2 bikers down

[radman]

I'm all for strong penalties with blatent negligence. Cell phones in vehicles should be illegal.

So should impaired driving. And illegal left turns. Passing on the right. Inattentive driving. Too fast for conditions. Following too close. Failure to yield. Oh wait, they are.........

 

[sparky3008]

Not picking on the old folks, but more stringent driver testing and training for ALL drivers would go a long way to improving safety on the roads for everyone. It's WAY too easy to get (and keep) a driver's license.

x 1000 on that.

People suck and they can't drive. I just love the comment, "I've been driving for 30 years, I know what I am doing". That is being complacent and full of tripe.

Seniors must be retested. They can be dangerous.

New drivers need harder testing and more education.

I'm all for strong penalties with blatent negligence. Cell phones in vehicles should be illegal.

Anyway, driving is a priviledge, not a right. Pay attention.

My best friends Dad is in his early 80's, has suffered 2 heart attacks and trips on the smallest things. He was in DC a while back walking with his son and tripped on a pebble and fell flat on his face. He is a very weak old man to say it polite, yet he still gets in his car and drives anywhere he wants. You telling me a man who can't pick his feet up over a pebble has enough in him to raise his foot to hit the brake and enough reaction time to avoid anything that might pop out in front much less even start to talk about his vision.

I will some day be old (if I am lucky), and I will someday slow down and start to lose my eye sight. When this day slowly creeps up on me I hope I am of enough mind to realize I shouldn't be out driving a car.

The friend I mentioned that just bought the 03 Harley suffers from Diabetes very badly. He is disabled and has been out of work for years. It started with him losing his ability to walk or to use his legs properly and was doing autoglass. Now he is constantly having laser eye surgery to stop his eyes from going blind. Just 2 days ago I spoke with him and he said the day before he wanted to go ride but he was suffering with his legs again and was afraid he wouldn't be able to keep the bike up. Now I am not going to say anything about my friend because I am sure all of us know what I am getting at. I love him like a brother and hope nothing happens to him and I know it may be one of his life long dreams and should it be taken from him?

I know I am all over this thread but it is a tough subject. I don't think we have a very good education system when it comes to driving anything. When learning to drive a tractor-trailer I spent 5 days a week 8 hours a day for 4 weeks learning. Then I got my first job where I spent another month riding with a trainer. Then I spent another 2 weeks watching video's and going through what is know as coil training learning about how positioning of these huge 50000lb coils not positioned and tied down properly can roll over you like a tin can. 10 weeks later I still wasn't very good and spent the next oh 6 months to a year before I ever really felt like I knew what I was doing.

Those that get a car license don't have to really do much of anything. I got my car license without ever taking a class.

I drive by people every day on the highway that never so much as move their head much less use their mirrors or know what is going on around them. Moving from a car to a motorcycle for most means getting a bike and going and taking the test until you pass. Most never have any additional training, they think they know enough already after all they can drive a car.

Ever gone into a Harley/BMW dealer and seen SOLD signs on bike?. Ever asked why they are still sitting there? I have. One salesman told me they were all sold to people who were still trying to get their license and then they would be back. Amazing that these rich morons think they should have a 800lb bike or a 120hp bike as their first and they have never had a bike before in their life...

Life lost on the streets of the USA is more than any WAR. We protest wars like IRAQ, Vietnam wherever because of the loss of life. Car accidents claim more each year and yet we really haven't made a huge stand to do anything about it.

Off my box now.

 

[radman]

Life lost on the streets of the USA is more than any WAR. We protest wars like IRAQ, Vietnam wherever because of the loss of life. Car accidents claim more each year and yet we really haven't made a huge stand to do anything about it.
Off my box now.

Thats because there is no political advantage to be gained from it. As soon as Kennedy or Pelosi (plus any conservative for that matter, but no one screams indignities like a lefty) gets center punched by a drunk, America will be on this like stink on shit, mark my words.......

 

[motorgod]

As an LEO who is part of a fatal accident team and who routinely reveiws accident reports, I often send drivers to DMV for re-testing. I have about a 60% success rate on getting drivers licenses pulled from the people I send to DMV. I do it to for selfish reasons...my family and I drive these same roads where the driver "didn't realize he (the other driver) had the right of way." or " I didn't see the red light." Just trying to survive.

 

[motorgod]

Thats because there is no political advantage to be gained from it.  As soon as Kennedy or Pelosi (or any conservative for that matter, but no one screams indignities like a lefty) gets center punched by a drunk, America will on this like stink on shit, mark my words.......

I know you are not calling Kennedy and Pelosi conservative...them are fightin' words (I wouldn't count on Kennedy...he drives drunk and lets car crash victims drown......) :assasin: :assasin: :assasin:

 

[radman]

No, I just didn't want it to look like I was just pickin on the lefties. I'll rephrase it somewhat.

 

[sparky3008]

No, I just didn't want it to look like I was just pickin on the lefties. I'll rephrase it somewhat.

