A question to any of the MSF instructors out there

[jet mechanic]

Last week on my way home from work i received a performance award from the local sheriffs dept.

I was going down a 4 lane, divided hwy and got hit (radar wise) going 76 mph in a 55 mph, I didn't deny it to the officer, but here's why...

Sitting at a light before the incident i was about # 10 in the right lane. Approx 3 miles down the road there was a right hand exit and the bulk of the cages turned off, leaving me now #2 in the right lane. we were traveling about 60 to 64 mp h's in the right lane, traffic in the left lane was going slightly faster and there was a steady line passing by. Untill...

Right before reaching the crest of a small hill, two cars were passing me on the left. The lead car was just forward of the nose of the bike when i saw brake lights coming on and the car started to come into my lane. Do you remember when you only have seconds to react??

I had been watching the traffic around me and knew i couldn't slow down because the car behind me was too close and that lead car was coming at me from an angle. The shoulder to the right was the usual debris field strewn with tire-gators and such and was pretty narrow. So...

I moved slightly more to the right and accelerated forward. But now i was way too close to the car in front of me. I saw in the mirror that i was now forward of the lead car, who was straddling both lanes, so I went ahead and slid into the left lane. I looked forward down the road and guess who was sitting in the median?? You probably guessed right. Busted!

That lead car must have seen the two sheriffs cars or had a detector going off and was doing the typical radar avoidance maneuver.

I didn't really think i hit 76 that fast, but I was still in 4Th since traffic was relatively slow, and just didn't realize how fast i had accelerated. I knew i was busted so i just went ahead and pulled over to the break down lane when i saw a clear spot further down the road.

The first sheriff must not have expected me to pull over right away because he flew by me in the left lane. The second sheriff saw me and pulled into the right lane and stopped behind me. The lead sheriff did a u turn down the road and came back facing me.

He was pretty good about it. He asked what happened and why I was going so fast. I explained as best as i could but it was just too soon after the incident to really explain it clearly. But i did explain to him that i honestly thought i was going to be hit by that lead car. My record was clean, my last speeding ticket has to be about 20 years ago, but he had to give me a ticket since i was going 20 over the limit. Normally, he said, I could have lost my license on the spot for 20 over.

So my question to all you MSF instructors out there or anybody else who wants to comment, what could i have done differently if you think I could have? Should I have chanced the garbage strewn break down lane? Did i do the right maneuver?

Don't be afraid to call me a stupid *** and tell me i did everything wrong!

Oh yeah, I've already hired a traffic court lawyer to help me out come the court date.

Kevin

 

[DELETE-PLEASE]

Sucks you got a ticket. And I'm no MSF coach. But you avoided an accident. I'll take the ticket.

Alexi

PS - I've been in similar situations. If you get into an accident trying to AVOID getting hit by another car, it goes against your record and insurance. Sucks. It seems like if I'm in a cage, and someone is doing something illegal and is about to hit me, I'd almost rather take the hit than swerve and risk losing control/injuring myself. But on a bike?! No way. I'll avoid it.

 

[Bungie]

**** happens.

I got a ticket about 20 years ago for saving my *** as well. I was approaching a set of lights in the express lane with a car to my right up ahead about 50 feet. Their was a car attempting to make a left hand turn. I knew he (left turner) was impatient because he turned his wheels to make the turn in front of us, but at the last moment he stopped because he saw the oncoming car. I accelerated to just ahead of vehicle on my right, using him has a blocker.

Wouldn't you know it, their was a cop in the lot across the road, who was watching his radar and not the situation. I explained, politely, what and why and it fell on deaf ears. He knocked the ticket down from 20 over to 10 over.

I didn't fight it, thinking the fine I paid was worth staying alive. I just asked myself a simple question. "Would you have done anything differently had you had known the cop was there?". My answer, No. **** happens.

