2014 Heavyweight Sport-Tourer Shootout

[Rain Dancer]

I just love these threads. I really wonder why the FJR contingent (not all, I realize) seem so against Beemers. Someone making YOU spend your money on one? I am sure BanjoBoy has ridden a lot of BMW’s since he claims they shift like tractors with authority. I have ridden newer BMW’s and find they shift as well as the Japanese bikes. The GS that was mentioned (I did read that article) because it did so many different things well. It was an off handed comment at the end of the article, nothing more. The style must be a money maker since even Yamaha has entered the adventure Market.

As to the fuel used, I don’t feel any touring bike should require premium. Not for cost, although it will add up when you ride 10-15,000 a year. I don’t want a bike that requires premium because we travel a lot of places that we can’t get it. That simple….Newfoundland was tough, some areas out west, that sort of deal.

The video was amusing to me in how lazy and just like car drivers motorcyclists have become. Using a key to open the bags is inconvenient? A bike HAS to have cruise? I keep my ’04 because it’s simple. I dread the FJR getting everything that seems to be wanted on her…weight just keeps climbing. In one respect I wish the FJR was still a special order bike, and you could order it stripped or loaded. Triumph knows the American buying public, they don’t even sell the stripped version of their bike in the states.

These comparisons are informative, but as to a winner in a shootout? That depends on who is buying the bike. My being happy with my Feejer doesn’t depend on it winning a shootout, or knocking someone else’s ride.

 

[Twigg]

Selling a base-model bike and allowing the customer to specify the "extras" they want is a very good idea, in theory.

I say that because the manufacturers then charge stupid money for items that are common-place ... $750 for a top case anyone? $400 for heated bar grips??? $1300 for ABS?? Seriously?

If they add all that stuff to the bike, and sell it loaded, they have to compete in the "vehicle cost" market, and they can't mark up the prices so much, or at all.

So they try to scam you both ways. A stripped down motorcycle at a price that really is a bit too much for it's lack of features, bolstered by manufacturer farkles that they are enormously proud of.

BMW took the other route. They trade on a reputation they built from the sixties through the nineties. On that basis they went with the "premium product, premium price" route ... then their product started breaking .... Now they are simply over-priced bikes in a competitive market. I don't say they are bad bikes, but $26 0000 ... two thirds more than the Connie those paid employees compared it to?

 

[HotRodZilla]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.

I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Twigg]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Welcome to America, where Harleys have been selling like hot cakes since the 80s.

The problem in the US is that the entire market that really can be described as being distorted by "over-priced, unreliable tractors", and they don't have Blue and White Roundels on their tanks

The rest compete for about 5 to 10% of the market, and few models are offered, with fewer dealerships supporting them. It isn't an accident that the US rarely gets new models first.

The buyers of European and Japanese large capacity motorcycles are, as a group, small and knowledgeable. They are not typical US consumers ... and some buy HD too, but they probably know what they are getting, and have the fortitude to cope

 

[BanjoBoy]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Harley can't keep their show rooms full either. It's not cuz their bike are any good, or a good value, it's cuz HD 'n Buy Mor Warranty sell a "life style" image. 'N that's wut sells.

I remeber people lining up ta buy pet rocks when I wuz a young'n too; there's a sucker born evey minute.

 

[Last Chance]

Consumer education in the United States is woefully inadequate

 

[exskibum]

See the influence of Edward Bernays and his psychology of crowds on marketing products. HD and BMW are paradigm examples of its implementation.

 

[Twigg]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Harley can't keep their show rooms full either. It's not cuz their bike are any good, or a good value, it's cuz HD 'n Buy Mor Warranty sell a "life style" image. 'N that's wut sells.

I remeber people lining up ta buy pet rocks when I wuz a young'n too; there's a sucker born evey minute.

It's actually more to do with the fact that we are still suffering from ten years of recessionary effect on ordinary folk ... discretionary spending has been pared to the bone for many, and the Baby Boomers are beginning to hang up their helmets.

That's not to detract from your points though.

 

[SkooterG]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Perhaps. But BMW has a fraction of the dealers. And their market share compared to the Japanese brands is a pittance -just a drop in the bucket.

 

[PapaUtah]

Products built by The Motor Company have proven to be more reliable than the products coming out of the Bavarian Motor Werks. Both are woeful products compared to the competition available. However, a motorcycle purchase is not always about the motorcycle. Sitting in a conference call a few years back with Harley-Davidson CEO at the time Jeff Bleustein said it best. He addressed an analyst question on product thusly, "At Harley-Davidson we do not sell motorcycles. We sell a lifestyle and an image. The motorcycle is secondary in the transaction."

 

[art miller]

Regarding Twigg's comment, "the U.S. rarely gets the new models first", I do not think it is because the U.S. has a lesser demand for sport touring bikes. I have been on every continent except Antarctica and I have never seen more sport touring bikes in any country on average than you see in the U.S. I was in Germany and Austria in May and I was surprised at the lack of BMW RT's and K1600's. I do not think I saw more than two 1600's during my 10 day tour.

Hardley Davidson is a cult bike for the most part and we may as well write off sheep who follow that culture. I have several friends who ride them and they fully realize those vibrators are no match in the twisties for a real sport tourer. They just seem to be content to thump along wearing the garb and hoping the chicks will notice the chrome. They turn up the music and blip the throttle to get their attention. That's generally the Hardley crowd!!

