2007 FJR lost life with a ladder at 106K

[palerider]

I find it interesting that the family always wants What is Best For You, while at the same time not really caring about What Makes You Happy.

+1

Sometimes what makes you happy is what's best for you. People either get it about motorcycles, or they don't. People who get it ride; people who don't don't.

My wife of 42 years still hasn't stopped talking about an accident we had in 1972 in San Francisco. We were riding between the streetcar tracks at night, and suddenly there was a 3-foot-wide, 3-foot-long, 2-foot-deep excavation. No signs, no lights, no warning. Just a big, deep hole that a track-repair crew had dug up and left open overnight. My bike's front wheel dropped into the hole, and we went over the handle-bars and slid down Irving Street. The part my wife hasn't forgiven me for is that before I asked her how she was (bruised thigh bone), I crawled back and turned off the ignition. Bones heal. But just before the ambulance took her to the permanent nightmare that is San Francisco General's Emergency Room, a motorcycle cop gave me a ticket for--guess what--"Riding too fast for conditons."

 

[wheatonFJR]

...lack of time to react means someone was following too close for conditions.

Have you ever commuted in the "big city"?

What is the amount of reaction time required to stop for a ladder in your lane?

How many cars do you think will fit into that distance repeatedly, all day -everyday?

We would all love to have adequate following distance while commuting in the city...the idiots won't allow it.

So instead of congratulating the guy on making a miracle stop...a ladder for goodness sakes at speed...you decide to find fault about some imaginary adequate following distances in big city commuting.

 

[SwollenRaccoon]

...lack of time to react means someone was following too close for conditions.

Have you ever commuted in the "big city"?

What is the amount of reaction time required to stop for a ladder in your lane?

How many cars do you think will fit into that distance repeatedly, all day -everyday?

We would all love to have adequate following distance while commuting in the city...the idiots won't allow it.

So instead of congratulating the guy on making a miracle stop...a ladder for goodness sakes at speed...you decide to find fault about some imaginary adequate following distances in big city commuting.

Nicely stated, Mark. All good points. I'm glad nobody got hurt, although I'm sure we'd all like to hurt the d-bag that let a ladder fall from his vehicle.

One more commuting tip;

Stay in the wheeltrack of the vehicle in front of you. If there's something in the road (maybe not something huge, like a LADDER), the guy in front of you will probably try to straddle it with his vehicle, and you won't have time/space to react.

Good luck on getting a new (to you) bike. It will make you happy.

 

[Bustanut joker]

...lack of time to react means someone was following too close for conditions.

Have you ever commuted in the "big city"?

What is the amount of reaction time required to stop for a ladder in your lane?

How many cars do you think will fit into that distance repeatedly, all day -everyday?

We would all love to have adequate following distance while commuting in the city...the idiots won't allow it.

So instead of congratulating the guy on making a miracle stop...a ladder for goodness sakes at speed...you decide to find fault about some imaginary adequate following distances in big city commuting.

Aye... The Dan Ryan, Tri State, 355.. You got a mess of nasty traffic there Mark.

 

[Burnspot]

I will say that sometimes a positive cash flow is not a fair replacement for a high quality motorcycle. Do what you think is best, and good luck.

+1

Nice job on keeping the bike upright, but sorry it suffered for it.

 

[wheatonFJR]

Have to ask, anyone in this thread willing to comment on when the last time was they practiced Emergency Swerving?

I ask because I have to practice it all the time, because we teach it in the BRC and ERC. The point is that emergency braking and swerving are learned skills, not innate. If we don't practice them our ability to do them will diminish over time.

Don't mean to imply the OP could have swerved out of the way, I wasn't there, so don't know. And it's great yer okay after something like that.

But if there's anything I've learned after being an MSF instructor for 7 years, Emergency Braking and Swerving should not be taken for granted. Ya just never know when u might need to be right at the tip top of those skills.

I admit I haven't practiced as much as I know I need to.

Emergency swerving did likely save my life, my legs, or my spine, when someone on a side road pulled out into my space seven years ago. Look where you want to go, not at the thing that's gonna hurt ya if you hit it.