Actually motorgod I thought Radman was volunteering to make himself a martor for the cause :lol:

 

[Toecutter]

Motorcyclists have to be better drivers than other types and many are not.

I don't know how to say any better than I have that we have to be better than average drivers and we have to stay alert. Riding motorcycles on the street is not like riding a bicycle in a park. As soon as we start that engine we take our lives in our hands. It is our job to be as well trained and as well informed with the latest in defensive driving techiques and you maybe surprised to find how many people don't know what that even means...

And who here doesn't know some biker that has been in a single-vehicle crash or at least contributed to the fault of hitting someone else (like in the vast majority of lane-sharing mishaps). When we here in CA lose that privelege, it will be our own fault. I've seen guys doing 30 or 40 mph faster than the rows of cars that surround them.

By buying my bike, I signed on for the extra risk, knowing full well what I was up against in traffic. Louder horns (which I have) may help, but don't ever let that button distract you from self-survival. Loud pipes, gimme a break. They may keep a pedestrian from stepping out in front of the noise polluter, but that's about it. I have twin ear-bleeder air horns in the front bumper of my fire engine and even then we get the regular well-insulated music-playin' craniorectal road droid that almost needs a tap from behind to notice us.

In 23 years of being a carnage janitor, I can't say that I've seen an actual accident yet. Somebody usually does something to cause each collision. We could all benefit from a better system. I joined the AMA. It's a start, and I figure it gives me a right to voice an opinion on this matter. Wow, the politics of motorcycles, something (legal and interesting) to talk about!

 

[sparky3008]

Funny you mention the horns.

After I put my mega blasters on my very next ride I had 2 cars come right into my lane. My instinct was not to push the button but to make a lane change to avoid the problem. I rarely use the horn so it is not my first choice moving is my first instinct but the horns are nice to have and were fun to put in.

 

[azbikergirl]

The only way that a motorcycle will be as visible as an automobile, is when it becomes as large as an automobile.

I have a hard time imagining that all of us have trouble seeing motorcycles coming toward us when we're wanting to make a left turn. It's not about being able to see them; it's about PAYING ATTENTION. As drivers (no matter what we drive) we have to be aware of what's around us and what's coming into our path, whether it's a motorcycle, kid on a tricycle, or someone's little Fluffy who snuck out of the yard. It's called Being Responsible.

As bikers, we do have to be more alert because of the jokers out there who aren't paying attention (or who hate motorcyclists and want to kill us all). There'll probably always be auto drivers who "don't see" a motorcycle, but there must be something we can do to heighten awareness. Take public service commercials on TV, for instance. I've never seen a single one. Would it do any good? We won't know until we try.

 

[sparky3008]

The only way that a motorcycle will be as visible as an automobile, is when it becomes as large as an automobile.

I have a hard time imagining that all of us have trouble seeing motorcycles coming toward us when we're wanting to make a left turn. It's not about being able to see them; it's about PAYING ATTENTION. As drivers (no matter what we drive) we have to be aware of what's around us and what's coming into our path, whether it's a motorcycle, kid on a tricycle, or someone's little Fluffy who snuck out of the yard. It's called Being Responsible.

As bikers, we do have to be more alert because of the jokers out there who aren't paying attention (or who hate motorcyclists and want to kill us all). There'll probably always be auto drivers who "don't see" a motorcycle, but there must be something we can do to heighten awareness. Take public service commercials on TV, for instance. I've never seen a single one. Would it do any good? We won't know until we try.

Not to be argumentative but have you taken the Motorcycle safety course?

In that course in Maryland it was instructed by a motorcycle cop.

They specifically mention that it is difficult to see motorcycles going in a straight line as our eyes are not accustom to focusing on motorcycles and they go into showing how it is our responsibility to move within the lane to make ourselves visible.

Part of what is known as defensive driving...

 

[sparky3008]

Ever had someone in a car look straight at you and you think they see you but they come over anyway. It does not trigger in their minds that you are really there. Motorcycles are still rare enough that the human mind is focusing more on automobiles not bikes.

Also ever watch some of the training videos of cops on their course and objects pop up in front of them. As normal citizens we don't ever think of this and when it happens our minds and bodies being never practiced sometimes won't react at all.

Martial arts is a perfect example of constant training so that when something happens you react not think. Thinking takes too long, reacting is instinctive.

https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/msb/web-cyc.htm in this link it mentions cars not use to looking for motorcyclists. It is a mental issue as much as anything else.

 

[FJR1300Jeff]

After I put my mega blasters on my very next ride I had 2 cars come right into my lane. My instinct was not to push the button but to make a lane change to avoid the problem. I rarely use the horn so it is not my first choice moving is my first instinct but the horns are nice to have and were fun to put in.

Yep me too I just move over....Very rarely even get real upset I just expect it.

I have in the past

In my younger dummer days

I actually got in front of cars and hit the brakes, to show my dismay....Luckly they swerved and missed me.....What was I thinking???? :eh:

 

[black mamba]

Hey Sparky...

You just don't seem to get the picture at all. All you can do is stress the value of defensive riding. WE ALL AGREE!!! A defensive mindset is critical.

But that's not what this thread is all about. It's about holding people responsible for their actions. PLEASE....no more crap about why these poor people can't see us and why we should almost feel quilty for not getting out of their way. You start putting some of these idiots in jail for killing us and you'll be surprised at how quick they start " seeing " motorcycles. The time is way overdue for the judicial system to come down hard on those offenders.

 

[azbikergirl]

Not to be argumentative but have you taken the Motorcycle safety course?
In that course in Maryland it was instructed by a motorcycle cop.

They specifically mention that it is difficult to see motorcycles going in a straight line as our eyes are not accustom to focusing on motorcycles and they go into showing how it is our responsibility to move within the lane to make ourselves visible.

Part of what is known as defensive driving...

Uh huh. Intermediate and Experienced. Nine years actual riding experience (not counting the time between bikes).

I didn't mean to say we aren't physically hard to see -- I've been riding long enough to know that I'm a speck compared to the semi next to me (and I hope I don't end up a speck on his front grille!). I meant that people in general don't look for bikes. They look for cars. They are unaware of motorcycles as they cruise down the road yakking on their cell phones. I see bikes. Why can't others? It's got less to do with being hard to see and more to do with heightened awareness. If you're looking for bikes, you will see them.

Just like we as a society have become aware of the need to designate a driver when we drink, to talk to our kids about drugs and smoking, etc. etc. etc., we need to educate the public about motorcycles. They need to learn to look for motorcycles. That's NOT to say we don't need to drive defensively!

You live in MD where people probably don't ride as frequently as they do here in the Phoenix metro area. Still, with our undoubtedly larger MC population, people just aren't freaking paying attention to bikes.

 

[sparky3008]

Not to be argumentative but have you taken the Motorcycle safety course?
In that course in Maryland it was instructed by a motorcycle cop.

They specifically mention that it is difficult  to see motorcycles going in a straight line as our eyes are not accustom to focusing on motorcycles and they go into showing how it is our responsibility to move within the lane to make ourselves visible.

Part of what is known as defensive driving...

Uh huh. Intermediate and Experienced. Nine years actual riding experience (not counting the time between bikes).

I didn't mean to say we aren't physically hard to see -- I've been riding long enough to know that I'm a speck compared to the semi next to me (and I hope I don't end up a speck on his front grille!). I meant that people in general don't look for bikes. They look for cars. They are unaware of motorcycles as they cruise down the road yakking on their cell phones. I see bikes. Why can't others? It's got less to do with being hard to see and more to do with heightened awareness. If you're looking for bikes, you will see them.

Just like we as a society have become aware of the need to designate a driver when we drink, to talk to our kids about drugs and smoking, etc. etc. etc., we need to educate the public about motorcycles. They need to learn to look for motorcycles. That's NOT to say we don't need to drive defensively!

You live in MD where people probably don't ride as frequently as they do here in the Phoenix metro area. Still, with our undoubtedly larger MC population, people just aren't freaking paying attention to bikes.

Sorry mis understood.

 

[sparky3008]

Hey Sparky...
You just don't seem to get the picture at all. All you can do is stress the value of defensive riding. WE ALL AGREE!!! A defensive mindset is critical.

But that's not what this thread is all about. It's about holding people responsible for their actions. PLEASE....no more crap about why these poor people can't see us and why we should almost feel quilty for not getting out of their way. You start putting some of these idiots in jail for killing us and you'll be surprised at how quick they start " seeing " motorcycles. The time is way overdue for the judicial system to come down hard on those offenders.

Sorry but I do get your point as much as I hate to say it there are all kinds of things happening on the road that legislation will never solve so in the mean time Defensive driving is all we have.

And neither you nor I know if it could have been avoided or not. Do you not think that cars get pulled out in front of all the time so it is a driving issue not just MOTORCYCLES!!!

Do the motorcycle cry if you want but it is not special to them!!!

 

[azbikergirl]

Hahaha! That's true. Sometimes people pull out in front of me in my Dodge Ram, and I think to myself, "If they do it to me in my truck, they'd do it to me on my bike, too." Some people will always be jerks.

 

[sparky3008]

Hahaha! That's true. Sometimes people pull out in front of me in my Dodge Ram, and I think to myself, "If they do it to me in my truck, they'd do it to me on my bike, too." Some people will always be jerks.

People are always amazed when I tell them people seem like they don't see me in my 2500 Dodge 4x4 quad.

Of course I don't think it is so much they don't see me as they think I am probably big and slow and they can get away with it.

Little do they know my Diesel can haul some serious butt when it wants too.

 

[odot]

hey, sparky....tell me about the mega blaster install and price.....am interested in scaring the crap out of other cagers.