2nd gear issues

[rpm]

First glitch after 62,000 carefree miles on my 2013 FJR. 2nd gear has a momentary slip at about 4500 rpm, but only if you really open the throttle. Feels like you've hit an ice patch, then recovers. Stays in gear, doesn't occur in other gears or if you accelerate moderately. Found some references on this Forum, but years ago. Dealer (great team at Capitol Cycle in Macon GA) believes it's 2nd gear dog wear. Single owner with no abuse. Looking at $2,000 +/- in parts and labor. No YES, but I'm expecting Yamaha to help with the cost because I think this is a mfg flaw.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[ionbeam]

The symptom sounds just like gear dog wear and or bent shift forks. Typically, clutch slip happens in higher gears. It's vary uncommon for a FJR to have second gear and sometimes fourth gear dog/shift fork issues but it does happen. You may not have abused your FJR but sometimes the rider unknowingly can cause problems. One FJR owner loaned his FJR to a friend for a while, the friend would come to a stop without down shifting and then at a stop try to down shift. The transmission wouldn't shift and instead of feathering the clutch and trying again he just kept stomping on the shifter. When the fellow got his bike back it would pop out of second gear. Another larger footed person would rest his foot on the shifter keeping pressure on it all the time; his FJR also developed a second gear problem. I'm not saying you did these things, just that a rider can unknowingly do things that can lead to problems. And, **** happens

You have about a 0% chance of Yamaha helping with the cost, but it's always worth a try. Back in the dark ages my '04 had a CCT with a spring too weak to take up chain slack and that resulted in a crushed valve train and damaged cylinder head. The CCT was redesigned by Yamaha but in spite of knowing the CCT had issues and in spite of my dealer and the Yamaha regional rep going to bat for me Yamaha refused to cover any parts or labor cost.

 

[wfooshee]

The dog wear and shift fork wear is a self-feeding cycle of parts eating themselves. Dog wear puts a slope on the mating surfaces of the dogs, which

induces a side force on the gear wheel, which wears the shift fork, which means it can't move the gear wheel all the way into the engagement of the dogs, which wears the dogs into more of a slope, which

Once the engine is out and the case split, it's an easy fix.......

That looks like I'm making light of your problem, but I'm not. I went through it myself last summer. My broke *** did all the work myself, which meant the bike was down quite a while. Mine was 2nd and 4th gears, and 4th had no symptoms while riding, although 2nd had the skip symptom you describe, once in a while. I was also fortunate enough to be able to lay claim to used parts out of an engine with completely different problems, so my only out-of-pocket was some tools, some shipping, and some time.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Hmmm,perhaps a similar problem in this thread...

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/165731-my-turn/

 

[rPGoatBoy]

It really only takes one or two shanked 1-2 shifts at WOT to bend a fork or remove some material from the gear dogs/pockets. It happens. Also, the rare but possible false neutral and trying to get it back into gear in traffic, etc. happens. And as Wfooshee mentioned, it's a progressive problem. It's not necessarily confined to one manufacturer of bikes, all bikes with sequential manual transmissions are susceptible to this problem. The more powerful the bike, the more likely for it to happen. We're talking about A LOT of power being controlled with an error prone human foot in the mix. I still have yet to hear of an AE bike with mechanical transmission issues.

I'm the unicorn of the forum who has split his motor twice to fix 2nd gear, the first time with new gears and a better condition fork, second time with all new, and I had sent 2nd gear set out to APE racing for an undercut.

Here's what I learned: Preload. When you preload the shifter during upshifts, you'll find that simply pulling in the clutch is enough for the gear dogs to engage smoothly. I was doing it wrong, thinking the best thing to happen was to stab it quickly with my size 13 steel toe boot, which is only partially correct. Quick shifts are a plus, quick shifts without preload ...aren't. They don't tell you that in the manual, they only convey that you should be shifting at low rpm/power/speed to cover their ***** for warranty claims. I learned to ride 8 years ago on an 800 lb. Royal Star with a heel toe shifter; it wasn't much of an issue on that bike.

I also gained valuable knowledge about the bike by pretty much gutting it twice. Second time around she got a new suspension because it was convenient at the time. (Seriously consider it if you've got the coin)

If you've got a mechanic you trust, that's fantastic. But I'm not sure I'd want to leave such a task to just any mouth breathing ***** with a wrench.

As ionbeam mentioned, you're probably SOL with a warranty claim, but I do wish you luck. If you're mechanically inclined and have a modest tool collection, you can pull it off yourself for under/around $4-500 bucks. But realize that you're in for a lot of work, and patience is valuable. Nothing too complex or challenging, just lots of things to do. Do lots of reading on this forum, it's been documented with pictures a few times.

Or you can sell it cheap to someone willing to fix it and pick up one of those sweet '16s next spring.

 

[s.ga.rider]

60k miles on a 2013..... you been doing some riding. The 2 bikes I had clutch slippage on were both in 1,2nd gear where the most power and stain was put on it. 4500 rpms seems low though. both of mine were in peak hp range. Easiest way to eliminate the clutch it to pull it out and inspect it.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Sorry, rpm. Does the dealer have access to national repair records? Is this a recurring thing across the country?

 

[mikeames]

Before my current '12 FJR, I had an '82 XJ1100J. They are notorious for losing second gear. I'm a good mechanic and rarely trust taking my stuff to a stealer.

Any way the best way to deal with transmision issues on that bike was to turn the whole bike upside down. That's right...you pull the bars, sissy bar and a few other things and flip the bike over (bring several friends). Once upside down you can pull the pan off and all the shift forks are now oriented in a way that makes them easy to remove and install. With the bike right side up you would have been trying to lay underneath it with very little room and it would take a dozen hands to hold everything in place to put it back together because the shift forks all want to fall out.

Obviously this is a very different bike and you MAY actually have to pull the engine to get to the trans...but if you don't then flipping it upside down may be a good option for you.

Just thought I'd throw this out there in the event that you do it yourself. I know it sounds like a ton of work, and it is, but it made the job vastly easier.

 

[wfooshee]

You could probably access the shift forks and the drum with just the oil pan removed, but you still have to first remove the output shaft (that feeds the u-joint in the drive shaft) and the middle gear shaft after removing the oil pan. You could not inspect or repair the actual transmission, though, without splitting the case, which can't be done with the engine in the bike, as the lower crankcase carries many of the engine mount points.

 

[rpm]

Really appreciate the feedback!

Just took a 1700 mile trip and didn't have any problem, but I took it real easy in 2nd. With long trips planned for spring and summer (CA, AK), part of me wants to trade up to the 2016 as soon as they're available. But with 65K miles, minor scuffs, and trans issues, trade in on the 2013 is low. And I don't want to be among the first to get the new model. Getting her fixed is probably the best path. Will pursue Yamaha relief, but understand that it's a long shot. Still unsure if it's a defect or something I'm doing to cause dog to wear, and also wondering why I would get another FJR when I had this costly experience. I wish I had the skills to turn the bike upside down, but I let the dealer do all maintenance, so that's not in the cards.

So I ask myself, what would Uncle Hud do?

 

[ionbeam]

...I don't want to be among the first to get the new mode...unsure if it's a defect or something I'm doing to cause dog to wear, and also wondering why I would get another FJR when I had this costly experience....

FWIW, the '16 has a new transmission design, revolutionary, not evolutionary so whatever is going on between you and your FJR now, it will be different with a '16. Yamaha chased the dogs out of the transmission, locked the gears to a shaft and added another gear.