2007 Cranks once and then acts like the battery is dead

[renink]

I have been riding the bike all Summer and haven't been having issues with my FJR. 2 weeks ago I was getting home from work and turned the bike off to open the garage and talk with my brother. When I went to start the bike back up about 5 minutes later, it cranked once and all displays kept turning off almost like the battery was dead. The initial crank sounded regular but immediately stopped and wouldn't keep cranking. I had the battery tested and they said it was working fine. I still had them replace it. I just got the new battery in hand and installed it this morning and went to crank it again and it did the exact same thing.

it will crank once and then dies. I'm assuming something may be wrong with the starter? Is that something that is easily diagnosed and/or replaced or will I need to bring it to a shop? It is a 2007 with roughly 20,000 miles so I wouldn't expect the starter to fail.

 

[MrZappo]

If the display still goes dead, that would seem to rule out the starter ... Have youi had the wiring harness replaced and ground spider recalls done ?

 

[ionbeam]

The display goes dead because the voltage drops too low. It could be wiring, the starter and possibly even the new battery though it is unlikely. The problem could indeed be related to melted grounds but this is an unusual symptom. The starter is easy to change, getting to the starter is a bit involved.

This problem will take a volt meter to diagnose, if you don't own one or aren't comfortable using one then it's probably dealer time. If your FJR hasn't had the ground harness recall work done yet you need to take it to a dealer anyway. If you aren't sure if the harness rework has been done you can call any Yamaha dealer and give the service department your VIN and they can look it up. If you have a meter and can use it, we can walk you through a diagnosis process. Ideally the diagnosis process will start with your battery being trickle charged over night as a first step in troubleshooting so we know what we are seeing when measuring the battery voltage under load.

 

[RossKean]

Might be worthwhile checking out the starter solenoid/relay as well...

 

[renink]

Well I am getting 12v at the battery. I made a post previously about how the battery tender would bounce back from green to red continuously. This happened on the old battery as well as the new one. I don't remember having any recalls done on my bike at any time.

I'll call a dealer to get info on the recalls.

 

[MrZappo]

Are you getting 12 volts or more like 12.5 or 12.8 ? 12.0 would be severely discharged ?

 

[ionbeam]

Might be worthwhile checking out the starter solenoid/relay as well...

Yes, in following diagnostic steps. Test the power source, test the power delivery (wires & connections), test the switched power (relay), then if all that passes the only thing left is the starter.

Are you getting 12 volts or more like 12.5 or 12.8 ? 12.0 would be severely discharged ?

This is why I asked about owning a volt meter and being comfortable knowing how to use the meter. Charge the battery, give it a half hour to an hour for the 'float charge' to dissipate and then measure the battery voltage and the decimal point value matters a whole lot. If we see a solid 12.8 volts or better then it's time to look at cranking voltage. I haven't put out a diagnostic plan yet awaiting to hear about the volt meter...

 

[renink]

Dealer said there are no open recalls on my bike. Said it sounded like the starter from what I described. Also said about 2-3 hours of labor. Rounded it up to approx $500 for parts, labor and tax.

I'll try to turn it over with the voltage meter attached and see what happens.

Should I consider trying to jump from a car battery with the car off? Would that at least help me get a better idea?

 

[ionbeam]

I agree, it sounds like the starter. The fastest way to determine that is to put a current probe on the battery and read cranking current. A dealer should be able to do this, I have a current probe in my tool box. Lacking a current probe you need to do some structured testing with a volt meter to determine the real root cause.

If the starter is really going bad, hooking it to a car battery should take care of that. Look for the smoke, it will be a race to see if the starter cooks before the wires melt.

It bothers me that #1 a starter is bad at 20k miles (it does seem to happen with some Gen II bikes) and it bothers me #2 that the symptoms remain the same with two different batteries. A loose battery cable or bad battery cable would cause the same symptoms as you see with the meter assembly blanking... And, I assume that the clock and trip odometer reset too?

 

[renink]

I will get the model of my voltage meter when I get home as I borrowed it from a coworker. I have only ever used one of the dials to check voltage.

 

[ionbeam]

I will get the model of my voltage meter when I get home as I borrowed it from a coworker. I have only ever used one of the dials to check voltage.

A hand held volt meter typically can only measure current up to 10 amps, the starter circuit draws 40-60 amps when good and can easily draw >100 amps when bad so the volt meter will be no help for amps. My amp probe measures up to 400 amps and will not be damaged if the current goes over that.

When dealing with issues in which the battery is involved the digit after the decimal point is really important. 12.0 vs 12.8 is the difference between a fully charged battery and a battery that is <10% charged.

 

[renink]

So my battery tester was at 12.2 before I started cranking again when I got home. Here are a couple of pics of the tester. I have never done much with it outside of putting it on VA and testing it. I also have a link to a video of it struggling to turn over. I tried it again and after holding for a few secs you can hear it start making a bunch more noise.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7wsxhwt0c83mn1x/AAAeBF2qn1V8Hb-bXwzKGj3Ua?dl=0

 

[RaYzerman19]

That does not necessarily sound like a starter problem to me... but indicates the first thing to do is check connections. That starter relay clicking indicates full current/voltage is not flowing. I also think most likely the starter relay is OK (for the moment). At this point, fully charged battery should read 12.8 V and all connections must be checked on the high current side.... i.e., ground cable to frame/engine, positive cable to relay, positive cable relay to starter, and at starter. If all those are clean and tight, then we're back to the starter relay (contacts inside may be somewhat compromised from use, but strange with only 20k but possible). Start here but don't spend $500 on a starter job until it is verified it is the starter.

