2006 FJR only start when jumped

[ole_dusty]

We have a 2006 FJR that my father just picked up. Brand new battery on it. Battery reads 13.3 volts. When he attempts to crank it, it just clicks. He ran two small wires from his car over to the post of the FJR battery (not jumper cables, just 2 smaller gauge wires) and it cranked right up. The new battery has a CCA rating of 180amps. Anyone have any suggestions as the where to look or what the problem could be? Is the CCA of the battery too low? I am lost since the battery is brand new and has 13+ volts.

 

[RossKean]

Voltage is not a great indicator of battery condition. Put it on a slow charge (2 amps or less) and try it again. Better still, after charging, take it somewhere and get it load tested. Unlikely to be too low CCA spec (180 is enough) although the battery may be defective, have a bad cell or possibly not fully charged.

Make sure battery connections are clean and tight. There is a chance that your starter motor is on the way out and is drawing too much power but the fact that it started easily with a boost through small gauge wires suggests that is not the case.

 

[ole_dusty]

The battery was tested at local Yamaha dealer and tested good. I will have him check the cabling and see if he has a trickle charger.

 

[RossKean]

Did they load test or just check voltage?

 

[ole_dusty]

Rex

Did they load test or just check voltage?

Good question. They hooked it up to their rest machine so I assume load test but I am not sure to be honest.

 

[Cyclepath]

Wondeting if the starter relay is suspect?

 

[ole_dusty]

Wondeting if the starter relay is suspect?

Could be. But why the jumper wires work? I feel like even with those wires, a faulty relay would not work. But I could be wrong. It’s something for us to look at. He has it on a trickle charger now, will test again tomorrow.

 

[RossKean]

Wondeting if the starter relay is suspect?

Except that it appears to start normally when jumped which it wouldn't do if the relay was bad. Depending on the wire used, it might not even be getting full power from the jump - perhaps just an "assist".

Good idea to measure the voltage while cranking - I bet it is dropping to less than 8 or 9 V.
1) Battery not charged
2) Battery bad - voltage might show OK until you draw some current
3) Poor physical connection (cables to battery or ground to chassis)
4) Starter on the way out - need to verify by checking starting current.

Do you have a known good battery you can try?

 

[ole_dusty]

Except that it appears to start normally when jumped which it wouldn't do if the relay was bad. Depending on the wire used, it might not even be getting full power from the jump - perhaps just an "assist".

Good idea to measure the voltage while cranking - I bet it is dropping to less than 8 or 9 V.
1) Battery not charged
2) Battery bad - voltage might show OK until you draw some current
3) Poor physical connection (cables to battery or ground to chassis)
4) Starter on the way out - need to verify by checking starting current.

Do you have a known good battery you can try?

It is a new battery but who knows how long it just sat on a shelf. He is trickle charging it and will retest tomorrow. Unfortunately my dad is not the most technical person so taking voltages by himself is probably a no-go. Hopefully the charge does the trick but if not I will see if I can get someone near him to give a hand with taking the needed voltage readings.

 

[Ridelikethewind]

Sounds like you have a bad ground to me.

 

[waynevb]

One of the reasons I abandoned a LI-Ion battery was exactly this problem. Voltage read OK but was very slow cranking. I was almost stranded in Tasmania after a coldish night (6 Celsius). When I got back to the mainland I contacted the company who sold me the battery. They had me charge/start/measure voltage. If the voltage was 13.2V, they told me it's OK. Well it wasn't and died quite soon after. I went back to an AGM at half the price and no issues since. I always leave it on a battery tender in my garage.

 

[road runner]

Does not make sense. If it was 13.3 volts and just clicked, then adding jumper cables should not change anything as 13.3 is plenty. May be something intermittent like the relay.
I'm assuming the battery is good, being new, also assuming clean and tight connections.
Really need to do more diag.

 

[RossKean]

One of the reasons I abandoned a LI-Ion battery was exactly this problem. Voltage read OK but was very slow cranking. I was almost stranded in Tasmania after a coldish night (6 Celsius). When I got back to the mainland I contacted the company who sold me the battery. They had me charge/start/measure voltage. If the voltage was 13.2V, they told me it's OK. Well it wasn't and died quite soon after. I went back to an AGM at half the price and no issues since. I always leave it on a battery tender in my garage.

