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GunMD

Well-known member
Joined
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Location
Twentynine Palms, CA
I work for the US Marine Corps. As some of you are aware (it's been discussed on this forum recently) the Department of Defense has been experiencing an unusually high number of motorcycle accidents and fatalities over the past few years. There are several initiatives in place to help curb these incidences and some are more effective than others. In the wake of all of the recent motorcycle accidents it seems that everyone is an expert. The email below is a direct copy of one that I received at work today from our organization's safety rep. The email was sent to my safety rep from the base safety office. It originated from a senior enlisted Marine on the East coast. I'm not sure when it was originally written. I've left the author's name out, but he is a Master Gunnery Sergeant (MGySgt, E-9).

My organization consists of just over 200 employees (both active duty Marines and DoD Civilians). Many of us ride motorcycles.

Below is the email I got, and then below that is my reply to the base safety office.

-----Original Message-----From: Lastname GS08 Firstname

Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 14:44

To: The whole damn organization

Subject: FW: LETS GET SOMETHING STARTED! (EDITED VERSION)

Importance: High

FYI

Environmental & Safety Office

-----Original Message-----

From: Lastname GS11 Firstname

Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 14:15

To: A bunch of people all over the base

Subject: FW: LETS GET SOMETHING STARTED! (EDITED VERSION)

Importance: High

This is a good read for your motorcycle riders and those thinking about purchasing a motorcycle.

R/S

Name of Safety Guy

MAGTFTC Safety Office

Twentynine Palms, CA

Visit MAGTFTC Safety Homepage at:

https://www.29palms.usmc.mil/base/safety

-----Original Message-----

From: Lastname YC2 Firstname

Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:27

To: A bunch of safety offices in the USMC

Subject: LETS GET SOMETHING STARTED! (EDITED VERSION)

Importance: High

Great read. Publish and Post.

Marines, Sailors/Leaders,

For your info.

Semper Fidelis

"I ride a bike, a Kawasaki ZX-12R. The incredible ZX-12 (a.k.a.

"12") was my graduation bike from the Kawasaki ZX-7R, a 750cc bike. It is an extremely fast bike! Believe me, I know, I knew this before I decided to purchase the bike and even more so after my first ride during the "break-in"

period. Ah! The break-in period, you know, the period where you must restrain yourself from revving the engine beyond 4000-rpms for the first 500 miles and show more restraint up to 5000 rpms up to the 1000 mile mark.

After that,.the break-in period, it's all she wrote and we often let the horses run free. Unfortunately, sometimes it's all she wrote for many of our

fellow service members. For the purpose of this email, lets refer to them what they are,...our fellow riders. Many of our fellow riders are not practicing "self- restraint" after the break-in period. That is, if they make it that far. Believe me, I know this to be true. Most riders, and I mean a lot, will obey the manufacturer's break-in period requirements to the letter.

But strangely, most don't ride to live or live to ride beyond the break-in period. Fellow riders, I inform you that there are a ton of forces out there that are just waiting for our presence to show up on the scene. I know and I've seen most of them. For the record, I have been riding a sportbike since about the Summer of 1999. I've seen many things happen,..with my own two eyes. I've seen the phantom deer cross in front of the bike (...what deer?),..the mysterious dog that came from no where that only the rider saw.

I seen riders run brand new bikes,...only to run out of road and profess that the bike's brakes didn't work,...after the bike blasts through an intersection and slams into a tree,...causing sparks to fly everywhere. This guy was lucky, he walked away with a bruised knee and broken ego. Riders, it is my strong opinion that the main reason most riders get into trouble is because of this single most factor. They TURN OFF THE SAFETY! And as many know, it doesn't matter what you are doing, when you turn off the safety, anything can and "will happen". Don't believe me,.

grab a chainsaw, put on a blindfold, rev it up and just start wailing it about cutting anything and everything. Or! Get drunk and hop into your 86 horsepower Corolla and see what happens - Don't do that,..that's nuts, but you know that already. Or! Jump into a plane and skydive with a faulty parachute,..and see what happens. You see, it doesn't matter what we are doing, because once we turn off the "safety" anything that happens is nearly

always our fault. Yes! You, the rider, is the reason why you went down in most cases. Now, at the risk of sounding pathetic, I'll be the first to say

it out loud that it's a good thing that because of your bad decision to turn

off your own personal safety switch that you caused 1)severe injury (or

death) to yourself, 2)you only damaged or destroyed your own property, or 3)you only mangled your own body and for that others get to feel sorry for your ass,...as you sit there in a pool of pity and silently run the game through your mind telling yourself what you should have done. What you should have done was maintain your safety switch. The Battalion Commander can't do

this for you,..the Sergeant Major or Company GySgt can't do this for you.