Professor Ionbeam's advice should also be heeded, all those voltmeter checks should be done too. You might find out the fix is free, i.e., a dirty connection or loose fastener........ let's hope so.

 

[JamesK]

My starter worked for 160k miles, so I would be surprised if yours died at the break-in mileage of only 20k

Another interesting point to note, the starter on my new/replacement engine which had about 11k miles on it looked like it was brand new, i.e. no observable wear on the brushes or dirt, etc. inside.

When finally completely failed (which was a gradual process over a few months) it also took out (damaged) the starter relay. My point is if the tests conclude that the starter needs to be replaced, don't skimp and replace the starter relay too.

 

[renink]

Wish I was good at being able to trace all the connections. I do some maintenance on my bike and cars when I have clear instructing but fishing around makes me a bit more hesitant.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Replace the starter relay (starter solenoid) first, BEFORE you spend the money for a starter. (Or have the dealer quote and do the job for you.) No sense replacing a starter without also replacing the starter relay too. Standard mechanic wisdom dictates replacing both components together, because bad starter motors tend to fry starter relays.

The logic is simple, replace the lesser expensive and more accessible of the two components first. You may also accidentally discover a loose or corroded connection in the process that is the root cause. Hold off on replacing a starter motor until the easier and cheaper possibilities have been exhausted.

Q. When you say NEW BATTERY, does that mean a brand new battery that you filled for the first time yourself, or one that was already filled and sitting on someone's shelf? It may matter.

Q. Locate the starter relay and take voltage readings while the starter is activated. Read positive voltage off both of the large wire connections and compare the readings. If there is a significant difference then you have a faulty starter relay for sure. There should be very little voltage drop across the internals of the relay.

Try to do your voltage readings using two different grounds/negatives; the negative battery post, and a good metal frame ground. If there are big differences in readings, you have a faulty ground somewhere.

FJR starter failures are almost unheard of until well above the 100,000 mile mark. And they commonly/typically last for 200,000 or more. Don't go there until you have some strong indicators it's required.

 

[Panman]

Replace the starter relay (starter solenoid) first, BEFORE you spend the money for a starter. (Or have the dealer quote and do the job for you.) No sense replacing a starter without also replacing the starter relay too. Standard mechanic wisdom dictates replacing both components together, because bad starter motors tend to fry starter relays.
The logic is simple, replace the lesser expensive and more accessible of the two components first. You may also accidentally discover a loose or corroded connection in the process that is the root cause. Hold off on replacing a starter motor until the easier and cheaper possibilities have been exhausted.

Q. When you say NEW BATTERY, does that mean a brand new battery that you filled for the first time yourself, or one that was already filled and sitting on someone's shelf? It may matter.

Q. Locate the starter relay and take voltage readings while the starter is activated. Read positive voltage off both of the large wire connections and compare the readings. If there is a significant difference then you have a faulty starter relay for sure. There should be very little voltage drop across the internals of the relay.

Try to do your voltage readings using two different grounds/negatives; the negative battery post, and a good metal frame ground. If there are big differences in readings, you have a faulty ground somewhere.

FJR starter failures are almost unheard of until well above the 100,000 mile mark. And they commonly/typically last for 200,000 or more. Don't go there until you have some strong indicators it's required.

I agree with Jeff on this as I lost my starter relay at about the same mileage about five years ago. Sometimes four hands are better than one if you don't have decent clips. Two to push on the probes and another for pushing the starter button.

If you do replace the started relay it is easy to get it turned around as it sits in a rubber isolator with two 50 amp fuse's on each end, one of those is a dummy. If you get it turned around you will get an ABS light fault as the ABS pump is without power. I learned this the hard way with lots of head scratching. I rode for four or five months without ABS till I found someone smarter than me (doesn't take much) to help fix!

 

[ionbeam]

So my battery tester was at 12.2 before I started cranking again when I got home. Here are a couple of pics of the tester. I have never done much with it outside of putting it on VA and testing it. I also have a link to a video of it struggling to turn over. I tried it again and after holding for a few secs you can hear it start making a bunch more noise.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7wsxhwt0c83mn1x/AAAeBF2qn1V8Hb-bXwzKGj3Ua?dl=0

1. My, my you have a clamp on amp probe that can measure actual cranking current, this is the right tool for the job! Clamp it on, zero the DC scale, set it to hold the DC reading, crank and then read the value.

2. If your battery reads 12.2 volts the meter may not be accurate (probably not the case, but worth mentioning)

3. If your battery reads 12.2 volts your trickle charger isn't working

4. If your battery reads 12.2 volts your battery is bad

5. If your battery reads 12.2 volts you didn't trickle charge it over night as was asked for in a previous post

6. If your battery really is 12.2 volts and it wasn't trickle charged it is way under charged and is sitting with only a ~30% charge and will be very weak

7. If your battery wasn't charged you can't properly troubleshoot your starting problem.

I'll ask again, does your clock and trip odometer reset when you try to start your bike?

For now I'll back out and see where things go. You can just start throwing $$$ and parts at it until it works or troubleshoot the problem and find the root cause.

 

[Nanahanman]

Have you tested it by jumping from a car battery, as suggested earlier?