4 wire vs 5 wire relay

[05fjrBluedevil]

So if the four wire relay is used , but i have a few 5 wire relays laying around that i would like to use.

What is the difference in wire them, say to aux lights and the power block etc.

Lets say that i want to have the relay tapped in to the ignition somewhere and then have the option to have a switch where if i want i can have power to the aux fuse panel with or with out the ignition.....I would place a hidden switch under the seat for that purpose and let the ignition power it other wise...

thanks

Mike

The reason i have decided to finally connect my aux. light's up correctly, I think someone actually went over to my bike this morning and turned them on.....

I am just glad someone told me....because i am almost certain that i checked them prior to walking into work and I decided that in the light rain I didn't need to bring my cover....

I only hope I really some how turned them on thinking i was turning them off.....

But had that been the case after 1.5 hours of 110 watts over draw, that battery should have been done for......

 

[Ignacio]

I think I know what you're talking about. In my drawer I have two types of 5 wire. One has two 87 poles...and in that case no difference to the 4 poll. It's just like there's an extra poll for convenience.

The other types has an "87a" and that is definitely different. The a denotes the polarity is reversed. When 87 is on 87a is off. When 87a is on 87 is off.

...of course there could be other types of relays out there.....

 

[wfooshee]

4 wire is probably just the coil and the switched circuit, a single-throw switch.

5 wire is probably the coil and a dual-throw switch. In other words, one terminal is connected when the relay is off (normally closed), another when it's on (normally open). If you don't use the normally closed terminal, it's functionally identical.

Single-throw (4 wires):

Double-throw (5 wires):

If it's got the numbers on it, then 85 and 86 are either side of the coil, 30 is the common, 87 is the normally open, and 87a (if present) is the normally closed.

Here's a good description of automotive relays, better symbols than what I used above.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

4 wire is probably just the coil and the switched circuit, a single-throw switch.
5 wire is probably the coil and a dual-throw switch. In other words, one terminal is connected when the relay is off (normally closed), another when it's on (normally open). If you don't use the normally closed terminal, it's functionally identical.

Single-throw (4 wires):

Double-throw (5 wires):

If it's got the numbers on it, then 85 and 86 are either side of the coil, 30 is the common, 87 is the normally open, and 87a (if present) is the normally closed.

Here's a good description of automotive relays, better symbols than what I used above.

thanks i am almost certain they are of the 87a flavor...

So if I have it wired to the ignition say through the horns or a parking light and 85/86 pos and ground from one of those sources and 30 from the battery after a fuse 40 or 30 depending on relays rating and 87 to the positive on my junction box when the key is on, it should complete the circuit and I would have power to the box. futhermore if I have 87a going to the positive through a fused line/ rated line connector when i contect the wires or flip the switch wether i use a rated toggle or just plug in the fuse that should give me power when ignition is off correct?

Thx Mike

 

[ionbeam]

While I was drawing Wfooshee was posting. Since I went thorugh the work, I'll post my lame picture.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

While I was drawing Wfooshee was posting. Since I went thorugh the work, I'll post my lame picture.

Okay great... between both these post replies... i think i have it!!!!! ding ding ding!

that is what I was thinking, but thought it best to double check....

Thanks Mike

 

[wfooshee]

While I was drawing Wfooshee was posting. Since I went thorugh the work, I'll post my lame picture.
I didn't draw, I stole from the web after a Google.

So if I have it wired to the ignition say through the horns or a parking light and 85/86 pos and ground from one of those sources and 30 from the battery after a fuse 40 or 30 depending on relays rating and 87 to the positive on my junction box when the key is on, it should complete the circuit and I would have power to the box. futhermore if I have 87a going to the positive through a fused line/ rated line connector when i contect the wires or flip the switch wether i use a rated toggle or just plug in the fuse that should give me power when ignition is off correct?
Thx Mike

That didn't make any sense at all, but maybe I'm reading too fast.

Use the 85/86 terminals for your switch (button, toggle, solid-state device, whatever) and the 30/87 for your item being controlled. Ground either 85 or 86, and from the other one go to a switch, and from the switch to positive on the battery (or terminal strip).

30 goes to the battery through a fuse, with the fuse as close to the battery as possible, and 87 goes to your device's positive wire. the device's ground wire goes to the chassis, or better yet, to the battery minus.

So now I will draw something:

 

[Fred W]

I'm not drawin' nothin'.

But I just want to add that you should make sure the relay coil supply voltage is fused as well as high current supply going to the contacts common. Generally this is already the case because we glom the switched 12V off the windshield retract or the running lights, but better safe than sorry.

 

[wfooshee]

I'm not drawin' nothin'.
But I just want to add that you should make sure the relay coil supply voltage is fused as well as high current supply going to the contacts common. Generally this is already the case because we glom the switched 12V off the windshield retract or the running lights, but better safe than sorry.

Correct. I have a fused terminal on my strip that supplies any switches, so I didn't think to include that, drawing it like it was for my bike.

 

[Constant Mesh]

https://relays.tycoelectronics.com/auto.asp

Click and download the pdf datasheet for the "VF4" series from the above. All the various terminal configurations are shown.

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

While I was drawing Wfooshee was posting. Since I went thorugh the work, I'll post my lame picture.
I didn't draw, I stole from the web after a Google.

So if I have it wired to the ignition say through the horns or a parking light and 85/86 pos and ground from one of those sources and 30 from the battery after a fuse 40 or 30 depending on relays rating and 87 to the positive on my junction box when the key is on, it should complete the circuit and I would have power to the box. futhermore if I have 87a going to the positive through a fused line/ rated line connector when i contect the wires or flip the switch wether i use a rated toggle or just plug in the fuse that should give me power when ignition is off correct?
Thx Mike

That didn't make any sense at all, but maybe I'm reading too fast.

Use the 85/86 terminals for your switch (button, toggle, solid-state device, whatever) and the 30/87 for your item being controlled. Ground either 85 or 86, and from the other one go to a switch, and from the switch to positive on the battery (or terminal strip).

30 goes to the battery through a fuse, with the fuse as close to the battery as possible, and 87 goes to your device's positive wire. the device's ground wire goes to the chassis, or better yet, to the battery minus.

So now I will draw something:

Thanks beleive it or not that is what was in my minds eye, when I was typing the reply to the first two replies.....

thanks... ps, i found that the switch must be bad as I went out during lunch to plug the spad connectors for the aux. lights and even with the switch off the lghts came on. So I removed the panels, pulled the wires from the switch. Road home this afternoon with out them.....

But will re wire the whole box and all my goodies.....this time i will set the lights on ignition power and hopefully have the 87a termina to use when i want to.