2006 A model and sticking clutch

[SnowmobileGuy]

This topic has been somewhat beaten to death, but I want to revisit it specifically for the 2006 A models. It seams the Yamaha has admitted to an assembly grease issue on some of the later models and it seems a lot of 2007 and 2008 owners got an improvement with the sticking clutch issue with a clutch cleaning and soak. I have a 2006 A model and the bike lurches forward from a stop when shifting into first even with the bike warm. The 1st to 2nd shift an also be a bit rough and takes an extremely forceful shift to perform smoothly. It is much rougher than any of my other bikes except when compared to my BMW R1100R (a bike known for it rough shifting and has a dry clutch).

I've bleed the clutch hydraulics and have the clutch lever all the way out. Both helped a bit, but there still seems to be a bit of clutch drag. These are obviously wet clutches and thus there will always be some viscous drag, but it seems excessive when compared to my other bikes with wet clutches. Have any of you with 2006 models done the clutch soak and noticed a long lasting reduction in clutch drag?

Thanks.

 

[FJRBluesman]

You don't mention how bad the lurch forward is. You also don't mention how bad the shift or clunk into gear is. I must admit, the FeeJ is worse than many other bikes, but... My point it is, are you being too picky about this comparing it to a totally smooth shifter or is it real bad and possibly dangerous when it lurches forward. :blink:

You seem to have done most things except the clutch soak. I would think that's the next logical step.

Good luck.

BTW - A person from the forum documented this clutch soak operation, very helpful.

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

I will likely end up trying that, but am trying to get a feel for the value of that effort. I haven't seen any evidence here on the forum that 2006 was victimized by the assembly lube issue of some of the later year models. I'm looking to to see if some 2006 owners got positive results from trying this and if those positive results endured.

 

[dcarver]

Sorry, not much help. My 06 shifted nice from the get-go, however, at 145k miles I added my first bit o' STP during a routine oil change - what a remarkable difference. Radman was right - it really makes the shifting buttery-smooth. Err, warm, been in the sun buttery smooth!

 

[mcatrophy]

QUOTE (SnowmobileGuy @ Aug 15 2010, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will likely end up trying that, but am trying to get a feel for the value of that effort. I haven't seen any evidence here on the forum that 2006 was victimized by the assembly lube issue of some of the later year models. I'm looking to to see if some 2006 owners got positive results from trying this and if those positive results endured.

That was my clutch soak pictorial "how to" on my '06 that FJRBluesman referenced.

It certainly made clutch operation much more consistent, on mine it was well worth the effort. Of course, there's no guarantee that it will help yours, but it does show that at least some '06s can benefit.

I assure you that the job is quite easy; if you've done anything with a spanner (sorry, wrench

) before, you can do this, it only costs the price of the gasket and an hour or so of your time.

 

[Fred W]

Sorry, not much help. My 06 shifted nice from the get-go, however, at 145k miles I added my first bit o' STP during a routine oil change - what a remarkable difference. Radman was right - it really makes the shifting buttery-smooth. Err, warm, been in the sun buttery smooth!

hmmm... tell me more. How much is "a bit?"

(and how warm is the buttah?)

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

FJRBluesman,

I would admit that I'm perhaps being a bit picky, but not unreasonably so. I use to be an engineer (sled cooling, fuel tanks) at a powersports company. I've owned quite a few motorcycles and presently have 6 in my garage and have benchmarked a few when I was in the industry. It is not the worse I've experienced, but it is far from the best. BMW K75's and R259 BMW R bikes are worse for sure. It just when comparing with bikes of similar displacement and likely similar drivetrain inertia (i.e. ZX-11, GTS1000, ST1300, ST1100, CBR1100) it is stubborn.

There is no safety issue. Also, if you pull in the clutch and pause, the issue is lessened or eliminated like others on the forum have noticed.

If some folks have seen a benefit with their MY06 bikes, I will try it. If they universally haven't, I'd consider other options. I'm trying to get the bike to be as good as it could be. It simply a value of effort consideraton.

mcatroph,

Good pictorial. I'm not afraid of the job in the slightest. Most motorcycle clutch jobs are easy. I just wanted to see if anyone had success before ordering a gasket and spending the hour or so. It appears you have, so I'll be ordering the gasket tonight. Thanks.

