08 Transmission Question

[dbx]

...at what RPM are you shifting? FJRs are notoriously bad when shifted at low RPMs. Even my XS1100 would shift decently at 2,000 rpms but my FJR is much happier over 3500 rpms. When it was newer 4k was it's happy place.
If you are "short shifting" (at 2000 rpms, for instance) that might cause the issue you are describing.

That might be a bike-specific observation, Mike.

My 2005 shifted noticeably smoother at lower RPM, say around 2000, than it did up higher. Then again, the difference could have been that I rarely used the clutch for upshifts, I don't know.

To the OP, I would suggest finding a riding partner and swap bikes for a longer ride than what the Service Manager did. This is just to rule out any unusual shifting technique that you might be unintentionally using.

 

[08FJR4ME]

Does it ever pop out of gear while in 2nd if you crank down hard on the throttle?
Slightly askew shift fork?

Only on my XR while doing wheelies.

 

[TechJunkie]

Does it ever pop out of gear while in 2nd if you crank down hard on the throttle?
Slightly askew shift fork?

Never. It always fully engages and never slips. Down shifts are fine. It really sounds like the gear dogs skip a position or two and then engage. The next five up shifts may go fine and then the sixth may do this. It is somewhat random except it does seem to do it more when in first and coasting to a stop with the clutch in. When taking off it seems to do it and then not again for a while. When it is very hot it seems to do it a little more.

 

[TechJunkie]

I thought Momma Yami just made crappy tranny's. 1'st to 2'nd= click,click,click clack and it's in. Also noticable in other gears but not as pronounced.

Same issues on my tranny but i do have a YES warranty. Sooooooo when it really ****'s ime hoping for a new one. <_<

Very good description of the sound and what mine is doing as well. I am just over 8K and while I used to be able to hear it in 3rd and 4th sometimes it is really just 2nd now.

 

[TechJunkie]

Coming from left field....he asks....just out of curiosity....
...at what RPM are you shifting? FJRs are notoriously bad when shifted at low RPMs. Even my XS1100 would shift decently at 2,000 rpms but my FJR is much happier over 3500 rpms. When it was newer 4k was it's happy place.

If you are "short shifting" (at 2000 rpms, for instance) that might cause the issue you are describing.

I appreciate the suggestion. After much research last year I began shifting between 3k and 4K it seems to not matter. I also began to shift very firmly and it still seems to not matter.

What baffles me is when the service manager says he took it out and it is fine. I asked him to stay in town and not go interstate and make many stop and gos. This seems to bring it out. He said he did and it was fine. Obvisiously he wasn't listening or took the interstate loop to get back and declared it fine.

 

[TechJunkie]

...at what RPM are you shifting? FJRs are notoriously bad when shifted at low RPMs. Even my XS1100 would shift decently at 2,000 rpms but my FJR is much happier over 3500 rpms. When it was newer 4k was it's happy place.
If you are "short shifting" (at 2000 rpms, for instance) that might cause the issue you are describing.

That might be a bike-specific observation, Mike.

My 2005 shifted noticeably smoother at lower RPM, say around 2000, than it did up higher. Then again, the difference could have been that I rarely used the clutch for upshifts, I don't know.

To the OP, I would suggest finding a riding partner and swap bikes for a longer ride than what the Service Manager did. This is just to rule out any unusual shifting technique that you might be unintentionally using.

I thought about this. I really would love to hook up with someone from the board or another FJR rider and have them ride my bike. Someone with FJR experience. I am sure this would help me determine if it is simply the way it is or if I need to push harder.

 

[millride]

Techjunkie, you say this happens more often when you pull the clutch in and coast to a stop while in first gear.

Are you traveling at a speed faster than 20 mph or more when you bang down through the gears to get to first?

The reason I ask this is because I had a buddy that would be riding at 50 or 60 mph, maybe more, and up ahead was a stop sign or traffic light and he knew he had to take off from that light in first gear so whatever his speed was he would pull in the clutch and just bang down through the gears to get to first, no blipping of the throttle or anything and you would just hear that awfull noise of him trashing his poor tranny.

You are not supposed to get to first gear if you are at speed but I could never convince him of this and needless to say he never rode my bike :blink:

You may not do this but I wanted to just throw that out there. Its not good for the tranny.

There is a chart out there telling what speed is best for going down through the gears and I don't remember if it was in a manual for my old honda or where the hell I read it but they will snick into place if you are doing it right! YMMV <_<

 

[TechJunkie]

Techjunkie, you say this happens more often when you pull the clutch in and coast to a stop while in first gear.
Are you traveling at a speed faster than 20 mph or more when you bang down through the gears to get to first?

