2014 ES versus a good aftermarket suspension?

[Checkswrecks]

Most people never set up their suspension at all, or set sag once and forget it for the rest of their ownership. For carrying a passenger or bags, some people will flip the hard/soft lever or on other bikes crank up the spring preload. The ease of changing the ES setting at least helps in making different settings easier to try, which is great. But they are still OEM shocks and forks and most of us ride the same way day after day after getting a bike dialed in to where we like.

So I'm curious about how those who have ridden the ES bikes would rate the function of the ES system at your favorite setting, as opposed to a dialed-in customized Ohlins/Stoltec/etc set of aftermarket shock and forks?

 

[RaYzerman19]

This kinda is being discussed on other '14 threads, but I'm interested in those opinions too. Since dialing in a suspension can take months over various conditions, it may be some time before we get some real data. I'll only say for now that the A's flip lever for hard/soft is inadequate for me after having a fully adjustable aftermarket shock. And the '14ES may not have preload adjusters on the forks....... awaiting answer.

 

[ionbeam]

BMW K1300GT ESA felt about the equivalent to my Wilbers F/R equipped Gen I. There were three 'ranges' to first be selected -- solo, passenger and passenger plus luggage; once a range was selected there were adjustments to achieve normal, sport and comfort settings within that range. The ESA is not a precision scalpel system, but is more than sufficient to meet a normal range of street situations. If you need precision for one task, like the track, buy a narrow mission aftermarket system.

Riding through Big Basin in rain, mist and fog, then down the CA coast, then inland to ride in Sequoia, Yosemite and the Sonora Pass presented different situations that needed different suspension solutions. If I were on my FJR I probably wouldn't have stopped to make changes, then tweak the changes to get it correctly dialed in, I would have just soldiered on (and ignore pillion's complaints). There were steep, extremely tight hair-pins and sweepers which had to be done in the sport mode and high altitude weather torn roads that had to be done in the comfort mode, else be ejected. On a slab run I came out of the mountains in Sport, then as the terrain flattened out and traffic picked up I could select Comfort. If your day starts in Kansas and ends in Kansas and you rarely leave wheat and corn country the ES will not do much for you.

If the Yamaha ES works as good as my Wilbers and the adjustability has the dynamics to be equivalent to the ESA I'm in. Yamaha does mention that the ES is factory rebuildable so it isn't a big buck replace only system. Perhaps aftermarket will see a big enough market to adapt their technology to Yamaha's adjustment system.

 

[GeorgiaRoller]

Yamaha does mention that the ES is factory rebuildable so it isn't a big buck replace only system....

Where do they say that? If so, what is the estimated cost of rebuild?

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My guess is once you have push button electronic suspension at your fingertips (most people) will be more apt to use it. Especially if your a "jack of all trades" rider and you ride in a handful of solo & 2up setups on both touring & sporty riding conditions. If in fact in 30,000 miles of new 2014 ES ownership you feel the shocks are worn out and you can in fact factory rebuild them at a fraction of the cost of a new suspension setup that would be another good thing.

 

[snikr]

It might be nice if we could get input from someone who has ridden both the ES and the A. Or how they would compair to my 04 with Wilber upgrade.

 

[leclairk]

I would like to hear from someone in the 250lb range. Does the bike really handle the extra load? I know it says you can adjust for 2 up riding, but how does the bike's suspension handle it?

 

[Krell]

I would also be interested in how the ES deals with a middle aged butt like mine. I am about 235 lbs and ride fairly spirited and nearly always solo. I set the hard/soft lever to hard and forgot about it. I have also had to increase preload and compression damping to some degree. It would be nice to be able to soften it up for the slab and be able to tighten her up for the off ramp!

 

[STC10]

I liked the idea of an adjustable suspension because I do a lot of 2 up riding and think that an easily changeable suspension is the way to go. I set up my 06 stock suspension using suggestions from the forum. After that I never changed them. Maybe I'm in the minority but I am the kind of rider who will never come near the limits of my bikes performance nor am I interested in trying. However, I do see the advantage in being able to make adjustments for different load situations easily, on the fly.

I suspect that the ES may be a compromise for the serious canyon carver, peg draggers out there. If you do most of your riding solo and want a perfect suspension, my guess is that a custom suspension is best for you.

Of course this is all speculation on my part as my ES is hibernating in my garage with 45 miles on it. It looks nice next to my 06 though.

