'06 excessive driveline lash

[Jabba]

and i'm working to tune the problem out of the bike.

Jabba,

Yamaha changed the throttle pulley in 06, and made it have a progressive pitch, which makes small throttle movements at just off idle have a larger effect on the throttle bodies.

I put a shim under my throttle pulley and it completly and totally eliminated the jerky throttle response. The bike is now smooth as silk at all RPMs and speeds. I can ride circles in a parking lot at 10mph with no jerky throttle inputs and can make throttle adjustments mid turn in tight corners without the jerkyness it used to exhibit.

I posted some photos of what I did in this gallery if you want to see it.

https://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/thottlepulley

I've been following your thread, Fred. I love the creativity and the "can do" attitude that it took to address your issue... I have a little fear of getting the throttle cable stuck between the pully and the copper insert- and causing an open throttle? What are your thoughts on the safety side of this mod?- Does it concern you at all? I'd be tempted to try something with more of a "U" shaped cross section as an insert- just to help insure that the cable stayed centered over the pully insert.

 

[flyinlow]

In response to all of the above threads condemning the throttle response on the FJR, I truly think it depends on where you come from in regards to riding experience. If this fix works for you, thats great, but don't scare people into thinking there is something seriously wrong with the throttle when there are many other people with the 06 FJR that have no issues with it, me being one of them. I was out riding this weekend with some friends, one on a Speed Triple, the other on a brand new R6 and I had no problems keeping up with them in the twisties. Maybe the key is one of the statements above, "riding at a relaxed pace". Maybe my relaxed pace is different from yours. Maybe my background of riding bikes is different from yours. Maybe because I ride three different bikes I have to adapt to the bikes. ON a sport bike on a track you have to learn throttle control, where to plant your bike in a corner, where to roll on the throttle, and how much to roll on. And this is different for every corner, depending on the corner type, your entry into the corner, etc.

Folks, its all about perspective. I applaud the folks who have come up with fixes to make the bike do what they want it to do. What I don't like is the attitude that "because this is what I need to do, there must be something wrong with the way it was designed". I think if you compare the folks who don't like the throttle response and their riding styles to the people who don't have an issue with the throttle response and their riding styles I think you will see a difference in how they ride.

 

[Fred H.]

If you feel your throttle is too sensitive, feel free to contact me, as I think I can show you how you can improve it. If your throttle feels fine to you, then you don't need to worry about it.

 

[Jabba]

In response to all of the above threads condemning the throttle response on the FJR, I truly think it depends on where you come from in regards to riding experience. If this fix works for you, thats great, but don't scare people into thinking there is something seriously wrong with the throttle when there are many other people with the 06 FJR that have no issues with it, me being one of them. I was out riding this weekend with some friends, one on a Speed Triple, the other on a brand new R6 and I had no problems keeping up with them in the twisties. Maybe the key is one of the statements above, "riding at a relaxed pace". Maybe my relaxed pace is different from yours. Maybe my background of riding bikes is different from yours. Maybe because I ride three different bikes I have to adapt to the bikes. ON a sport bike on a track you have to learn throttle control, where to plant your bike in a corner, where to roll on the throttle, and how much to roll on. And this is different for every corner, depending on the corner type, your entry into the corner, etc.
Folks, its all about perspective. I applaud the folks who have come up with fixes to make the bike do what they want it to do. What I don't like is the attitude that "because this is what I need to do, there must be something wrong with the way it was designed". I think if you compare the folks who don't like the throttle response and their riding styles to the people who don't have an issue with the throttle response and their riding styles I think you will see a difference in how they ride.

Have you ridden my bike??? Didn't think so~ How's that for perspective??? Four people have ridden my bike- all four have commented on the problem. Sorry if it dents your ego to think there might be an issue with some 2006 FJRs... Now we learn that there's a change in the throttle pulley on the '06 and that it is no longer a linear design??? Seems like the issue is not entirely one of perspective now, doesn't it?

 

[bmwhd]

I have over 500 miles on the bike since I modified the throttle pulley.
I have had zero problems with it, and the difference is like night and day. What I thought was drive line lash turned out to be caused by the too sensitive throttle. The bike is smooth as silk now, and I am really glad I did this modification. It has made a world of difference. The bike is so much easier to ride in a relaxed manner and take much less effort to be smooth in the tight stuff.

+1 :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

Do the "Fred Shim" and ride Smmooooooooth!!!!!!

 

[Bagger]

I gotta tell ya that I'm not happy with my dealer ... nor with Yamaha and the factory settings which make MY bike not that much fun to ride.

I won't go into everything that dismays me with the '06 FJR (which I still believe can be one great motorcycle with some tweaking), but I did stop by the dealer this AM regarding what they did NOT do.