The reason I ask this is because I had a buddy that would be riding at 50 or 60 mph, maybe more, and up ahead was a stop sign or traffic light and he knew he had to take off from that light in first gear so whatever his speed was he would pull in the clutch and just bang down through the gears to get to first, no blipping of the throttle or anything and you would just hear that awfull noise of him trashing his poor tranny.

You are not supposed to get to first gear if you are at speed but I could never convince him of this and needless to say he never rode my bike :blink:

You may not do this but I wanted to just throw that out there. Its not good for the tranny.

There is a chart out there telling what speed is best for going down through the gears and I don't remember if it was in a manual for my old honda or where the hell I read it but they will snick into place if you are doing it right! YMMV <_<

Good question, but no I usually downshift at each gear (I know not everyone does this but I do) and usually use each gear as I am slowing at the appropriate speed. By the time I hit 2nd and 1st I am going the speed for that gear. I never downshift when the bike is rolling at a faster rate than I could let the clutch out and go at. I always want to be in a gear that I could safely let the clutch out and get on the gas should something happen that requires me to maneuver away from.

 

[millride]

That means you are doing it right, you would be amazed at the people I have watched do it all wrong :blink: It also means you aren't goofing up on your upshifts

Something is not right with the tranny. My bike had the clutch soak and when I'm in neutral and I pull the clutch in and wait about 10 seconds to put it in 1st gear it does not clunk at all, slips in like butta!

That being said, I wish I was closer so I could see and feel what is up and give you a little more ammo to head to the dealer with because they always say they can't reproduce the symptoms you describe! <_<

 

[wfooshee]

You can drop all the way down at whatever speed you want, just don't let the clutch out if you're too fast for the gear. The gears are constant mesh, the only thing changing is which dog is engaged and thus how fast the input shaft is going. With the clutch pulled, that's a "who cares?"

Absolutely nothing wrong (mechanically speaking) with clutching then banging down all the gears to first. I don't do it too early, and I am slowing down while I do it, and I'm not in too low a gear to be able to let the clutch out and ride away. It's city riding, after all, even 1st is good for almost 60.

If I'm not stopping, I don't downshift like that, I get each gear until I'm in the one I will want to use. But if I'm stopping, then at some point during the braking, I'll kick all the way down to first, bang bang bang bang. It's NOT an issue, it doesn't turn anything in the transmission any differently than it's already turning.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

You can drop all the way down at whatever speed you want, just don't let the clutch out if you're too fast for the gear. The gears are constant mesh, the only thing changing is which dog is engaged and thus how fast the input shaft is going. With the clutch pulled, that's a "who cares?"
Absolutely nothing wrong (mechanically speaking) with clutching then banging down all the gears to first. I don't do it too early, and I am slowing down while I do it, and I'm not in too low a gear to be able to let the clutch out and ride away. It's city riding, after all, even 1st is good for almost 60.

If I'm not stopping, I don't downshift like that, I get each gear until I'm in the one I will want to use. But if I'm stopping, then at some point during the braking, I'll kick all the way down to first, bang bang bang bang. It's NOT an issue, it doesn't turn anything in the transmission any differently than it's already turning.

Not quite true, I'm afraid.

When you shift to 1st at, say 60, the mainshaft and all the gears on it, the inner clutch basket and half the clutch plates will be turning at whatever speed needed to turn the engine at max revs (assuming the clutch was engaged -- which, of course, it's not). That's not the same as crankshaft rpm due to the primary reduction -- but, a lot of rpm nonetheless.

There's an old story about a car salesman who was demonstrating a car and was showing the prospective buyer how good the manual transmission synchronizers were on a test drive. He thought that if he shifted to low gear at speed and didn't let-out (engage) the clutch he couldn't over-speed anything. He got up to, say 60, and slipped the gear shift lever into 1st (and kept the clutch dis-engaged). Well, on a car (or, BMW R-bike), unlike an FJR, the clutch spins at engine speed. So..., when the salesman performed his demo-feat, the car's mainshaft and, attatched, clutch disc were spun in excess of max engine revs (even though dis-engaged). The clutch disc promptly exploded.

I'm not saying bad things will happen to your FJR if you do those things -- just that it's not without consequences.

 

[wfooshee]

I hear what you're saying, and I'm not talking to excess. I'm not going to drop to first from at 130, but I'm trying to point out that there's nothing wrong with kicking consecutively through the gears as you come to a stop rather than shifting through them one at a time, and at anything less than exuberant highway speed you're still in range of first gear anyway.