 

I ended up in the right hand ditch, but atleast I was alive, and the bike was rideable...to Ohio for the 2005 Ohio Fall Ramble.

 

[jcyuhn]

Also, let's not forget that the standard 2 second following distance allows for your reaction time and stopping distance and difference in deceleration rates for when the car in front of you slams on their brakes. This does not allow for time to stop for a non-moving object. You can NOT bring your bike down from highway speed to stopped in two seconds counting reaction time.

Guess what? I also found out that this isn't enough time when the vehicle in front of you slams into a pretty much stopped vehicle thus stopping the vehicle in front of you immediately. Fortunately for me I spotted the A-hole in stopped traffic making his move over into the HOV lane in front of the car in front of me and had already started decelerating when the car in front of me started smoking tires and slammed into the back of the truck. Even with me starting ahead of time there was barely room to come to a stop. And yea, just over a year later, I gave my statement to the insurance company the other day. Dude in the truck is fighting it...company vehicle, guess he didn't want to lose his job over his stupidity.

I was behind a goldwing on the HOV here one day and both of us had to dodge a ladder laying in the lane. Double puckers!

The classic DFW HOV lane accident. I have seen it more than a few times on 75 north of LBJ. It's disappointing the designers did not put in a solid barrier, it's not hard to predict that drivers would pull into the HOV lane from stopped traffic in the other lanes.

 

[azitlies]

Have to ask, anyone in this thread willing to comment on when the last time was they practiced Emergency Swerving?

I ask because I have to practice it all the time, because we teach it in the BRC and ERC. The point is that emergency braking and swerving are learned skills, not innate. If we don't practice them our ability to do them will diminish over time.

Don't mean to imply the OP could have swerved out of the way, I wasn't there, so don't know. And it's great yer okay after something like that.

But if there's anything I've learned after being an MSF instructor for 7 years, Emergency Braking and Swerving should not be taken for granted. Ya just never know when u might need to be right at the tip top of those skills.

I admit I haven't practiced as much as I know I need to.

Emergency swerving did likely save my life, my legs, or my spine, when someone on a side road pulled out into my space seven years ago. Look where you want to go, not at the thing that's gonna hurt ya if you hit it.

 

I ended up in the right hand ditch, but atleast I was alive, and the bike was rideable...to Ohio for the 2005 Ohio Fall Ramble.

Good thing you survived that, kudo's.

In an Emergency swerve, we really don't have time to turn our heads and look where we're going (normal avoidance of target fixation). It happens too fast.

This thread (the original post) is a great example. The MSF describes an Emergency swerve as "two consecutive counter-steers". But when we do the Simulated Practice for this technique; It's described as "swerving with your upper body straight". That's because there's no time to lean with the bike, again, it all happens too fast.

The thing I point out in the simulated practice, that I strongly believe is the most helpful, is to have people lean forward and relax their arms and elbows bent. The whole point is to allow input into the handlebars. If your weight is on your wrists, then input to one side is being fought by the weight on the other side.

Sport bike riders have the most difficulty with this because many of them are supporting their upper body weight with their arms. In other words, they ride around "stiff armed".

Basically when one needs to Emergency Swerve they quickly press on one hand-grip, and then the other. It happens real fast... BOOM BOOM!! you push the bike under you to one side then under you to the other (to get back in position). Upper body stays straight, no time to lean with the bike. You see everything in your peripheral vision

We regularly point out in the MSF classes, that above say 20 mph, you're more likely to be able to avoid a crash by swerving than you are by stopping (assuming, of course, you have a place to swerve to).

Mostly an Emergency Swerve will happen in your lane, but it should be obvious that sometimes your entire lane may be taken up by the obstacle, that's another reason why it's so important to be aware of your surroundings at all times, you just never know when you may have to go out of your lane so fast that you have no time to look. And you just have to hope that you've been keeping tabs and know the left lane is open but not the right (or vice versa or both or whatever). It's either that or slam into the obstacle...

I really like the "stay in the tire tracks of the car in front of you". That's excellent advice. Keep in mind though that if that car swerves one way or the other, we won't know till the last second if they are trying to avoid a problem by going over it (under the car) or around it. Could present problems.

