06 FJR "AE"

[radman]

I beg to differ BD. As good as modern computing systems are, the intuition needed for for perfect transmission shifting just isn't there. Look at the many issues still present with fuel injection alone. Surging, cold start flooding, throttle lag and or aruptness are just a few. I drive many, many different vehicles as part of my work, evaluation for purchase is one of my fun jobs. The most common thread amongst them is the poor shift logic. They just don't enjoy driver input, love to run their own show, and damn conditions-they do as they please when they please. And worst of all, they refuse to anticipate , something they will never equal a human brain at doing-and therein lies some of their biggest faults-something we take for granted confounds the best modern engineering can provide.

 

[Windjammer]

Perhaps the computers could make the calculations if they had access to the information needed to arrive at the correct decision. So far, there's no sensor that can "see" the road ahead, factor in other conditions such as road conditions (sandy, oily, or clean & dry) and then use past experience to formulate a decision about which gear/engine speed combination is best for what's coming up.

Someday the computer might have that information, maybe someday soon. Until it does, I'll make my own gearing decisions, at least on the motrorcycle.

 

[JSimon]

I've been programming control systems for quite some time now, I'd be willing to bet the electronics are more than capable of handling gear selection based on throttle position, speed and rate of desired change vs. current rate of change. All of that information is available to the electronics.

There is a reason they decided not to do it, I just don't buy it being sub par electronics.

 

[Hoog]

Is it possible? Absolutely.

Preferable? Not for me.

There are occasions you're going to let the torque of the motor pull you along. I wouldn't want the "tranny brain" deciding to toss it down a couple gears in traffic, in a wet corner, etc. etc.

When does it decide you're trailing the throttle too long and upshift on ya?

I think the answer to why is simple, sales.

I'll choose my own gears, thank you very much.

 

[FJRocket]

Is it possible? Absolutely.Preferable? Not for me.

There are occasions you're going to let the torque of the motor pull you along. I wouldn't want the "tranny brain" deciding to toss it down a couple gears in traffic, in a wet corner, etc. etc.

When does it decide you're trailing the throttle too long and upshift on ya?

I think the answer to why is simple, sales.

I'll choose my own gears, thank you very much.

Hoog, is 38 and 44 your preferred calibers or the air pressure of your tires? Taurus your sign or your "carry"? Military dress blues or music? Like 'em ugly or just as pets? You like sports or don't like briefs (not the legal kind)? Is Missionary your calling or favorite position (hopefully doesn't correspond to the "dog" comment...)?

Man, you gotta be more specific!

 

[Toecutter]

Hoog, is 38 and 44 your preferred calibers or the air pressure of your tires?  Taurus your sign or your "carry"? Military dress blues or music? Like 'em ugly or just as pets? You like sports or don't like briefs (not the legal kind)? Is Missionary your calling or favorite position (hopefully doesn't correspond to the "dog" comment...)?
Man, you gotta be more specific!   

 

[qmotion]

Well, I dropped my 2005 FJR and the insurance is going to write it off. Looks like I'll have to get me a 2006. All the FJR 1300A's are preordered and sold at my local dealer so I'll have to take a chance on a FJR 1300AE sight unseen since the dealer has one ordered that's gonna belong to the dealer. The FJR AE's aren't expected to be available till sometime in May so it will be a while yet before I get to test all the myths.

Just to clearify to some on how it's suppose to work here is Yamaha's link:

https://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/yccs.aspx

Mel

 

[Hoog]

Hoog, is 38 and 44 your preferred calibers or the air pressure of your tires?  Taurus your sign or your "carry"? Military dress blues or music? Like 'em ugly or just as pets? You like sports or don't like briefs (not the legal kind)? Is Missionary your calling or favorite position (hopefully doesn't correspond to the "dog" comment...)?
Man, you gotta be more specific!   

Yes

 

[radman]

Electronics have made for wonderous advances in the art of motor vehicle design, of this there is no doubt. But they have their limits. How many times have you downshifted an automatic tranny and waited for what seemed an eternity for the shift to occur? Loaded the engine using the torque band for an easy uphill climb only to have the tranny bang down a gear like Bobbie Alison just challenged you? Have the tranny get confused when you suddenly lift while accelerating then reapply the throttle? A good driver, especially one familiar with the vehicle and it's powerband can, with a manual transmission, absolutely blow away an automatic in economy, shift smoothness, power utilization, and any other aspect of operation you can name. It's no trick, no secret, no bizarre slight of hand. In fact, it's because of another computer thats brought into play, of all things. One more sophisticated than any yet developed by the best science can produce. It's called "the brain"

 

[bikepoor]

I beg to differ BD. As good as modern computing systems are, the intuition needed for for perfect transmission shifting just isn't there. Look at the many issues still present with fuel injection alone. Surging, cold start flooding, throttle lag and or aruptness are just a few. I drive many, many different vehicles as part of my work, evaluation for purchase is one of my fun jobs. The most common thread amongst them is the poor shift logic. They just don't enjoy driver input, love to run their own show, and damn conditions-they do as they please when they please. And worst of all, they refuse to anticipate , something they will never equal a human brain at doing-and therein lies some of their biggest faults-something we take for granted confounds the best modern engineering can provide.