My first paragraph should have taken the clutch centrifuge into account and didn't.

This morning I paid some attention to the speeds involved as I came up to a few lights, and one was from a bit over 50, and the others weren't worth talking about, I was in 30 and 35 zones then. But as I approached the light at a tick over 50, it conveniently changed, I started braking, and about halfway to the light from the application of brakes, I checked my six again, clutched and gave the shifter 4 kicks, and pulled up to my stop.

That's the process millride was describing, and saying was bad for the tranny. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, though. There's no mechanical requirement for engaging the clutch at each shift, the transmission could care less.

A synchro box in a car, that's a different story. Keep the synchros spinning by catching each gear on the way down, maybe skipping a ratio, but probably not 2 or 3 ratios. (i.e. not 5th to 2nd directly, but 5th to 3rd, then another shift to 2nd.)

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>...I'm trying to point out that there's nothing wrong with kicking consecutively through the gears as you come to a stop rather than shifting through them one at a time, and at anything less than exuberant highway speed you're still in range of first gear anyway.

Yes, the FJR's 1st gear is good for about 60 mph -- but, the MamaYama FJR owner's manual states: "To Decelerate: 2. Shift the transmission into first gear when the motorcycle reaches 15.5 mph."

This morning I paid some attention to the speeds involved as I came up to a few lights, and one was from a bit over 50, ...I checked my six again, clutched and gave the shifter 4 kicks, and pulled up to my stop. That's the process millride was describing, and saying was bad for the tranny. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it, though. There's no mechanical requirement for engaging the clutch at each shift, the transmission could care less.

It really has nothing to do with whether or not the clutch is engaged -- the transmission mainshaft (and everything on, and attatched to, it) will spin at (or near) max revs when 1st gear is selected at a high (near max for 1st) road speed.

A synchro box in a car, that's a different story. Keep the synchros spinning by catching each gear on the way down, maybe skipping a ratio, but probably not 2 or 3 ratios. (i.e. not 5th to 2nd directly, but 5th to 3rd, then another shift to 2nd.)

Synchronizers (or, lack of) has nothing to do with the issue at hand -- there have been motorcycle gearboxes with rudimentary synchros and automotive trans. w/o synchros ("crash-boxes"); "red herring".

As stated in a previous post: "I'm not saying bad things will happen to your FJR if you do those things -- just that it's not without consequences."

Continuous max revs of the mainshaft (and, clutch inner basket & 1/2 the plates) may have detrimental effects -- over time?

 

[Bounce]

What baffles me is when the service manager says he took it out and it is fine. I asked him to stay in town and not go interstate and make many stop and gos. This seems to bring it out. He said he did and it was fine. Obvisiously he wasn't listening or took the interstate loop to get back and declared it fine.

or... as he said, it was not anything out of the ordinary. at only 8k things are still breaking in (even you note that this used to happen in other gears but has lessened/stopped as the miles pile up). so not "obviously" but 2 of several possiblities.

it sounds to me like a standard Yamaha beefy transmission on the FJR. at 8k you now are to the point where you can swap in some synthetic oil and the shifting will smooth out some compared to dino oil.

 

[wfooshee]

It really has nothing to do with whether or not the clutch is engaged -- the transmission mainshaft (and everything on, and attatched to, it) will spin at (or near) max revs when 1st gear is selected at a high (near max for 1st) road speed.
As stated in a previous post: "I'm not saying bad things will happen to your FJR if you do those things -- just that it's not without consequences."

Continuous max revs of the mainshaft (and, clutch inner basket & 1/2 the plates) may have detrimental effects -- over time?

I'm trying to back away from the "max revs" or "any speed" position I implied in my first post. I agree that spinning clutch parts at 73,000 RPM is a Bad Thing.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with kicking down 4 times straight as you come to a stop, given that the bike's speed is low enough to keep the clutch parts from flying out, which is easily anything under 40. But like I said, I'll do my kickdowns in the 30's or so while on the brakes for my stop.

I'm not trying to contravene what you're saying about the whizzing clutch parts, as I agree with you, and didn't account for clutch in my first post, just smaller tranny parts. Overspeeding the clutch parts can be bad, although I'm sure they'll take a lot more overspeed than the engine will, being a fairly small-diameter multi-plate clutch as opposed to the much larger single plate in most cars. But even the whizzing of the discs past the pressure plates can generate significant heat and wear if the tranny's spinning real fast. A clutch disengaged is not a clutch not touching anything.

I'm trying to contravene millride's "don't kick all the way down" statement. There's no reason to engage each gear on the way down rather than kicking all the way through them. That's the point I was trying to make.