It kind of chaps me a little when hearing people knock the MSF BRC, saying things like "oh that's for beginners, they show u how to use a clutch blah blah". Well yes they do, but they also show you some skills that could save your life, if you practice them.

I can't tell you how many participants in the ERC (now called BRC2) obviously don't practice these skills. Many of them come to the emergency braking and just lock up their rear tire with smoke pouring off and it sliding side to side. And never touch the front brake.

One last thing, the '2 second following distance' isn't "the standard". It's what's used under "Ideal Conditions". I don't think it's going out on a limb to say very congested traffic on a busy highway at 70 or so mph is not "Ideal Conditions".

Sorry, I get kind of wordy sometimes.

 

[gixxerjasen]

=One last thing, the '2 second following distance' isn't "the standard". It's what's used under "Ideal Conditions". I don't think it's going out on a limb to say very congested traffic on a busy highway at 70 or so mph is not "Ideal Conditions".

Right. 2 seconds is taught as a minimum in ideal conditions. If you have less than ideal conditions then you should leave more space. But we all know what happens when you do that.

Had to laugh today. I'm on my way home and I've been playing with my new to me GoPro trying to get used to the settings and stuff. I've run it with me a couple of days on my commute testing locations, backs of the case and such.

On my way home I got the classic example of leaving too much following distance. Actually, the camera wide angle lens makes me look further back but if you watch and time the lane divider you'll see I really am just over a single second of following distance...closer than I probably should be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUkQ0Wc96uE

Not like I didn't see it coming...and this one was even courteous enough to use his signal...highly unheard of in these parts.

 

[azitlies]

=One last thing, the '2 second following distance' isn't "the standard". It's what's used under "Ideal Conditions". I don't think it's going out on a limb to say very congested traffic on a busy highway at 70 or so mph is not "Ideal Conditions".

Right. 2 seconds is taught as a minimum in ideal conditions. If you have less than ideal conditions then you should leave more space. But we all know what happens when you do that.

Had to laugh today. I'm on my way home and I've been playing with my new to me GoPro trying to get used to the settings and stuff. I've run it with me a couple of days on my commute testing locations, backs of the case and such.

On my way home I got the classic example of leaving too much following distance. Actually, the camera wide angle lens makes me look further back but if you watch and time the lane divider you'll see I really am just over a single second of following distance...closer than I probably should be.

Not like I didn't see it coming...and this one was even courteous enough to use his signal...highly unheard of in these parts.

Yup that's a good video showing that sort of thing Jasen.

Oddly enough, only about a week ago, was in the car at early rush hour traffic on a six lane road in Tucson. Some bone head just a few cars ahead was driving in a "I"m scared to death" fashion. Never saw the car, but could "feel" it.

They kept speeding up quickly then slowing quickly. Probably a driver that stops 2 or 3 car lengths behind the person in front of them. Then slowly crawls up to them the entire time of the stop light.

Anyway, this driver was making it impossible to relax, had to constantly be watching for people slowing rapidly. Sure enough, coming up to a light, this person slows so rapidly all the cars behind me, save for 1 or 2, ran into the back of ea other.... BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM!!

I was swerving into a left lane that I just got to for left turners, but the car behind me was okay. And I don't think they got hit. But behind them was the pile up.

One pick em up the front must have been crushed in 2 feet. The hood was bent right in the middle at a 90 degree angle with the middle up about 3 feet in the air.

Guess the commuters were so use to driving a particular way, and then this bone head gets in the mix and they can't deal with it.

Be Careful... It's Dumb Out There.

 

[SkooterG]

=One last thing, the '2 second following distance' isn't "the standard". It's what's used under "Ideal Conditions". I don't think it's going out on a limb to say very congested traffic on a busy highway at 70 or so mph is not "Ideal Conditions".

Right. 2 seconds is taught as a minimum in ideal conditions. If you have less than ideal conditions then you should leave more space. But we all know what happens when you do that.

Had to laugh today. I'm on my way home and I've been playing with my new to me GoPro trying to get used to the settings and stuff. I've run it with me a couple of days on my commute testing locations, backs of the case and such.