You're on your own with this one. You get to exercise 100% judgment on this one. You and only you.

That said,...and flipping the script. What you,...or we should do is simply "Do Not Turn Off Our Safety Switch". Every weapon in the Marine Corps entire arsenal has a safety switch,...and since we're a main factor in that awesome

arsenal, we too should maintain our safety switch. Riders, as I've said before, there is no reason why you too cannot be blessed with years or a lifetime of riding just as many have been and will be. I once bet a young rider that if he could find the safety switch on his bike I'd give him $20.00.

He looked and looked,..and could not find. Note that he did say, brakes,.clutch lever, engine kill switch, etc. Still, he was incorrect.

Bikes

don't come with a safety switch,.for what it's worth cars too don't have safety switches. Sure, they have tons of electronic gadgets to help keep us

safe, like airbags, ABS brakes, DSC, etc. But rest assured that there are many junk yards full of cars that have, airbags,...ABS brakes, and DSC,.it's

all just a heap of junk now. Something I have often said to many riders is that there are no "expert" riders,...except for those that have gone down and lived to tell their story. You see, I can tell quite a few bike stories, but I cannot remotely began to tell the story of having gone down. I have no experience in that area.

Well, nearly none. You see, I fell while being on the bike in slippery-wet grass in the yard. The result and lesson learned was that one can go down at

zero-mph,..even in the yard, let alone on the streets. The aftermath of that fall was,..well, grass getting lodged everywhere I could imagine and even to

this day there are times it feels like a blade of grass is still hung up in my ear. You know, a rider going down and living to tell the story is as close as one can gets to being an expert rider. At least in my book. Yes, it's ironic, but think about it. Expert riders are the only ones that can tell you about all aspects of riding. Those that haven't gone down can only tell you

about the "keeping it on two part". So, whether you are an expert rider or not, we should always remain in a "learning mode".

Ride to learn and always continue to learn to ride.

Before closing, I'll say that it took me 8+ years to decide to purchase a riding jacket. Why? It's simple because I saw that most riders going down were those cladded in riding jackets and full leathers, etc. I was afraid that I'd put too much artificial confidence in my riding if I wore a riding jacket. I don't know if those that crash and burned feel like a better rider just because they have a riding jacket on, but don't be fooled, a riding jacket will not stop legs, necks, backs from breaking no less than a rider that doesn't wear a riding jacket or leathers. You'll be just as busted up coming off your bike hitting a fire hydrant with or without a riding jacket.

This is not to say don't wear a riding jacket, what I am saying is put your faith in "riding safe" and not in the gear you have on.

That is,...if I go down, I won't get hurt because I have on a $200-dollar leather riding jacket.

Now, I can't part without leaving you with some facts. If you ride,...a bike, someone will cut you off in traffic (sooner or later),...it has happened to me and it will happen to me again. I'm expecting it to.

Note that gravel and rocks are silently waiting for us to make a right or left turn so we'll be slammed to the pavement after losing tire grip and our left

or right knee will be smashed like a grape. Tree leaves on the pavement in the Fall are more slippery than the plain wet street and they too will take some of us down only be stirred by our tail wind and laugh at us. A bug, or

Worst,...a bee or wasp, will fly into our helmet just before we close the visor. If you're lucky, you won't get a powerful sting in the neck. I wasn't lucky the first time it happened to me and the wasp got away.

Riders, what I'm simply trying to say is there are a ton of dangers on the road already waiting for us to show up on the scene, so why contribute poor judgment to the mix. Also, at speeds of 60, 70 80mph in a 35mph zone (and Something just happen to go wrong) will cause grave injury just at it will at 100, 120, or 160mph in a 70mph zone. Getting killed always results in a speed of "0" (ZERO) miles-per-hour,...no mater who is at fault. So again, lets get something started with this email and all riders ride to live and live to ride. Also, if you find yourself constantly changing lanes,...and sometimes

doing the dirty evil of changing 2-3 lanes at a time just to get around 1 car,...or maybe 2-3 cars, my fellow rider, you are riding wrong.

You are casting a bad image on Other sportbike riders. You are riding dirty!

You are riding in such a fashion that will only get you to your next destination just so that you can say to someone,. "Man! I made it here in 25

minutes". Yeah, you made it in 25 minutes,...this time! But how responsible of a rider were you in doing so? Most folks that want a bike are thrilled just to sit on one at the dealership. However, somewhere between yearning for a bike and the first 2000 miles, some lose the "joy" of simply riding and replace it with ill responsibility.

That said, as I've probably said enough already, whether you ride or not, I ask all in receipt of this email to pass it on to a "rider" and for all to keep it going,..it's bound to hit home somewhere."

Sincerely,

Master Gunnery LASTNAME,.praying to be a rider for life!

Senior Enlisted Advisor, DC/I&L

Saved Round: After having been a rider for some 8+ years, even to this day I

still get goose-bumps when I start the engine on the big 12,.I just say a prayer and enjoy the ride,.hoping to ride to live and live to ride - again!

If you have read this far,..."SMILE" and enjoy the riding season,...this year and years to come!

And now for my reply:

Mr. LASTNAME,I am a motorcycle owner and rider and I applaud all members of the safety community for their continued efforts to keep our riders (both active duty and

civilians) safe while operating motorcycles. While I'm sure that the author of this motorcycle safety commentary had the best of intentions, I'd like to address a couple of areas that are of particular concern to me.

1. The author stated the following:

"Something I have often said to many riders is that there are no "expert" riders,...except for those that have gone down and lived to tell their story."

And;

"Those that haven't gone down can only tell you about the "keeping it on two part"."

I find it appalling that anyone would equate crashing with learning. In using this analogy the author is trivializing the value of training to prevent such incidents and insinuating that the only way to learn crash avoidance is to actually crash. I prefer to think that with ongoing training, reading, practice, and vigilance we can constantly strive to be better motorcycle riders. All of these things are certainly possible without the need to experience an actual crash. In my opinion, suggesting that crashing is the only way to learn how to avoid crashing is analogous to saying that being shot is the only way for Marines to learn cover and concealment techniques. In order to learn evacuation procedures in our office spaces we have fire drills rather than actual fires. The analogy that the author uses to describe what constitutes an "expert" would be very costly to the aviation and maritime communities. We simply cannot afford to crash aircraft or sink ships in order to learn how to avoid those incidents. Instead we practice how things should be done, not how they should not. No reasonable person perfects any skill by practicing how to fail at it. Motorcycling is no different. If you want to be an expert on a motorcycle then you should practice avoiding crashes, not hoping for one to occur. In response to the second quote that I sited, I only want to learn the "keeping it on two part", not the crashing part.

2. The author also stated this:

"I don't know if those that crash and burned feel like a better rider just because they have a riding jacket on, but don't be fooled, a riding jacket will not stop legs, necks, backs from breaking no less than a rider that doesn't wear a riding jacket or leathers. You'll be just as busted up coming off your bike hitting a fire hydrant with or without a riding jacket. This is not to say don't wear a riding jacket, what I am saying is put your faith in "riding safe" and not in the gear you have on. "

Wow! I simply cannot believe that the author would suggest that having "faith" in your abilities is more important than wearing proper personal protective equipment. I'm absolutely shocked that the author could honestly believe that "You'll be just as busted up coming off your bike hitting a fire hydrant with or without a riding jacket." Surely the author isn't so naive as to believe that today's advanced motorcycle jackets, pants, boots, gloves, and helmets are of no value to someone involved in a motorcycle crash. I certainly don't believe that the author's statement has any value to our riders. I would certainly like to see all motorcycle riders wear PPE every time they get on their motorcycles. I think that the author's insistence that wearing a jacket will provide no additional protection to a motorcyclist involved in an accident is simply irresponsible at best, and negligent at worst.

Having said all of that, please continue your efforts to inform motorcyclists and encourage them to ride safely.

Like I say, ATGATT (All The Gear, All The Time).

R/S

Scott Wright
 
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So have they canceled your government contract yet? :p

Sadly I'm not at all surprised by this email. One of my coworkers (who happened to be a Marine) has an R6 and has this type of mentality. He rides with a helmet all the time, but feels a jacket or leathers is mostly for looks. I've offered to give him an old leather jacket I have that umm.. no longer fits, but it wouldn't match his blingy R6 so he's turned it down.

He talks about some of the guys he rides with and their badass setups. Well, they're all basically stunters or modern day cafe racers who are more concerned about looking good than riding well.

I think this email caused alot of 'real' riders to roll their eyes and hit the delete button. Unfortunately I also think this email gave alot of non riders the wrong view. Hopefully they actually read your email and realize that perhaps this isn't the best message to be sending out...

 
Good fucking mother god.

After reading this self-appointed experts "treatise" I can't even swear straight.

And the Gov't wonders why their riding folk are suffering.

More when I get my mind out of the blender.

GZ

PS: Gun, excellent reply!

 
Y'know the grunts read it and then rolled their eyes as they hit "delete". I don't know that his email is the way to reach those who need the information. These are the same guys who don't think a track day is a necessary part of learning skills (besides, they'd need to buy leathers and wear them).

I thought the gunny had some good insights, but how does one mentor aggressive sport bikers on NOT twisting the right wrist thingy? Kind of like telling some FJR owners they don't NEED to twist the wrist.......

 
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"I'll say that it took me 8+ years to decide to purchase a riding jacket."

That pretty much sums up the mentality of the author to me. Kudos to him to suggest safety first, but a lot of it is just waffle.

Maybe sending him a link to The Sander Test would have been beneficial too, specifically highlighting the section under "The Finanaces of Crashing". Or perhaps the Road Rash Queen. Both adequately describe the effects of not wearing gear in situations where it's not your fault.

Note that under The Sander Test, the information is filed under "Beginner", not "intermediate" or "expert".

EDIT: I don't know about you lot, but I have a lot of friends who will look at an email like that, see that it goes for more than a page and hit delete. Short and sweet is the winner.

 
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Y'know the grunts read it and then rolled their eyes as they hit "delete". I don't know that his email is the way to reach those who need the information. These are the same guys who don't think a track day is a necessary part of learning skills (besides, they'd need to buy leathers and wear them).I thought the gunny had some good insights, but how does one mentor aggressive sport bikers on NOT twisting the right wrist thingy? Kind of like telling some FJR owners they don't NEED to twist the wrist.......
I think you're right. They don't buy open class sport bikes for great gas mileage...they buy them cuz they're fast as hell.

My concern is that some asshat is out there essentially telling these young riders that the gear isn't all that important because they're toast anyway. I think you, Mike, understand as well as (or better than) most of us that the gear can and does make the difference. It's frustrating to see it all go down. Tons of talk about safety and then one email like this can just solidify the misconception that some of these young guys already have. The message this E-9 is sending is that gear is of no added value. Disgusts me.

 
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Glad you tried to set the record straight. The premise of being safety minded while riding the bike isn't a bad premise, surely a marine should give some value to working hard to be prepared and having proper equipment. Thanks for pointing them in the right direction.

 
Good reply Gunny. Can't say as I would have worded it so nicely.

<rant>You reading my mind MM2? That is EXACTLY what I would have done. This guy's email is just another long-winded, uninformed rant. Last I checked (granted, over 8 years ago), Safety Centers and personnel dealt with hard, cold facts. Please tell me that no one is actually giving credence to this load of shiite?</rant>

 
You know, a rider going down and living to tell the story is as close as one can gets to being an expert rider. At least in my book. Yes, it's ironic, but think about it. Expert riders are the only ones that can tell you about all aspects of riding.
I guess I should put the pen to the paper and get that book written. It is my responsibility since I am an expert rider and all. :blink:

 
You know, a rider going down and living to tell the story is as close as one can gets to being an expert rider. At least in my book. Yes, it's ironic, but think about it. Expert riders are the only ones that can tell you about all aspects of riding.
I guess I should put the pen to the paper and get that book written. It is my responsibility since I am an expert rider and all. :blink:
Yep. You'll have publishers knocking down your door in no time!

That part just baffles me. How could he even say that? Amazing.

 
You know, a rider going down and living to tell the story is as close as one can gets to being an expert rider. At least in my book. Yes, it's ironic, but think about it. Expert riders are the only ones that can tell you about all aspects of riding.
I guess I should put the pen to the paper and get that book written. It is my responsibility since I am an expert rider and all. :blink:
Yep. You'll have publishers knocking down your door in no time!