I told the service manager that I was not happy that the tech reported that he did the BM (Barbarian Mod), the middle cable fix, or the CO change at the 600 mile/1300mile service. Telling me that it was not done is one thang ... not doing it and saying one did is another. He's on "marriage leave" presently and I'm gonna be outa town soon, so the dealer may have to do this wholeshebang again (free, no doubt), or I'll try to do it this Friday (IF I understand how to do the BM/spring mod).

Anyway ... and this is important for those with a herky-jerky shifting deal ... I adjusted my throttle cable at the inline area. And, I must say that this made a great deal of difference in low end shifting. I musta moved the down side 'barrel nut' over 1/4 inch to take some slack out of the throttle cable.

It worked a great. Shifting from 1st-2nd-3rd was much better. Not terrific, not as smooth as I would like, but MUCH better. I will prolly screw 'round with this some more. I took 1/4+ inch out of the throttle. Now, the slack is about 3 mm from what I can tell. The throttle does not race when at full left or right (I checked) and the response "on/off/on" throttle is much better. Still not as smooth as it should be ... but, eventually I'll have Fred's 'shim deal' installed and the MB/CO deal as well.

For those that hate the herky-jerky sh*t this bike has, check the throttle slack adjuster. It may make you a bit more happy with the bike. I believe this bike can be GREAT eventually ... despite Yamaha's initial tries.

BAGGER

 

[flyinlow]

""Have you ridden my bike??? Didn't think so~ How's that for perspective??? Four people have ridden my bike- all four have commented on the problem. Sorry if it dents your ego to think there might be an issue with some 2006 FJRs... Now we learn that there's a change in the throttle pulley on the '06 and that it is no longer a linear design??? Seems like the issue is not entirely one of perspective now, doesn't it?""

No, I have not ridden your bike. But if your throttle pulley is the same as my 06, then I don't see how it could be much different. I suspect that if you rode mine, you would find the same issue with it. And thats fine, if thats what you need to do to ride your bike comfortably, I don't have a problem with that. The point I was trying to make was that its not necessarily a design problem because it doesn't work for you. Its not possible to design any product that will work for every comsumer who purchases it, I don't care if you're designing bikes, cars, electronics, whatever, someone will have issue with the way something works and others won't. My whole point was that this is not necessarily a design flaw.

I don't like the way windshield goes back down when you shut the bike off or how the front storage compartment won't open unless you have the key on. I understand that there are ways to change this, but I also understand why they were designed this way and I can live with them. Some people would call these design flaws, of which they are not.

 

[Fred H.]

The point I was trying to make was that its not necessarily a design problem because it doesn't work for you. Its not possible to design any product that will work for every comsumer who purchases it, I don't care if you're designing bikes, cars, electronics, whatever, someone will have issue with the way something works and others won't. My whole point was that this is not necessarily a design flaw.

By the same argument, the design is not necessarily correct just because you don't have an issue with it. More than one person has complained about this, so it obviously is not an isolated incident. We can play this game all day long. Who is to say you are right, or I am right. If it doesn't suit the owner as is, then it is problem for that owner, and they need help finding a way to fix it.

I monitor various motorcycle message boards and motorcycle problems, and the common theme is that there is always one group of folks who don't have a probelm with something, and another that does, and it usually ends up in a battle that polarizes the owners into two camps and they start throwing rocks at each other. The end result is folks forget all about what the original problem was, and instead of spending time and energy trying to find a fix, they waste time fighting with each other about it. I have seen this scenario repeated time and time again on just about every motorcyle board I have been on, and all it does is make folks angry and waste time and effort that could be better spent on looking for a solution.

 

[Dan23]

One small shim is all it takes to fix this.

So, the throttle cable rolls up onto the shim? What's to prevent the throttle cable from either:

1. slipping off to one side or the other and becoming wedged/stuck next to the shim but remaining on the pulley with disatrous results?

2. slipping off to either side and completely off the pulley?

What's to prevent the shim from slipping out of the pulley, say after some unnoticed cable stretching, and jamming somewhere with disastrous results?

 

[Fred H.]

So, the throttle cable rolls up onto the shim? What's to prevent the throttle cable from either:
1. slipping off to one side or the other and becoming wedged/stuck next to the shim but remaining on the pulley with disatrous results?

2. slipping off to either side and completely off the pulley?

What's to prevent the shim from slipping out of the pulley, say after some unnoticed cable stretching, and jamming somewhere with disastrous results?

Yes, the cable now rides on top of the shim.

There is just enough room left for the throttle cable that it is still in the pulley trough, so it stays put. The throttle cable won't likely get wedged because I flattened the top of the copper shim with a hammer so it is not a round surface. The cable rests on the flat edge of the shim.