Some lithium batteries don't respond well to the cold and won't provide sufficient cranking amps until they warm up. Cranking to warm them up does not do good stuff for the starter and relay.

I never bother with a battery tender at all. A healthy AGM battery has a very low self-discharge rate - a few percent per month. In addition, the FJR normally has a very low parasitic draw - way less than a milliamp. I do a "top-off" charge a couple of times during the 5 month winter layoff. My 2011 has the original battery in it after 12 years and over150,000 km.

 

[RossKean]

Does not make sense. If it was 13.3 volts and just clicked, then adding jumper cables should not change anything as 13.3 is plenty. May be something intermittent like the relay.
I'm assuming the battery is good, being new, also assuming clean and tight connections.
Really need to do more diag.

I suspect that if you had a meter on that battery when it clicked, the voltage would have dropped way down. Sometimes, a battery cell will show "full" voltage when there is no demand but falls flat on its face when you try to draw any current - effectively "open". The only way to tell for sure is a proper load test after fully charging the battery. I would never assume that a new battery is OK but, as you say, further diagnostics are needed - including connections.

Note: The boost wouldn't really help much if the relay was bad...

 

[Bounce]

It is a new battery but who knows how long it just sat on a shelf. He is trickle charging it and will retest tomorrow. Unfortunately my dad is not the most technical person so taking voltages by himself is probably a no-go. Hopefully the charge does the trick but if not I will see if I can get someone near him to give a hand with taking the needed voltage readings.

I've had that happen twice. New bat. Next day wouldn't start. Jumped, got it back to the shop, and it was a DOA on the shelf.

 

[#Rocket]

Sounds like you probably ruled-out non-battery issues. Maybe the new battery has a marginal cell or connection. Over the years I have bought batteries for recreational equipment, tractors, and lawn equipment. I have stopped buying batteries that are acid filled from the factory (i.e., I only buy dry batteries that come with acid in separate special fillers). For example, my 2006 FJR had an OEM YUASA battery for over a decade. I replaced it with a highly rated pre-filled AGM battery. It tested good but would not start the bike reliably on a cool morning. I exchanged it for an OEM YUASA with separate acid fillers, activated the battery, and the bike is reliable again. It seems like the FJR battery has some special CCA AND amp-hour requirements that are best met with OEM. This is just an experienced opinion, your situation may be different.

 

[mcatrophy]

Could be. But why the jumper wires work? I feel like even with those wires, a faulty relay would not work. But I could be wrong. It’s something for us to look at. He has it on a trickle charger now, will test again tomorrow.

Don't leave it on a trickle charger unless you mean a battery tender suitable for motorcycle batteries.

 

[RossKean]

Don't leave it on a trickle charger unless you mean a battery tender suitable for motorcycle batteries.

Agreed! I sometimes use a "dumb" ~1 amp trickle charger to top off a partially discharged battery or (a few times) to recharge a MC battery from flat after leaving the ignition on. The output is not regulated and the charger doesn't stop once the battery is fully charged (although the charge rate does decrease as the battery voltage goes up). Still, it would kill the battery if left on too long whereas a battery tender or maintainer will stop and maintain a safe "float" voltage indefinitely once the battery reaches a voltage that represents a full charge. Shouldn't have to worry about disconnecting a "smart" battery tender.

For a fairly "flat" AGM battery, you could leave a nominal one amp trickle charger like mine on for 15 hours or more without doing any harm but I would want to check voltage every couple of hours. I wouldn't let it go more than 24 hours under any circumstances.

 

[Rmbarcus]

The battery was tested at local Yamaha dealer and tested good. I will have him check the cabling and see if he has a trickle charger.

It’s only good if they load tested. I know some of these guys read the voltage from the battery and nothing else. You know that a battery can indicate good voltage and yet the battery is garbage.

 

[Cyclepath]

Just in case someone else hasn't surfaced this in a while...

Best Motorcycle Battery? Lead-Acid v. AGM v. Gel v. Lithium - a very good comparo by Canada's Fortnine retailer on Youtube.

Cheers!