s.ga.rider
Well-known member
My 14 has no where near that much travel.
2013 Rear brake pedal movement?
- Thread starter dcarver
- Start date
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dcarver
Well-known member
BeemerD reports it's been that way, he just got used to it and didn't worry about it. He also said Naomi is due for a 12k service in 1k and the YES is transferable... so I'll probably go that way with this.
Yeah. Who needs rear brakes anyway?
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
Hi Don, please get the YES Warranty transferred within 15 days of your taking possession of Naomi. Here's the fine print, note it must be a Certified Yamaha Shop!
Since I am still basically a cripple, I was unable to ride the bike to my Yamaha shop for either any maintenance for 10+ months or to get a YES transfer inspection!
"Y.E.S. Contracts are transferrable.
To transfer the Y.E.S. Contract, from You (meaning the "SELLER"!) to the subsequest Customer (meaning YOU!), it is required that the transfer of registration and inspection be performed by a YAMAHA Dealer. A reasonable dealer imposed fee may be charged for this inspection. This transfer of registration must take place within fifteen (15) days of ownership change. At the time of transfer of registration, the Customer will be required to provide all required maintenance receipts or the properly completed Maintenance Log to the new owner. Although there is no transfer fee to transfer this contract, any dealer charges for performing any inspections necessary will be the Customer's responsibility."
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dcarver
Well-known member
Great Info, Thank you BD. I'll be calling the local legal dealer tomorrow. Was going to call today but they are closed Mondays. I did not know an inspection is required. It's all good though - whatever it takes to get 'r done!
dcarver
Well-known member
thinking out loud here..
if the front brake is magical
if the front brake operates ALL front pistons
..and the rear brake only operates 2 front pistons
..and the rear slave cylinder is solid
....then is it logical the air bubble has to be in the ABS unit?
if the front brake is magical
if the front brake operates ALL front pistons
..and the rear brake only operates 2 front pistons
..and the rear slave cylinder is solid
....then is it logical the air bubble has to be in the ABS unit?
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
I thought the front brake only operated 6 of the front pistons. I had a soft rear brake in my 08 and the air bubbles were in the front brake....and it took a lot of fluid to get rid of all of them.
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escapefjrtist
Searching for Dry Roads
DC...listen closely. You need to bleed the lower RH front caliper first, then move to the back caliper [Linked brakes, remember?]. I helped '007 bleed his '08 when the pedal was soft and had too much travel, his had quite a bit of air in the system from the factory.
FWIW when I got my '15 home the rear pedal wasn't very firm. This on a new [used] bike with 1800 miles on it. I bled the front & rear calipers and all's well now.
--G
FWIW when I got my '15 home the rear pedal wasn't very firm. This on a new [used] bike with 1800 miles on it. I bled the front & rear calipers and all's well now.
--G
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RossKean
Well-known member
As I mentioned in Post 16, the front brake hand lever activates three of the four piston pairs in the front. The fourth (lower right) is ONLY activated by the rear brake pedal. Good chance that this is the one that needs to be bled. As others have mentioned, bleed this one first using the rear pedal and then do the rear brakes.
Actually, kaitsdad picked up on an important clue: When you are pressing the pedal with your finger, there is a hitch that is happening at the 1/2 way point. I missed that detail when I first looked at it. That detail almost guarantees that the problem is in the front linked brake circuit.
With our linked brakes there is a proportioning valve that directs all of the fluid pressure to the rear brake circuit initially, until a pressure threshold is exceeded, at which point it directs some of the pressure to the front linked brake slave cylinder. That hitch appears to be the break over point of that proportioning valve, meaning there is air on the far side of the valve.
Vacuum bleed the front brake circuit first, and then don't touch the brake pedal before you bleed the rear brake circuit or you'll migrate some air into the just bled front.
With our linked brakes there is a proportioning valve that directs all of the fluid pressure to the rear brake circuit initially, until a pressure threshold is exceeded, at which point it directs some of the pressure to the front linked brake slave cylinder. That hitch appears to be the break over point of that proportioning valve, meaning there is air on the far side of the valve.
