "thump" in the driveline the instant that power is being reapplied to the rear wheel. It's not "surging" as some here have stated- that's more of a feeling of intermittent or unbalanced fuel delivery that causes the engine to stutter (usually inaudible, but you feel it "hunt" for the right fuel delivery). Driveline lash effects low speed driveability- imagine getting back on the gas at the apex of a hairpin turn and having a hit go thru the rear wheel, instead of smooth, controlled input of power. Not cool!~ I guess a TB sync is next... or maybe a dealer drop off for a couple of days. The thing with this bike is that NOBODY in this market seems to have any experience working on one. And the few dealers that I've heard of handling Yamaha in this market are not exactly known for great service depts. I'd love to solve this myself without a dealer if I can. Thanks for the help guys, I already feel like I'm narrowing this down some with your help.

 

[ionbeam]

Perhaps I'm not understanding what driveline lash is--could someone explain it to me?

There is mechanical 'play' between the engine's output bevel gear and the rear wheel. Put your FJR on the center stand, click it into 1st gear (engine off), now try to rotate the rear tire back and forth. The movement you feel is gear lash. The real mechanical term is backlash but we shorthand it to lash. Most critical gear driven systems allow the use of shims to take out some to all of this play. There are several right angle turns between the engine and the rear wheel and each can contribute a little bit of play and it all adds up by the time you get to the rear wheel. The drive line backlash is specified to be taken at the rear ring gear, with the whole assembly clamped in a vice. Spec at the ring gear is 0.010 to 0.018 inches. The backlash is magnified because of the diameter difference between the ring gear and the tire. There is a somewhat involved process to shim the ring gear to reduce 'lash.

 

[twowheelnut]

My '03 with 15,400 miles shows 2 1/8th inches with the ruler test.

Hmmmm, my '57 with 2,870,500 miles (mostly short, fast trips) on it, shows 10". Is that good? :blink: