2nd Gen windshield tuning

[harper]

The 3rd Gen windscreen tuning is discussed in this thread. I strayed off topic in that thread and started asking questions about changing the windscreen tilt on Gen 2 FJRs. So I decided to start this one.

In the Gen 3 thread, Harald indicated that he had done a simple modification. I had intended to meet Harald at the PNW fall tech meet but he was unable to show so I met him at his workplace today to take a look at the spacers he installed. The spacing required between the windscreen mount plate and the drive mechanism on Gen 2 FJRs is actually quite small because they are inserted so close to the drive mechanism pivot point. The windscreen, however, can only be easily tilted back toward the rider. It looked like Harald had less than 0.100" of spacing and it tilted his VStream back to the point where it almost touched the console panels.

I went home and yanked the windscreen and removed the two 10mm hex screws holding the mounting plate to the drive mechanism and installed a 0.163" stack of washers on each side. This tilted my VStream back about as much as Harald's. I reassembled and tried it out on the freeway. It was a breezy day and I did short runs with the wind and then against the wind at speeds up to about 80mph.The buffeting was substantially reduced but, since I sit up a little higher than Harald, I had quite a bit of air flowing over the top with the windscreen fully extended.

I went home and removed a washer from the stack reducing it to 0.113" on each side. The tilt was reduced as expected. I reproduced my test runs. With the smaller stacks I had some more buffeting and a lot less air flow over the top. I'll try it like this for a while. It's easy to adjust.

 

[Mad German]

I'd love to see pics of this mod. Any chance you can post some up for us?

 

[Harald]

Glad we were able to connect yesterday, Harper. The difference may not be monumental, but it's cheap and easy to try.

This old thread has a picture of the spacer mod:

https://www.fjrforum....eens/?p=1062765

 

[harper]

Here are some less-than-ideal photos that I took today. I also timed the change out procedure. I found a bunch of 0.050" stainless steel washers so I stacked 0.000" (stock), 0.150", and 0.200" to compare them. After I got all the tools required out, it took 11 minutes start to finish to alter the washer stacks.I used a setup in my wet garage to throw a shadow off the windscreen and then trace the outline to compare. Note that if you want to stack washers and not glue them together, it's easy to loop dental floss through the stack to dangle them in place, insert the bolt, and then remove the dental floss. If you're going to try several different combinations, just leave the dental floss and tighten it into the stack to facilitate removing and reinserting them. The photos of the windscreen heights are pretty lousy because the ladder on which the camera is resting obscured part of the lens and the flash washed them out somewhat.

Here's the setup I used to cast the shadows:

Here is the washer stack:

Here's the stock setup all the way down:

Here's the 0.150" stack all the way down:

Here's the 0.200" stack all the way down:

Here's the stock setup all the way up:

Here's the 0.150" stack all the way up:

Here's the 0.200" stack all the way up:

A comparison of the traces of the shadows cast:

Again, I'm sorry about the photo quality...but not that sorry.

 

[harper]

Glad we were able to connect yesterday, Harper. The difference may not be monumental, but it's cheap and easy to try.

This old thread has a picture of the spacer mod:

https://www.fjrforum....eens/?p=1062765

Yeah, Harald. Using the 0.200" stack I'm able to use the stock 10mm head hex screws. The spacers I see in the thread you cite look much thicker and would require longer screws. I think you said you used longer screws but I didn't get the spacer thickness from you. You did this long ago and may not remember the thickness.

The weather was kind to me yesterday but will not behave today.

 

[harper]

I have tried some more windscreen tuning and seem to be out of luck. I have employed the Gen 2 spacer trick with the V-Stream windshield and have used spacers that I have now varied from 0.2" to 0.6" but always seem to get the same result. The rake of the windscreen changes noticeably with different spacers but the height of the windscreen changes only by about 1/4" overall. I always end up with a lot of wind buffeting over 65 mph when I sit up straight in a comfortable riding position with any spacing (0.0", 0.2", 0.4", or 0.6"). I can duck down an inch or so and get into the quiet zone. I like the idea of Polycarbonate because it is so shatter-resistant. But V-Stream makes the Gen 2 windscreen in exactly one size...exactly not right for me. For my build and posture it just seems that the V-Stream is too short.

My build and posture: 6'1" with 34" inseam and orangutan-like arms. This has me sitting further back than the average, more humanly-evolved guy with normal arms. I also use highway pegs and have a RDL saddle set to the low position. All of this determines uniquely where my helmet is with respect to the top edge of the windscreen while sitting upright. Even though the rake of the windscreen and horizontal position of the edge of the windscreen change with the spacers, the height really doesn't and that elusive quiet spot is always just an inch or so lower than the top of my helmet. I am either fatigued by buffeting or fatigued by slouching.

I'm thinking of getting a Cee Bailey or a CalSci windscreen because I think I can get one that is an inch or two taller than the V-Stream. The way the three vendors list their product's overall height seems to vary, however, and I wonder how to compare them This also means going to acrylic which is not my preference. I don't really care that Cee Bailey makes acrylic aircraft parts or that CalSci thinks they can eliminate vortices because they know that hydrogen orbitals are solutions to LaPlace's equation. I just want a windscreen that puts the quiet spot where my helmet is. Does anyone with dimensions similar to mine think that the taller windscreens work for them?

 

[RossKean]

I have trouble as well. I have a V-Stream and a Cee Bailey w reverse flip (but a shorter one). Windshield nirvana is not so much about the height of the windshield as it is about how the air moves around it. It is actually sometimes quieter with the windshield partway down - more wind but the air is less turbulent. Some find better solutions with other shields or with a laminar lip. I'm done spending money on it so I get by with the shields I have and a decent pair of earplugs. If you come up with a low-cost "tuning" solution, let me know.

(6'3", 34" inseam, stock seat at higher level)

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

I am 6'3" 34 inseam. The Vstream was too short for me - I had to slouch to get in calm air. I found the best combination for me is the Rifle +6" with an X-Screen tour mounted at the top. It is perfect for me. I did try a laminar lip but it wasn't quite enough.

I tried:

Rifle +6"

Rifle with laminar lip

VStream

VStream with laminar lip

VStream with XScreen

Rifle with XScreen - bliss

 

[harper]

Thanks for the responses. Although I realize that a great deal of the optimization of windshield tuning has to do with airflow around the windshield itself, the airflow around the windshield necessarily depends on the windshield design. Part of that design is the height. I think windshield tuning also depends on the location of one's helmet and probably one's arms with respect to the rest of the bike/rider geometry.

I can find out where the turbulence and wind buffeting are easily...it's where my helmet is with the V-Stream fully up. I can also find the high wind noise location...it's where my helmet is with the windshield partially or fully down. I also know that I can duck down or slouch down an inch or two or three with the windshield fully up and my helmet is suddenly in the no-buffeting, no-noise zone. That's where I want my helmet to be when I'm sitting upright.

I saw a couple of Rifle jumbo-sized windshields in the FOR SALE forum but they both turned out to have already been sold. I can buy a barn-door design Cee Bailey or CalSci windshield and try it out. Like most folks, I dislike dumping a couple of hundred bucks on a product just to find out that it doesn't solve my problem. I also prefer polycarbonate to acrylic. I guess I just have to remember that the highway pegs I bought were a real game changer for me and were a similar financial risk.

 

[WTP07]

Not sure if this helps, but here is my input:

I have both the OEM and the V-stream. I am 5'8" on a good day, 5'9" on skates. You get the idea. I'm vertically challenged.

With the V-stream on, un-modified, I find that I need to have it set so it is just below my line of sight, so I am JUST looking overtop of the screen. This gets me zero wind buffet on my head and zero back pressure.

On my ride last week I did a fair bit of riding with the screen in the full up position. (It was 45°F) and I found that my lower back took a LOT of wind in that position. I could feel the cold creeping between the jacket and pants.

I think the reverse flip of the V-stream does a good job of moving the air over your head, but creates that back pressure. I am thinking that maybe a "straight" touring sheild might be a better fit for me at my shorter height.

I hope you find the "sweet spot" for you. It seems like a lot of trial and error, unfortunately.

 

[Harald]

I have a Cee Bailey +4 +4 with flip that you're welcome to try. It's probably close to the height of the Vstream, but the flip does add effective height. I run a +2 height with flip CB in the summer and love it over the stock shield that I never use (and have actually cut down for really hot summer use due to it's massive airflow).

 

[harper]

Hey, Harald, thanks. When we met up in October I thought you had a V-Stream windshield. Did you have one of the Cee Baileys mounted at that time? The Cee Bailey +4 +4 is the one that's 23" tall and 4 extra inches wide, isn't it? The nominal height of the V-Stream is 22.25", I think. I also think the way that these windshield vendors measure the height is inconsistent. Are you currently using the +4 +4? I might like to try it sometime and I do have your phone number and might call to meet up next week sometime.

 

[Harald]

Hey, Harald, thanks. When we met up in October I thought you had a V-Stream windshield. Did you have one of the Cee Baileys mounted at that time? The Cee Bailey +4 +4 is the one that's 23" tall and 4 extra inches wide, isn't it? The nominal height of the V-Stream is 22.25", I think. I also think the way that these windshield vendors measure the height is inconsistent. Are you currently using the +4 +4? I might like to try it sometime and I do have your phone number and might call to meet up next week sometime.