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

Clutch cover gasket is on order. I'll do the soak once it gets delivered and report back with my results.

 

[dcarver]

Sorry, not much help. My 06 shifted nice from the get-go, however, at 145k miles I added my first bit o' STP during a routine oil change - what a remarkable difference. Radman was right - it really makes the shifting buttery-smooth. Err, warm, been in the sun buttery smooth!

hmmm... tell me more. How much is "a bit?"

(and how warm is the buttah?)

4 quarts dino oil topped of with STP. How much is that? Don't recall right now, maybe 12 oz? Try it..

Agree with OP - clutch soak. My yz426 had exact same problem solved.

 

[Fred W]

Sorry, not much help. My 06 shifted nice from the get-go, however, at 145k miles I added my first bit o' STP during a routine oil change - what a remarkable difference. Radman was right - it really makes the shifting buttery-smooth. Err, warm, been in the sun buttery smooth!

hmmm... tell me more. How much is "a bit?"

(and how warm is the buttah?)

4 quarts dino oil topped of with STP. How much is that? Don't recall right now, maybe 12 oz? Try it..

Sounds good, I will. Maybe as soon as today. I'm due for a change (in oil that is).

I run the Rotella 15W40 dino juice and that comes in a gallon jug, so the STP make-up will work perfectly.

Thanks!!

 

[BkrK12]

Just a suggestion. I kow it sounds dumb, but it has worked for me. Try bleeding the clutch again and give it a try. If that doesn't help, try bleeding it again. On a couple of occasions, I have had to go back and do it three or four times before getting good results. It doesn't take long and it doesn't cost much. It isn't like the brakes, where you're squeezing against a hard stop and something different seems to happen when the rod moves in.

Like I said, doesn't cost much to try it.

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

I did the soak this past Saturday. I cleaned the friction plates with brake cleaner as a few had some gunk between the raised friction pads. I'm not sure if the gunk was just worn friction material or some assembly lube. I didn't quite let the friction disk soak over night. I left them in the bag with Honda GN4 10W40 for about 5 hours. There was no improvement in shift quality. Just for the hell of it, I bled the clutch hydraulic circuit again. Unlike with the first bleed, there was no improvement the second time around. The first bleed (before the clutch soak) yielded a slight improvement.

Basically, I'm now just being extremely deliberate about my shifts. When upshifting, I'll pull in the clutch lever, pause for a moment, and then forcefully pull up on the shift lever. Note that I have already biased the shift lever down. It was actually the first thing I tired. Generally the shifts are OK (although loud), but shifting from 1st to 2nd at ~6000 rpm or higher is pretty rough. It goes in, but you feel lots of kick-back at the shift lever and once in a while there is a slight grind. In general, all upshifts take more effort than any bike I've owned. It's also rougher than most of my bikes and just about any bike I've ever ridden with the exception of the K75S and maybe my R1100R. My R1100R is rough and noisy, but doesn't require the lever effort that the FJR does especially in that 1st to 2nd shift. The R1100R has a lot more miles than the FJR (45k vs. 13K).

There was one benefit to doing the clutch soak. I found out that one of the holes in the ignition timing cover was stripped. If you've pulled out your clutch for any reason, you know there is one fastener on the timing cover that holds a hose strain relief clamp in place. You need to bend that clamp back to get the hose away from the front of the clutch cover. Went I pulled the fairing panel, the clamp was already off the hose (i.e. hanging downwards) and the fastener was loose. It spun freely in place and generated no torque. I ended up pulling the timing cover and putting a heli-coil in there (I happen to have M6 heli-coils on hand). The cover had been off before for some reason as the previous owner or his mechanic had reused the gasket and put liquid gasket (looks like Hondabond, Yamabond, or Threebond) on the gasket interfaces. I didn't have a new gasket on hand, so I ended up doing the same thing with Hondabond. I tighten the cover fasteners to the spec in the manual (just under 9 ft-lbs) which I suspect the previous owner didn't. I'm curios as to why he pulled the cover. Perhaps he was fixing a leak. I bought the bike at Bob's BMW and never met the previous owner, so I guess I'll never know.

On a different thread, one poster said he put in a Barnett clutch and had very positive results. I'm contemplating trying that. Has anyone else tried that? It would only expect that to work if the plates were slightly thinner, had different oil retention characteristics, or had a different coefficient of friction vs. pressure curve.