 

[pcarnut]

My 07 has a Hagon shock and when I changed to it from the stocker it was like a different bike. Turn in was sharper and ride was much more controlled. I've had a chance to ride an ES and feel it is at least as good or better than my Hagon equipped bike. The ride is controlled and well balanced, it hustles through turns very nicely. I think it is a worthwhile cost over an A.

 

[Niehart]

I liked the idea of an adjustable suspension because I do a lot of 2 up riding and think that an easily changeable suspension is the way to go.

I think the easily changeable suspension would be great for someone that rides in all the different modes [with out bags, with bags, with a passenger, with a passenger loaded for the long haul) National Forrest Road NF 25].

 

[Checkswrecks]

This kinda is being discussed on other '14 threads, but I'm interested in those opinions too. Since dialing in a suspension can take months over various conditions, it may be some time before we get some real data. I'll only say for now that the A's flip lever for hard/soft is inadequate for me after having a fully adjustable aftermarket shock. And the '14ES may not have preload adjusters on the forks....... awaiting answer.

I saw lots of discussion Ray, but what I had not seen and am asking about is a slight tangent.

The aftermarket suspensions just work so much better than stock with less stiction, softer compression, etc, that I am wondering if the actual function of the ES has that wonderful feel to it or even approaches the feel.

I was hoping that we had somebody who has traded in an aftermarket suspension Gen 1 or 2 for an ES bike.

 

[MCRIDER007]

So I'm curious about how those who have ridden the ES bikes would rate the function of the ES system at your favorite setting, as opposed to a dialed-in customized Ohlins/Stoltec/etc set of aftermarket shock and forks?

I haven't ridden (or even seen) the 2014 Yamaha ES but have ridden 4 different BMWs and 3 Ducatis with ES and found that the 2013 MultiStrada with the Skyhook semi-active ES was by far the best of the bunch and the closest to a dialed in aftermarket suspension. The earlier MultiStradas had the option to fine tune the damping presets so they might also been very good with damping adjustments but the 2 bikes I rode had a pretty harsh ride on all settings.

I think an aftermarket system is always going to have a significant advantage over an ES as long as the ES springs are one size fits all. The fork springs are somewhat universal because the load on them doesn't vary that much but its a much different story on the shock where there can be huge variations in load, especially when the bike is intended for both solo and 2-up riding. Adding preload to the shock spring will keep the sag and steering geometry consistent but a heavily preloaded spring is not going to give the same ride quality and handling performance of a heavier less preloaded spring. Penske and Ohlins both seem to aim at 10mm of base preload when determining spring size. I haven't seen any data on the shock spring size Yamaha is using on the ES so its anyone's guess what the "ideal" weight would be, but if Motorcyclist is correct that the 4 options are only separated by 8mm of preload, that doesn't seem like that is enough to maintain sag over a very wide weight range.

I currently have a Wilbers shock set up for me with a 800 lb spring and a base preload of 10mm. It also a remote preload adjustment and a ride height adjustment to compensate for additional weight. Last year I adjusted the shock to compensate for a 175 lb passenger and had to use all the remote preload adjustment (an additional 10 mm) and all of the available ride height adjustment (5mm) to get the sag close to where it was without the passenger. I really needed a much heavier spring to carry the additional weight because the ride quality suffered and I bottomed several times.

A bit off topic........but I think that Yamaha's dual shock spring setup could be ideal for someone who goes back and forth between solo and 2-up on a regular basis if the proper springs were available. The GEN2s only had a 710 lb spring for the hard setting and that is clearly inadequate for even a 225 lb solo rider. I'm not aware that anyone has actually measured the hard spring rate on the GEN3's shock but Yamaha's FSM claims it is 976 lbs (which also raises the soft setting to 650 lbs). The '13 demo I rode last May didn't seem to have spring rates anywhere near the published rates, I quickly switched to the Hard setting because the sag on the Soft setting was excessive. Overall, the suspension felt very similar to a GEN2. In October I rode another '13 demo, started in the Hard setting and quickly switched to the Soft setting because the Hard setting didn't seem to have any give at all. Overall, the suspension's spring rates on that demo seemed to be in line with the rates shown in the FSM. After talking to several '13 owners and reading all the different (and varying) comments on this forum regarding the '13s suspension, I'm wondering if Yamaha is using different suppliers for their springs and the '13s have been delivered with different spring rates. I ended up buying the demo and at this point do not see any reason to change the suspension. I normally ride with the shock in the Soft position but have not tried the Hard position with a passenger.