The shim can't slip out because of the loop I put in the front of it that anchors it on the pulley tab.

There are NO GUARANTEES that this mod is foolproof, and anytime you introduce or alter a component of the throttle system, there is always a chance something could go wrong and it could bind. I am sure there are at least 100 different ways the same thing could be accomplished. You could go after the other end, at the throttle grip itself, and make a groove in it to effectively reduce the diameter of the pulley on the grip end and accomplish the same thing. You also could remove the pulley from the throttle body, which would give you many more options in modifying it to build up a "ramp" on the front end to eliminate the progressive nature of the pulley.

If someone comes up with an alternative approach, please post it. I just was looking for a fast/cheap/easy way to do it, and this was the first idea that came to mind. So far it seems to be working well with no ill effects.

 

[Jabba]

No, I have not ridden your bike. But if your throttle pulley is the same as my 06, then I don't see how it could be much different. I suspect that if you rode mine, you would find the same issue with it. And thats fine, if thats what you need to do to ride your bike comfortably, I don't have a problem with that. The point I was trying to make was that its not necessarily a design problem because it doesn't work for you. Its not possible to design any product that will work for every comsumer who purchases it, I don't care if you're designing bikes, cars, electronics, whatever, someone will have issue with the way something works and others won't. My whole point was that this is not necessarily a design flaw.
I don't like the way windshield goes back down when you shut the bike off or how the front storage compartment won't open unless you have the key on. I understand that there are ways to change this, but I also understand why they were designed this way and I can live with them. Some people would call these design flaws, of which they are not.

We're not talking about your bike- we're talking about mine. Mine has an abrupt throttle response. Period. I've had many bikes, been riding on the street for 25 years and understand throttle modulation- so do the 3 other folks who have ridden my bike. All were veteran riders. Maybe it's a tuning issue??? Could it be possible that my (and many others') fuel injection is set differently than yours? Is it possible that some folks have their throttle cables looser than yours' from the factory? Is it possible that YOU don't thoroughly understand the problem and have NO interest in a solution because you're not having to deal with it??? IS THAT A POSSIBILITY?!? Assuming the worst from people is a pretty shitty habit to go through life with, don't you think? If this problem is not an issue for you then go find a thread that DOES concern you.

 

[SkooterG]

Jabba................

Relax

 

[bmwhd]

One small shim is all it takes to fix this.

So, the throttle cable rolls up onto the shim? What's to prevent the throttle cable from either:

1. slipping off to one side or the other and becoming wedged/stuck next to the shim but remaining on the pulley with disatrous results?

2. slipping off to either side and completely off the pulley?

What's to prevent the shim from slipping out of the pulley, say after some unnoticed cable stretching, and jamming somewhere with disastrous results?

Like Fred says, once you do this mod, you'll see that 1. and 2. above are highly unlikely (I was afraid of them too).

I think it is highly unlikely the cable could become wedged between the shim and the pulley wall. The 12 ga wire fills the pulley completely. In fact, you have to wedge it down in there to install it in the first place. I ended up using a blade screwdriver to force the shim down into the pully. It's unlikely to come out with out a fight.

I intend to monitor the cable carefully each time I pull the tank to ensure it's not wearing prematurely (though the copper shim is very soft so I doubt wear will be an issue). It can't jump the pully unless you have too much slack and even then it's unlikely because the cable is held in position above the pulley by its bracket.

 

[Fred H.]

Like Fred says, once you do this mod, you'll see that 1. and 2. above are highly unlikely (I was afraid of them too).
I think it is highly unlikely the cable could become wedged between the shim and the pulley wall. The 12 ga wire fills the pulley completely. In fact, you have to wedge it down in there to install it in the first place. I ended up using a blade screwdriver to force the shim down into the pully. It's unlikely to come out with out a fight.

I intend to monitor the cable carefully each time I pull the tank to ensure it's not wearing prematurely (though the copper shim is very soft so I doubt wear will be an issue). It can't jump the pully unless you have too much slack and even then it's unlikely because the cable is held in position above the pulley by its bracket.

I would be interested in hearing your comments on what you think of the change to the way the bike rides with the shim installed.

 

[XLR8]

Jabba, the shaft drive on the FJR takes some getting used to.

Check it out and make sure nothing is wrong. If everything checks out, learn how to ride it.

When I first got my FJR I thought similar to you. I went around a corner and when the power kicked in I thought damn! That was too abrubt.

Instead of ranting and raving about it I devoted some more time to learning about the characteristics of my new FJR. Later I installed a Power Commander. I go back and forth between a wonderfully smooth as butter GSX-R1000 and my FJR and I don't even notice the lash/slack on the FJR anymore. I've adapted as they say.