 

[Twigg]

The US represented only 12% of BMW motorcycle sales in 2013

https://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-news/statistics/motorcycle-sales-statistics.htm

Germany, France, Italy, UK and Spain ... roughly an equal population, bought 47%

 

[WWWobble]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

1. Visit at random any 10 BMW motorcycle dealers in the U.S. and then compare them to 10 at random visits to a dealer selling Yamahas.

2. Try to order parts for a 14 year old Yamaha at any dealer selling Yamahas, and then try ordering parts for a 14 year old Beemer at any BMW dealer.

3. Ask for a test ride at 10 random BMW motorcycle dealers in the U.S. and then ask for a test ride at any 10 random dealers selling Yamahas.

4. Schedule routine service at a BMW dealership and ask for a loaner bike for the day or two, and then try the same at any dealer servicing Yamaha.

I believe you'll find the BMW dealerships much more customer oriented. I agree with what you observe, and believe an excellent manufactured product, the Yamaha (and other Japanese makes), are let down by an outdated dealership system.

WWWobble

 

[Ignacio]

After all these years it still amazes me an FJR forum thread so easily devolves into hand-wringing about Harley Davidson....and to a lesser extent BMW. I'm pretty sure there isn't the same sort of digital masturbation about FJRs or Yamahas on those forums.

 

[Twigg]

After all these years it still amazes me an FJR forum thread so easily devolves into hand-wringing about Harley Davidson....and to a lesser extent BMW. I'm pretty sure there isn't the same sort of digital masturbation about FJRs or Yamahas on those forums.

Until the IBR comes around, and they wonder what hit them

Harley have their own big rally, and they won't let anyone else enter! It started today and I hope they are having a blast.

 

[lnewlf]

ride what u likz dmmt

 

[Redfish Hunter]

After all these years it still amazes me an FJR forum thread so easily devolves into hand-wringing about Harley Davidson....and to a lesser extent BMW. I'm pretty sure there isn't the same sort of digital masturbation about FJRs or Yamahas on those forums.

Especially since I never saw a Harley in this Sport Tourer Comparison.

I don't know about the HD and BMW forums, I don't lurk there. I can say that on the Honda ST1300 forums there is a great deal of FJR discussion and it is mostly positive. But there is a fair amount of BMW bashing on the ST1300 forums as well.

 

[Rain Dancer]

ride what u likz dmmt

I hold no animosity towards any brand...some riders, yes. When we travel we see more HD's and BMW's than anything else. As stated earlier, HD is not a sport tourer, it is what it is, and some people love them, just like the Yamaha Star line. Folks I know with beemers love them too. As to problems, I don't know....I seem to remember FJR's being discussed here and Yamaha being bad mouthed a lot when the valve guide issue was big. (just for the record, I have had at least 1 Yamaha in my house or garage sine '74) If I got to test all new bikes that came out, maybe I would get jaded too...until I had to open my wallet and spend my own money. That is where I like MCN, they have a testers log, where those comments show up.

The AMA spends so much time trying to get us accepted by the general populace, and we can't even tolerate other among ourselves.

 

[BanjoBoy]

I walked into our BMW dealer the other day. ALL the 2014 1200GSAs were sold and there was only one Rt left on the floor. Lots of 1600s available, but not the same ones I saw two weeks earlier. Seems that while Yamaha is fighting for market share, BMW is doing very well.
I wonder why that is, seeing how according to a few here BMWs are overpriced, unreliable tractors. Hmmmmmmmmm.

1. Visit at random any 10 BMW motorcycle dealers in the U.S. and then compare them to 10 at random visits to a dealer selling Yamahas.

2. Try to order parts for a 14 year old Yamaha at any dealer selling Yamahas, and then try ordering parts for a 14 year old Beemer at any BMW dealer.

3. Ask for a test ride at 10 random BMW motorcycle dealers in the U.S. and then ask for a test ride at any 10 random dealers selling Yamahas.

4. Schedule routine service at a BMW dealership and ask for a loaner bike for the day or two, and then try the same at any dealer servicing Yamaha.

I believe you'll find the BMW dealerships much more customer oriented. I agree with what you observe, and believe an excellent manufactured product, the Yamaha (and other Japanese makes), are let down by an outdated dealership system.

WWWobble

Bring Mor Wankers dealers gotta be nicer 'n bettah, cuz their customer's bikes spend so much time there get'in fixed!

See ya

 

[Top_Speed1]

The vast majority of us owners at k1600forum.com came from (or are still/past) owners of FJR's, Connies and ST's. The 1200** guys very rarely convert, they are dedicated to their 2 bangers and feel 6 cylinders is overkill.

On that Forum they rarely (if ever) bash another bike like here on this one. Those owners could really care less what somebody else drives as long as that person is happy with it. A few times (well probably many!) I have mentioned my FJR and have had positive responses from past or present owners. "Oh, TS, I use to have a 2006 FJR and it was a very good bike!" ....very, very common over there. All prior ST bike owners will also mention, "it was a natural progression for them" as it was for me.

The big dolla's suck, really suck! and nobody can hide from that and it creates some hatrid as clearly shown here. But!, we are all VERY happy with our purchases, as so should you (us) FJR owners as well!. It's not apples vs apples and never will be.

For the Banji boy; Sure you pay more but you get more with the Beemer as well. You can squeal like a pig all you want about your mesmerizing warranty hangup thing (buy more warranty) but, I still have 2 years and 10 months left (and, it wasn't extra either). It's bumper to bumper coverage minus tires, so play that one on your banjo

oh, btw if you didn't know, Yamaha is 1 Year, that's 3X the Buy (no) More Warranty. You can keep showing your ignorance however, it does give me the "Deliverance" image every-time I read one of your responses. And, It's quite amusing ...I guess lol