2009 won't start - just a click

[MajBach]

I've cross posted this btw.

This is the kind of day...week, I've been having. Bike is all packed up and about to leave on a cross-country trip and....it wont start. Just clicks. Even when hooked up with cables to a big battery. So, leading up to this I was working on some electrical stuff in the battery compartment area. May have let the battery drain a little too low. When I went to start it, it didn't catch and I could hear the juice dwindling. To impatient to hook up a trickle charger and wait, I just kept my finger on the button until finally...the solenoid kicked in. I retried. Of course, it sounded even weaker this time before the solenoid kicked in. Ultimately, pushing the starter button did nothing but make a SINGLE click (not a continuous one like normal with a weak battery). So, I popped open the thing and hooked it up to jumpers and still...one click. I'm thinking the relay is shot or the starter is shot. I can't even find the dang relay and dont know what side the starter is on.

I need some FAST and detailed advice on how to trouble shoot this. Bypass the relay? give it a tap? test the starter? How? Guess I should be happy this happened in my garage.

I'm desperate and I need help. Please.

 

[Canadian FJR]

Check the simple stuff first.

battery connections tight?

are you sure the big battery is charged

are you sure the jumper cables are making a good connection 

Use an amp meter to check the load on the battery when cranking with the big battery.

 

[MajBach]

Check the simple stuff first.

battery connections tight?

are you sure the big battery is charged

are you sure the jumper cables are making a good connection 

Use an amp meter to check the load on the battery when cranking with the big battery.

Thanks for the replay. I'm pretty discouraged right now as I think I have determined that there is a short in the starter...minutes before leaving on a 2 weeks trip across Canada.
Here is what I learned since posting:

I found the relay and I also traced the heavy gauge wires from the battery. The red +ve is a short length that goes directly to the relay. The -ve black wire from the battery sneaks under the battery case and I assumed goes directly to the started or to a ground. Right beside where the red wire is attached to the relay is a heavy gauge black wire. I expected that this black wire is really the +ve wire heading to the starter (with the relay being the interrupt between the two); I mean, how else does the +ve lead get to the starter? What I was surprised to learn is that even with the ignition off, there is a 12V potential across these two terminals. I gave my head a shake thinking I misinterpreted. So, I went back to the -ve terminal on the battery and could plainly see that there is no connection from the -ve terminal to the relay. However, the black heavy gauge wire on the relay AND the black heavy wire from the battery are zip tied together and disappear into the engine block (towards the starter) . So, I disconnected the battery completely. Then I ran a continuity test from the black terminal on the relay to the black wire on the battery and it was a near short. This means one of two things: the black wire from the relay IS ground or it is +ve and is shorted out inside the starter. But, if the latter is the case, how are there not sparks flying everywhere when I turn the ignition on. If I could just run 12v straight to the starter to see if it turns. But, that's what I was trying to do when I discovered all this, i.e., trying to find the two heavy gauge wires that come from the starter.
BTW, I tried everything you suggested right off the bat.
Now what?

 

[biknflyfisher]

Oh man, that is such bad timing.

Hopefully an electrical guru on here will help you get things squared away. Electricity baffles me so I’m no help....

Biknflyfisher

 

[RossKean]

Make very sure the battery you are using is fully charged and healthy.

Does the meter "sweep" after a failed attempt?  Has the clock and trip odometer reset?  Indicators of low voltage and either a bad battery, bad connection or a very heavy current draw.  

Monitor battery voltage while attempting to start.  If there is a heavy draw because of a messed up starter,  voltage will drop significantly. Clamp on DC ammeter would be useful to measure current draw. 

Find the starter relay and tap it while trying to start.  Try jumping across the relay.

My guess is starter relay or ignition switch.  The latter may be worth checking- there have been issues on Gen II but I don't think on 2009.

Note: Starter failures are usually slow start. Especially when hot.  Very high current draw as well.

Good luck.

 

[mattster344]

I echo the above advice also. I had a rather frustrating electrical issue myself recently. 

After checking connections/fuses for continuity etc..... If the battery is fully charged, try jumping the relay as RossKean suggested. At least you will know if the starter works. Even a light gauge wire (18ga or higher) will do the trick as you only need to hear it turn over once or twice....the positive lead runs through that relay so its just a matter of touching the positive battery lead to the opposite side of the relay (the side with the wire that disappears into the engine.....it goes directly to the starter). Yes there may be a spark or two but its minor. 

Any error codes on the screen? I am assuming the meter sweeps and fuel pump are operating?

Not sure if the Gen II is much different, but if the starter relay is ok,  you could check the starter/ignition relay under the seat for continuity (FSM walks you through it if you have access to one). There is also a small diode that should be checked as well. On the Gen I its right next to the starter relay by the battery. 

Not sure if this helps at all.