Humble out and learn about your new FJR. If that's unacceptable, then sell it.

-r

 

[Jabba]

Jabba, the shaft drive on the FJR takes some getting used to.
Check it out and make sure nothing is wrong. If everything checks out, learn how to ride it.

When I first got my FJR I thought similar to you. I went around a corner and when the power kicked in I thought damn! That was too abrubt.

Instead of ranting and raving about it I devoted some more time to learning about the characteristics of my new FJR. Later I installed a Power Commander. I go back and forth between a wonderfully smooth as butter GSX-R1000 and my FJR and I don't even notice the lash/slack on the FJR anymore. I've adapted as they say.

Humble out and learn about your new FJR. If that's unacceptable, then sell it.

-r

So was the Power Commander your way of "humbling out" or of "learning the characteristics of the bike"???

 

[XLR8]

Jabba, the shaft drive on the FJR takes some getting used to.

Check it out and make sure nothing is wrong. If everything checks out, learn how to ride it.

When I first got my FJR I thought similar to you. I went around a corner and when the power kicked in I thought damn! That was too abrubt.

Instead of ranting and raving about it I devoted some more time to learning about the characteristics of my new FJR. Later I installed a Power Commander. I go back and forth between a wonderfully smooth as butter GSX-R1000 and my FJR and I don't even notice the lash/slack on the FJR anymore. I've adapted as they say.

Humble out and learn about your new FJR. If that's unacceptable, then sell it.

-r

So was the Power Commander your way of "humbling out" or of "learning the characteristics of the bike"???

Arguing with people about this issue does nothing to solve your problem.

-r

 

[bmwhd]

I would be interested in hearing your comments on what you think of the change to the way the bike rides with the shim installed.

OK, I'll try to describe the impact of having the shim:

For me the wonderful stock '06 had a couple of minor nits with respect to the throttle. It was stiff (made my wrist sore on the way home from the dealer :glare: ) and it was non-linear.

I didn't come to understand the second issue as a problem that could be fixed until Fred started posting about it. I just assumed that's the way a 140 hp bike was supposed to feel. As Fred explained what he was trying to fix, I would go out and ride the bike specifically to look for it. To me, it was most noticeable in 1st - 3rd gear as the clutch was completing engagement after a shift. I actually thought the cause was my poor use of the clutch or that maybe the clutch was designed to lock up differently somehow than any bike I'd owned before. I know it was actually real acceleration I was feeling but it was coming on disproportionately with respect to how hard I was twisting the grip.

With the shim in place, this "surge" is gone. The bike accelerates linearly as you would expect. i.e. 1/4 turn of the throttle at low rpm feels like 1/4 turn at high rpm...predictable and smooth.

 

[painman]

I would be interested in hearing your comments on what you think of the change to the way the bike rides with the shim installed.

OK, I'll try to describe the impact of having the shim:

For me the wonderful stock '06 had a couple of minor nits with respect to the throttle. It was stiff (made my wrist sore on the way home from the dealer :glare: ) and it was non-linear.

I didn't come to understand the second issue as a problem that could be fixed until Fred started posting about it. I just assumed that's the way a 140 hp bike was supposed to feel. As Fred explained what he was trying to fix, I would go out and ride the bike specifically to look for it. To me, it was most noticeable in 1st - 3rd gear as the clutch was completing engagement after a shift. I actually thought the cause was my poor use of the clutch or that maybe the clutch was designed to lock up differently somehow than any bike I'd owned before. I know it was actually real acceleration I was feeling but it was coming on disproportionately with respect to how hard I was twisting the grip.

With the shim in place, this "surge" is gone. The bike accelerates linearly as you would expect. i.e. 1/4 turn of the throttle at low rpm feels like 1/4 turn at high rpm...predictable and smooth.

+1 Good definition bmwhd. PM. <><

 

[Ramblin Man]

I've been reading these posts trying to figure out what the problem here is. I think I may have found the problem if what you guys have posted is correct.

If people complain about abrupt throttle response and you are updating the bike to try and correct this problem, one thing you could try would be a progressive throttle design that would require more input at the right hand to open the butterflies. You could use a nautilus shaped cam or something to get this to work. Done right this would work great because it would require more input to open the throttle and therefore be less sensetive at low throttle.

What it really sounds like to me is that some of the 06's may have this cam or whatever yamaha used to achive this installed upside down or backwards, whatever. This would make throttle response very abrupt at low throttle and much slower at wide throttle.

I don't have an 06 and I don't know what yamaha used in their design, but it should require a large input from the rider to open the throttle a little, not the other way around.

just my 2 cents