 

[canyonman]

Have you tried running a synthetic oil? seems you have tried everything else, might be worth a try.

 

[Fred W]

This past Sunday I disassembled my 1st gen's clutch for an inspection too. I did it primarily because of the "klunk" it has always made when going into 1st gear from neutral. Mine has always shifted fine between gears, so I have no complaints there.

None of my plates were stuck together with anything but oil. No black goop anywhere. When I wiped them off I could feel some grittiness in the grooves on some, like was mentioned above. I would say that is just small pieces of the friction material that broke off a long time ago.

Reassembled, and as would be expected, there is no change. But now I know the thing isn't 1/2 way stuck together and is operating as well as this clutch design can. I've already got in the habit of stopping the bike and re-starting it in gear as much as feasible so that I don't have to do the "klunk". Slamming those gear dogs like that can't be especially good for the tranny.

I'd also be interested if someone finds a clutch kit that makes a radical difference in how well the clutch releases.

 

[fjr183]

I'm on my 4th fjr now. The 03, 06a clunked going into 1st. The 08ae was alot better and 10a almost everytime, will not clunk.

Your problem with hard shifting, I think is some roughness the PO may have done when shifting.

The addition of STP or Lucas additives maybe an improvement. The book calls for 4.25 qts with filter chg. Maybe try the additive for the .25 qts.

Fred

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

I'm a little hesitant about using additives. I'll have to do a bit of reading and make sure the ingredient list doesn't contain anything fishy (e.g. like excessive amounts of amines which can increase seal wear). If there is a root cause I can fix, I'd tend to go that route first. The additives seem like a bandaid. But who knows, maybe a bandaid is the best solution. I saw a few posts (on another forum) where users swore by the additives. For those watching this thread, how many have tried the STP or Lucas thing? How did it work.

 

[TechJunkie]

I'm a little hesitant about using additives. I'll have to do a bit of reading and make sure the ingredient list doesn't contain anything fishy (e.g. like excessive amounts of amines which can increase seal wear). If there is a root cause I can fix, I'd tend to go that route first. The additives seem like a bandaid. But who knows, maybe a bandaid is the best solution. I saw a few posts (on another forum) where users swore by the additives. For those watching this thread, how many have tried the STP or Lucas thing? How did it work.

I posted on my similar thread about moving to Rotella T6 and STP. I would have to say that overall my Feejer is shifting easier and smoother than it ever has. I guess that is why the occasional gear dog barking when going from 1st to 2nd bothers me, especially if revving high in 1st and then going to 2nd. Might do it twice and then not again for ten similar shifts. Otherwise I would say the the Rotella T6 and STP has made my bike shift the best it has. I also get much less of the clunking when shifting to 1st. I haven't soaked my clutch plates yet but it is on my list. I think I will stick with this oil additive mix for now and after the clutch soak and see if I can work out the dog barking issue as well. Really, that is the only issue I have had with my Feejer.

 

[fjrjonesing]

Have you tried running a synthetic oil? seems you have tried everything else, might be worth a try.

This did the trick for me. I switched to a semi-synthetic oil and the sticking went away immediately.

JimO

 

[SnowmobileGuy]

I decided to try a change of oil. I didn’t have much hope for success, but I don’t know what the previous owner put in the bike and I don’t know when he last changed it although it was pretty clear when I bought the bike from Bob’s BMW. In addition, Bob's indicated that they didn’t change the oil when they got the bike, so I justified doing an oil and filter change. I decide to try Motul 300 V 10W40full synthetic.

I might be able to convince myself that it made a difference, but without any good metrics it’s really hard to tell. It “seems” slightly smoother when engaging the dogs, but the roughness in the tranny is still there. It still occasionally lurches forward when going into first from a standstill and the 1st to 2nd shift needs to be deliberate, quick, and reasonably well timed RPM-wise to avoid “barking dogs”. I would say it’s not worth the extra cost for the next oil change.

I did try biasing the shift lever down more than I had already done. I have it down to the point where initially it was slightly awkward to get my boot under the lever (I got used to it). Yes this did help, but it was no game changer.

About the only things I haven’t tired is changing the clutch disks or putting a shim between the slave cylinder and the clutch rod. I’m tired of messing with it, so for now it just deliberate, quick, and reasonably well timed shifts.