That part just baffles me. How could he even say that? Amazing.
It is a mystery. The term "Toid" comes to mind. As in "F**ktoid."

However, the crashes did grant me some things:

Perspective. I now know what paramedics look like from the perspective of the ground. You can see up their nose.

 
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Hey Scab I can write your forward.<G>

The long winded-ness reminded me of those websites trying to sell you something you absolutely don't need.

They go on and on to the break of dawn ( wave your hands in the air, wave'm like you just don't care ) saying absolutely nothing. And believe it or not, drumming a stupid message long enough works on a larger percentage of the population than you'd like to admit.

( no bush jokes i promise )

I don't know what E-9 means, but it sounds like this moron has a large pulpit, and whoever was in a position to do something about this has every responsibility to do so. I applaud GunMD for his efforts thus far.

I guess I'm an experienced "Crasher", so I vow in any way to help those that I can. This kind of thinking has to be quashed ASAP, or some naive 19 year old will get hurt or die. Misinformation doesn't just effect voter turnout, it kills people everyday.

GZ

 
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GunMD, I am glad you did take the time to read it and attempt to set him straight. I can show him my gear from a 140 mph low side on the race track that I walked away from with just a few minor bumps and bruises. With his mentality, he would have begged them to shoot him on the spot from all the road rash he would have gotten.

I guess the only good part is that it is such a long rant the gen-X kids can't pay enough attention long enough to read it.

 
Probably the ONLY way they are going to get the military motorcyclists to wear gear is to require it. More equipment than is now considered appropriate attire.... If they "must" wear it to ride on base, hopefully some of them will acquire it as a habit when riding elsewhere.

My concern is that some asshat is out there essentially telling these young riders that the gear isn't all that important because they're toast anyway.
The real fight isn't with this man. He is obviously part of the problem, using PC terminology to misinform those who need a clear and concise message to be prepared, Not exactly what one would hope or expect from a "safety" person (Some of us must conform to OSHA and IMSHA standards, and there is NO "fudge room".).

Good for you for fighting the fight. Don't quit! Surely there are others who might have a more open ear. Last year I made a delivery to an Air Force Sgt. non-com who had gone down, at speed, on his Gixxer. After 3 months, his hands were still raw where the pavement had rubbed through his armord gloves, and his elbow at the point his textile jacket burned through. His prognosis was another 3 months before returning to "light duty". I'll bet the lost time was particularly well received by his Division (Flight?) Officer, the C.O. and his "team mates" who had to account for and carry the load during his recovery.

I think I've heard someone compare being dressed properly for riding as the same preparation for going into battle dressed with personal armor. This might be a better way to influence the "powers that be" concerning ATGATT. Survival language is something they understand and could be stated in such a way as to be as "cool" as doing one's part as a profession.

Just an idea.

 
Oh you guys are all a bunch of fucktards... didnt you read what he was saying? You have to use your saftey switch! **** why didnt i think of that. :dribble

 
Wow, it is not suprising really to see this attitude, but somewhat suprising coming from an E9. There must be a manual somewhere for riding proceedures in the military as there are military riders who are assigned to that means. ANd I'll bet you they are not what was laid out in that mail!

GunMD you did good in your response and I can tell you I've learned more here about riding and what gear to wear while doing so than any other place be it from the board or just riding and talking with the members. It is sad though that if you go to any town you see 95% of bikers on any brand wearing no more protective gear other than the helmet. Especially in the warmer months. Good thread. PM. <>< ;) Long live ATGATT.

 
Painman, you bring up a great point.

I am, and have been on a great many number of boards/ forums.

THIS Forum is without a doubt, the most honest, informed forum I've ever seen.

Crashers, riders extraordinaire, you name it. NO ONE is faster to call Bull Shit than this Forum.

So this is not an opportunity to gloat, but rather a chance to reflect on our imperfect selves and affect tangible change where we can.

Be not the expert, but the ACTUALLY experienced ( crash or not ) rider with wisdom to impart.

Do so with humility and all we can ask of our young brethren ( and sisters! ) is to listen with our concern as guide. Not that we are right beyond question, right as a means of age or prosperity, but simply concerned as informed by experience.

After this, after we have tried to be good stewards, we can only lead by example, and not by treatise.

Ride often, ride well.

GZ

 
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