Vacuum bleed the front brake circuit first, and then don't touch the brake pedal before you bleed the rear brake circuit or you'll migrate some air into the just bled front.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
That first detent is where my brake pedal stops. I've got to agree; you have air in the front line.
rushes
Well-known member
I think phat phoot Don phucked it up....
beemerdons
Certifiable Old Fart
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wheatonFJR
...
Regarding Fred Ws response above, I have an ancillary question. I'm putting speed bleeders on my 13...if I was the one having the issue, would the recommendation be to bleed the rear hose first, then push from the brake pedal to the front linked caliper?
Sorry if this slightly off topic...if Don wants me to open my own thread...I will...and link to this one instead.
Sorry if this slightly off topic...if Don wants me to open my own thread...I will...and link to this one instead.
RaYzerman19
Go Wings!
You should always bleed the furthest one from the master cylinder first, so, you always bleed the front caliper first, then the rear caliper.
dcarver
Well-known member
What Fred Said...
So, today, I made a fairly big, for me, decision. I'm going to have the local Yamaha shop take care of Naomi. I have too many projects and only one lift. And limited time. So the Queen will be cared for by royalty. At least until the YES runs out...
BeemerD, Thank You for the good advice per PM. It worked out great... Naomi gets her YES inspection this Friday. I interviewed both the parts and the service guy today. It was a point-*******-blank discussion and I'm comfortable enough to test the relationship for the 12k service.
Like all relationships, we will see where it goes.
Trust, but Verify, Yes?
Got it! Thank you Fred and RossK and everyone.
So, today, I made a fairly big, for me, decision. I'm going to have the local Yamaha shop take care of Naomi. I have too many projects and only one lift. And limited time. So the Queen will be cared for by royalty. At least until the YES runs out...
BeemerD, Thank You for the good advice per PM. It worked out great... Naomi gets her YES inspection this Friday. I interviewed both the parts and the service guy today. It was a point-*******-blank discussion and I'm comfortable enough to test the relationship for the 12k service.
Like all relationships, we will see where it goes.
Trust, but Verify, Yes?
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Mark, that is a great question. My initial response would be (like Ray's) just do the furthest bleed nipple first at the front wheel, and work your way back towards the master cylinder. But let's examine the FJR's unified rear braking system a little ans see why that might be a problem with speed bleeders.
Here's a schematic diagram of the FJR Unified Braking system:
The two components that make the unified system different than any other multi-wheel braking system are the Proportioning valve (#4) and the Metering Valve (#6).
The Metering valve is the one that blocks the fluid pressure from the front wheel slave until a particular threshold has been reached. This allows you to use rear brake only, during low brake pressure situations.
The Proportioning valve's job is to gradually restrict higher fluid pressure from reaching the rear brake, so if you really stomp on the pedal more of the pressure is directed to the front wheel, as a means to delay the rear ABS activating when the rear wheel us about to lock up.
When you bleed the front brake with a speed bleeder, you need to exceed the Metering valve pressure threshold first, then exceed the speed bleeder's check valve pressure threshold, and then you'll be able to move the fluid and air out the bleeder and clear the front line. That should work fine
When you bleed the rear circuit you will just need to increase the line pressure enough to open the rear caliper's speed bleeder without opening the Metering valve, or else you could push air back into the front circuit. What I don't know is what the speed bleeder's pressure threshold is compared to the Metering valve's. I suspect that the bleeders check valve is weak compared to the valve, and so shouldn't be a problem. But it's worth keeping it in mind and not stomping on the brakes hard until both circuits have been cleared of all air.
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wheatonFJR
...
Thanks Fred for that thoughtful response.
Good figurin there Fred. If I ever own a new fangled FJR, this could come in handy.
RossKean
Well-known member
Just an observation from someone who bleeds Gen II without vacuum or speedbleeder assist...
When bleeding the lower front piston pair using the rear brake pedal, it does not take an inordinate amount of pressure on the pedal before fluid moves through the bleeder. I am wondering if this is an actual valve that releases at some specific elevated pressure or just an orifice that restricts the volume? In any case, I would still bleed the front (speedbleeders or manual) and then the rear without worrying about air bubbles getting pushed to where they don't belong. I've never had an issue doing it this way but, on the other hand, I have never started the process with any significant amount of air in the system.
I guess Don is going to let the local dealer solve this one but it would be interesting to confirm whether air in the front line is the problem.
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