M

 

[blassoff]

I'm no help here, but have you tried to bump start it? Roll it down a hill in third gear, set the ignition switch to on, get a little speed, pop the clutch while you finger the starter button. Should jump to life. Just a thought, maybe not a good one though....If you've got power and the dials sweep, and you had clicking from the starter, i'd try bumping it. sounds like a battery issue. I never had success adding a second battery, always blew a fuse somewhere.  Sorry, just trying to help.

 

[fjrob1300]

****!!!! that's all I've got . sorry.  BUT!! if you make it to Ontario I'll ride with ya

 

[dcarver]

starter tutorial if needed
https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/491

 

[MajBach]

Thanks for the help, fellas. I haven't been on-line since my last post...had to walk away as I was a little upset for having to postpone the trip. But, at least it wasn't a write-off.
It looks like it was the relay that packed it in and you wouldn't believe how I figured it out. Well, actually RayZerman did most of the work but he made me realize that I wasn't observing the entire picture. After sleeping off some of the Scotch I started into mid-afternoon, I woke up at 2am, put on my robe and went down and bridged the relay to hear the starter actually work. I was using multi-meters and battery chargers prior to that but obviously I missed something.

I decided though that replacing the relay won't fix the problem enough to do another cross-country trip; the starter needs serving as that's ultimately what caused the problem. I just haven't decided if I want to take on that job.

fjRob: I will definitely look you up! I went to college in Lindsay and was a C.O. there before moving to the arctic on 2007. I lived on Glenelg street.

Blass: I did in fact to that and it ran fine. But, I knew I couldn't push start it across the country, no matter how desperate I was.  I actually found a couple of guys with same year as my bike with same problem. The starter is the culprit but it appears like the battery is drained. I guess the starter builds up internal resistance quickly, especially when hot from the engine, draws extra current and drains the battery in a flash. Even when the bike turns over, it doesn't want to start. Perhaps a voltage drop weakens the spark? The fuel pump is also energized through the starter relay so perhaps it doesn't work either when all the battery pixies are headed to the sick starter. All Ive concluded is all my troubles are from a starter with 150,000 kms on it and it's been getting worse over the past 3-4 years and all this time I thought it was cheap batteries I was putting in. 
Anyway, I'm in my car headed to Calgary and I'll have to watch my buddy drive his new-to-him ST 1300 while I follow from a Subaru. But, we plan to resume the journey Labour Day'ish.

R

 

[RossKean]

The real test for the starter is measuring the starting current draw.  The best way is a DC clamp on ammeter.  (Lots of the clamp on meters only read AC amps and volts.) 

 

[MajBach]

The real test for the starter is measuring the starting current draw.  The best way is a DC clamp on ammeter.  (Lots of the clamp on meters only read AC amps and volts.) 

I think I have one of those - the thing with the jaws? Never even used it. Impulse buy on a clearance sale I suspect. Does the starter have to be under load or can you take it out and put in on a bench to test it?

 

[MajBach]

starter tutorial if needed
https://candybuttorg.ipage.com/cba/node/491

That's actually really helpful info. I need to find me some more FJR friends that live closer to me. HaHa

 

[RossKean]

I think I have one of those - the thing with the jaws?

Yes, with the jaws.  Check it out to make sure it will read DC amps - a lot measure only AC.  Read Carver's tutorial.  Can be tested under load while trying to start the bike. Not sure what a truly healthy starter should draw but bad ones are maybe 80 amps plus.  Maybe some can chime in with "normal" current draw.

Note: A standard multimeter in amp mode won't work. Most have a maximum current of 10 amps and have to be connected in series.

 

[Intech]

60 to 70 amps is normal. Anything above that indicates that there is a drag and is likely the starter. Replacing the starter is really not that bad a job. You have to remove the air box and throttle body. The first time I did it it took longer as I had to figure it out. The last time I did it took only about 15 minutes after I had already had the seat and tank off. The last starter I replaced was drawing >100 amps DC. That will kill a new battery.

 

[Mortenk]

When my ST1300 battery was too low to start the bike normally, I simply bump started it. It took a week to get a new battery and I had no trouble bumping it every day. I go into a habit of parking in places with a slight decline, so that I could just saddle up, roll downhill in 2nd gear and let the clutch out - it was very easy and worked every time. I would not hesitate riding as long as bumping the bike is that easy. I have never tried bumping my FJR, but may try that today just so I know what to expect - when the day comes...

 

[Intech]

When my ST1300 battery was too low to start the bike normally, I simply bump started it. It took a week to get a new battery and I had no trouble bumping it every day. I go into a habit of parking in places with a slight decline, so that I could just saddle up, roll downhill in 2nd gear and let the clutch out - it was very easy and worked every time. I would not hesitate riding as long as bumping the bike is that easy. I have never tried bumping my FJR, but may try that today just so I know what to expect - when the day comes...

I have bumped the FJR. It won't work with a dead battery, though. That is why I bought a portable jump starter.