On my way home I got the classic example of leaving too much following distance. Actually, the camera wide angle lens makes me look further back but if you watch and time the lane divider you'll see I really am just over a single second of following distance...closer than I probably should be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUkQ0Wc96uE

Not like I didn't see it coming...and this one was even courteous enough to use his signal...highly unheard of in these parts.

Not to be critical......... but I am about to be!

I totally understand the riding in heavy traffic and reality of reduced following distances thing. But it looks like you are in the center of the lane. That's the last place I want to be. In heavy traffic with reduced following distances, I am ALWAYS to one side of the lane or the other so I can look around the vehicle in front of me and see how things are going several vehicles down the line. With reduced following distances, a rider really needs to see more than just the vehicle in front of him.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, while I do agree and try not to ride in the center of a lane unless there is absolutely no traffic around, we could start a whole 'nother thread about lane positions. I understand that everyone has a differing opinion on what is safest. In the left lane I tend to want to ride the right wheel track and put my headlight in the driver I'm following's right mirror. It also allows me to see and be seen by both the lane I'm in and the one to my right. Vice versa for the furthest right lane. Those middel lanes are the tricky ones.

Mainly I want to give some big kudos to the OP here. Having something as big as a ladder stretched across the road in front of you would be a recipe for a crash for most motorcyclists. Your instincts to stand on the pegs probably saved your skin. Just had to say that I am highly impressed. I think this is yet another case where having experience in riding off-road makes one a better rider on-road. I can only hope that I would think that fast in that situation too. Good job!

 

[FJRMGM]

glad to hear you made it through that no-win situation OK.

Debris on the road is a constant problem here in Houston too. Amazing the junk that vehicles deposit that you have to try to avoid in a heavy traffic situation.

That's why when I leave here in three weeks I won't look back and I won't miss it one bit.

 

[mavrik]

yes kudo to the OP...that could have been terrible in many many ways...way to stay loose and keep your head about you!

 

[Falko]

The 2 second rule applies to vehicles moving in teh same direction. If the ladder was stationary, and you were two seconds behind the person that ran over it, you are running over it too. Get 2 seconds behind someone then pick a stationary object and imagine applying brakes by the time that person passes that object and you stopping in that distance.

 

[azitlies]

The 2 second rule applies to vehicles moving in teh same direction. If the ladder was stationary, and you were two seconds behind the person that ran over it, you are running over it too. Get 2 seconds behind someone then pick a stationary object and imagine applying brakes by the time that person passes that object and you stopping in that distance.

Maybe if u did Emergency Swerving you could avoid it?

I agree no one will stop in that amount of time... no way... even if yer name is Valentino and yer bike says # 46 on it...

 

[gixxerjasen]

Not to be critical......... but I am about to be!
I totally understand the riding in heavy traffic and reality of reduced following distances thing. But it looks like you are in the center of the lane. That's the last place I want to be. In heavy traffic with reduced following distances, I am ALWAYS to one side of the lane or the other so I can look around the vehicle in front of me and see how things are going several vehicles down the line. With reduced following distances, a rider really needs to see more than just the vehicle in front of him.

No problemo. I actually typed a whole reply to another post but deleted it as it wasn't coming off right. Actually for me my lane position is very fluid depending on the current situation. Most of my position deals with either staying in a drivers mirrors or side view. Passing next to a car I'll start off closer to them so I'm in the side view mirrors and then move over away from them to give myself space as well as zip through their blind spot and into view next to them.

The section of road in the video can be a bit tricky. The exit lane to the right backs up and goes past the entrance lane and you have about three lanes of idiocity as folks jump around and slam on the brakes, hence me being as far to the left of that mess as possible. I'm watching those idiots as well as watching that shoulder for cops as this is the heaviest patrolled section of highway I see. They have at least one cop out there every single day, and two or more on many days. I've already paid up one of those darn tix so I'm watching.

Also, something a lot of folks, especially non-riders, fail to recognize is that we can see over a lot of vehicles. Less in Texas with everyone having a truck but that's a huge advantage. For SUV's like above, I'll also watch through them as well, but in this case I was paying particular attention to that guy to my right as I knew he was about to come over. He was passing traffic and there was a car blocking his way ahead and his last gap was in front of me.