I think I would have to agree with BrunDog. The computing is there...but The machinery it is driving (cast, stamped, forged) does not have the tolerances to deliver a perfect outcome.

 

[radman]

OK.

 

[bikepoor]

Here...I love this website. I am simple minded after all.

click

 

[I'mAllIn]

The technology is definetely here. I work for Volvo Trucks North America as the District Sales Manager for the Southeast region and we've been using that technology for years. Eaton and Meritor both have automated gearboxes. It started in the mid-90s with semi-auto gearboxes. You still had to use the clutch to start and when you came to a complete stop. Other than that, you just keep your right foot planted and the "system" does the rest.

Now, the clutch pedal is gone and the gearbox does it all by itself. In reality, it's a fairly simple design. Centrifugal clutch pack, a few sensors, air-actuated shifter and voila..! I've yet to come across a truck driver that can shift as smoothly as the "automated-manual gearboxes". Those things are awesome. You still have the option to shift manual, but moving a small lever back and forth, should you need to hold a gear for whatever reason.

There's no doubt that a company such as Yamaha could develop a workable system for motorcycles. In fact, I'd say it exists already. There may be some limitations for a motorcycle, but I can't imagine that the working environment would be harsher on a bike than an 18 wheeler.

My guess is that market research, biker demographics, etc, etc are probably holding up the introduction of such a system. I was going for the AE model, but the extra wait time made the difference for me. Plus, we all know the blue bikes are faster.............

 

[radman]

I would imagine you guys look forward to the day when you don't have to deal with all the pesky irritations of riding/driving and just let these wonderous devices allow you to sit and watch Scooby-Doo on the DVD. <_<

 

[qmotion]

I would venture to say that Yamaha didn't consider going full automatic so that the rider using his own computer (the brain) make his own decision when to change the gears based his rider experience and evaluation of riding conditions. BMW uses a sequential manual transmission in the M5 and M3 models not to mention Formula1 and deployment even in the drag racing circuits. I suspect the modulation of the clutch will be very simular to the modulation of the brakes in ABS. LIke ABS the computer can modulate the clutch a lot faster than a human can. The cost and weight of a fully automatic system using the technologies currently employed would be outragous. I personally can't wait to I get my FJRAE so I can start getting familiar with it's operation. I've been squeezing clutch levers for over 30 years and it will take some getting use to.

I remember when you had to special order the option of automatic transmissions in cars. Now you have to special order manual transmissons if it's at all available. The day will come that we will have to special order a manual gear shift even in motorcycle applications. Welcome to the 21st century.

Mel

 

[bikepoor]

I would imagine you guys look forward to the day when you don't have to deal with all the pesky irritations of riding/driving and just let these wonderous devices allow you to sit and watch Scooby-Doo on the DVD. <_<

Lets see, we just shipped out 3 highend ($100,000+) fifth wheels at the RV today. What does that say about camping?

 

[BrunDog]

@Windjammer:

So far, there's no sensor that can "see" the road ahead, factor in other conditions such as road conditions (sandy, oily, or clean & dry) and then use past experience to formulate a decision about which gear/engine speed combination is best for what's coming up.

Ahhh, what? Dude, no car with an automatic transmission currently has this information, and they drive fine. What r u talking about?

@radman:

How many times have you downshifted an automatic tranny and waited for what seemed an eternity for the shift to occur?

The operative words are "automatic tranny". As in, with a torque converter. The AE is a computer operated manual.

You guys kill me. They somehow figured out how to make the computer handle the clutch feathering and engagement relative to throttle position, engine speed, and vehicle speed. Do you honestly believe they can't add in the logic of making the decision when to shift??? Are you smoking the funny stuff and not sharing??

Dude, anyone with a wit of control systems knowledge could take an off-the-shelf $200 programmable controller and add it to the AE to perform this function.

Believe what you want. We are so far apart on this trying to convince you is really not worth it.

-BD

 

[wheatonFJR]

I agree. Ride more- chat less!

 

[Hoog]

Are you smoking the funny stuff and not sharing??

Me thinks it tis you who should be sharing.

Sure a computer could operate the tranny as well as the clutch. Wide open upshifts and closed throttle downshifts would be no problem. Cruising speed shifts are very doable too, IMO. Look for this on the next LT or Wing.

But where in the powerband will it decide to shift on wet roads, or on gravel, or while I'm dragging the pegs, do they make a sensor for that? What about partial throttle and in those situations that your experience tells you to shift a little early, or delay an up or down shift. Explain it to me, I'm open to a little schoolin'

 

[FJRocket]

Hoog, is 38 and 44 your preferred calibers or the air pressure of your tires?  Taurus your sign or your "carry"? Military dress blues or music? Like 'em ugly or just as pets? You like sports or don't like briefs (not the legal kind)? Is Missionary your calling or favorite position (hopefully doesn't correspond to the "dog" comment...)?

Man, you gotta be more specific!   

Yes

That's what I thought you meant!!

( I was also expecting "all of the above"!! )