I probably had the Vstream mounted in October because that's my winter shield. Your measure of the +4 CB and Vstream are close to what I measured a long time ago. I think the CB was only about 1/2 inch taller when I measured. True dat about difference in measuring by manufacturers and owners.

 

[Brodie]

Harper

I have the Rifle barn door (+4w +8t) on my 2nd Gen. Advanced Edition. I must admit it is huge, but I ride with it at 1/3 height and it seems to work the best for me. When I first got my '06 many many years ago I went for about a week with the stock in place, and it drove me straight to CalSci in West Sacramento for a fitting. The gentleman there was nice enough to mount the tallest one he made for me to try out, and it worked well. I ran that one for several years until I had a chance to try my friend's Rifle barn door. I'm 6'4" with a 40 inch inseam, yet sit tall in the saddle that my seat maker moved me back by 3/4 inch. With the CalSci the height is there, but it narrows at the top. There is a little wind passing around and hitting my helmet causing some noise, but not all that bad, the vent at the base does work at reducing the back pressure.

The Rifle sits on a rake adjuster which tips the shield back a bit, but also lifts it away from the body work. This allows a bit more air to pass through underneath which also decreases the low air pressure. The airflow is quite laminar. I ride with the shield's top edge just below my sight line and it works great. It's a more laid back angle which I think offsets the extra frontal area being pushed through the wind, but if necessary I can put it full up and literally hide behind it. Full down I'LL GET DIRECT WIND ON MY HELMET WITH THE ASSOCIATED WIND NOISE, BUT RAISE IT A LITTLE AND ALL DIRECT WIND IS DEFLECTED AWAY FROM MY HELMET ALTOGETHER. THIS MAKES FOR A VERY QUIET RIDE, WHICH IS MY MAIN GOAL. THE WIND THAT I HEAR is the bike, not me - unless of course I had beans for lunch.

I've ran this Rifle for 7 years now and am quite happy with it. However, there are times when I need to hold the top edge to keep it from whipping about when passing through the bow shock of a big rig that I'm overtaking. Sometimes I get behind a vehicle which produces a dirty airstream and affects how the bike feels. Did I tell you this thing is big? So far I've had no issues with the electric windshield mechanism, but when at speed there is quit a bit of push on the thing, so much that I've gotten into the habit of helping the top edge up with my right hand while pushing the up button, I love my cruise control.

When I got my '08 two years ago I went back to a CalSci and ran it for about 4 months and really wasn't happy with it any more having had a better experience with the Rifle. I was almost pleased that it was broken when that bat flew into it early one morning on Interstate 5 just south of Los Baños out in California's central valley. A piece did break off the CalSci, as well as the thing splitting right down the middle, and I did get blood from the poor critter all over the top of my 'Stitch and helmet, but that's all it did, and a bit of duct tape held it together until I made it back home.

Just for kicks I bought a V Stream to replace it, but it only took a couple of miles when I realized I'm too tall for it. No matter where I set it I just couldn't get the thing to work at all for me without really hunching down and forward into it's sweet spot.

Yeah, it's big, but you get used to it quickly. You're looking at my 2nd '06 on one of my trips, my ride buddy Russ Perry is in the background. We were doing water crossings (at speed

) on some flash flooded Nevada highways that morning. This shows the rake adjusters lifting it away from the body work, but since it's only at about 1/3 rise, the angle is still swept back a bit, that's the beauty of a barn door. This windshield is +4 inches wider than stock, and +8 inches taller than stock. It also has the grey tint to it. My current one is on the charcoal color '08 and the brown smoke color on it looks even better.

I hope this helps with your quest.

Brodie

 

[Brodie]

Here is a picture of my first '06 many years ago with the tallest CalSci mounted to it.

Notice how much narrower it is on top, and how much straighter upright it sits. I was quite happy with how it performed until I tried the Rifle barn door. They're both good windshields, the Rifle works best for me. When I first got the bike I was spending a bit of time in the hills and the CalSci fits better for that purpose, however, lately I rather prefer the longer distance rides and I think the Rifle shines best there.

Brodie

 

[harper]

What I notice is the gorgeous paint job on the 2006. Nice touch. Why didn't that carry over to the 2008?

Any of the windshields that fit the stock mount can be tilted by adding spacers. I think Rifle claims that you can change the rake by 7 degrees using their bracket.

Thanks for the response. It's been clear that there are several people who apparently sit up high enough or back far enough in the saddle (like me) with their heads getting jack-hammered in an undesirable manner using any number of different windshields. If a barn door works, that's what I'll do. I'm going to borrow Harald's Cee Bailey +4T and try it out. If that's not big enough or effective enough, CalSci guarantees their windshields and will refund your money with the buyer being responsible for shipping only. I would try one of their 25" models. That's a fairly low-risk test.