 

[Big Sky]

I'd go to court and plead with the judge for leniency as no one could expect you to risk death by staying within the speed limit. Hell, maybe the judge rides. He'd understand and set ya free. Prepare a careful explanation and I'd even prepare a graphic representation of who was where and how it all happened. You might also talk about the great sense of vulnerability you can experience (and actually have) on a bike, past avoidance incidents from your personal history and how survival in these instances simply must trump all other considerations. Cite any training you have or at least your (vast?) personal riding experience and good safety and traffic record. Tell the judge you know of no other way to have saved your hide, and ask him if he could suggest one "for next time." I'd explain that you realize the officer was just doing his job and most PO's are excellent professionals, but that sometimes mitigating factors simply must be taken into account. Plead for mercy!

Last week in Montana a young teen boy was hunting elk. When he turned to take up a new position, he was face-to-face with a mature lion. The cat crouched and tensed up getting ready to spring. The smart young man shot it four times. When fish and game was called, they looked at the situation and determined the boy was justified in killing the lion, even though he had no license, etc. Technically he had broken the law, but there is a self-defense defense. Seems the same sort of deal to me. It would all depend on the judge.

 

[HotRodZilla]

In my experience, if you take that story to the judge, you will probably walk away with a very sweet deal. That really depends on the judge, your driving record, your attitude, your ability to tell a complete story, and whether or not the judge believes you. I woulda saved my money and not hired an attorney, but since you have him, get his advice and follow it.

As far as getting out of the ticket in the first place...Couldn't tell you since I wasn't there. Maybe that cop saw something different than what you perceived.

 

[jet mechanic]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

I feel better that I made the right choice for the situation. and i will be going up before the judge with the same explanation.

The officer who wrote the ticket was a rider, but because there were 2 patrol cars i kinda felt he had no choice but to do what he did.

We'll see what happens!!

Kevin

 

[Toecutter]

We'll see what happens!!

Keep us posted and good luck! I speed constantly, to stay clear of the cagers and, so far, my skilz and radar detector have kept my driving record clean.

-knocks on wood....

 

[stellarsteve]

Going to work one day I was in the left lane of three lanes. Traffic was flying about 85 with cars weaving in and out of traffic. Like you there was a car ahead of me and one right on my ***. Young dud in the middle lane decides that my spot was the one he wanted and started to come over. Even though I hit the highway blasters for a good long blast he is still coming. I am right on the shoulder and he is still coming. So I gave him the boot. Right in his door. That did the trick. He jumps, looking right at me and returns to the middle lane. As soon as there is a gap I kick it up to 120 and get out of there to clear space.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

I would say not to expect anything except having to pay the fine and court costs. The judge will know that you were in a 55 mph zone. As soon as you say "we were traveling about 60 to 64 mp h's" you have admitted guilt and will have lost your case.

I am not an MSF instructor. I did take the class not all that long ago. We talked about this sort of situation in the class. The instructors were emphatic that you should not speed, should keep at least a 2-3 second buffer between you and the car in front of you. If a car gets too close behind, you should slow down and let them pass. If they will not pass consider pulling off to the shoulder when safe to make them pass then continue on when safe.

I would have probably done the exact same thing you did. Like the others I would chalk it up to paying to save my ***, and would do it again if put in the same situation.

 

[RiderCoach Lar]

Great post, jet mechanic. One of my favorite parts of teaching the BRC is discussing Common Riding Situations and the interactive video that accompanies that section. The students watch several short video clips (from a riders point of view) and they must decide how to react to potentially dangerous riding situations.

Let me first say that I would get pics ASAP of the shoulder so you can show a judge why, despite being a competent, cautious rider and purposely riding in the right/slow lane to give yourself an escape route, the debris prohibited you from using that escape route and your brief acceleration was really your ONLY way to avoid a collision with the slowing, inattentive driver encroaching from your left and that you immediately slowed after the maneuver (You might not not want to volunteer the fact that you were traveling in excess of 60mph...in fourth gear)

It sounds like you had a reasonable gap between yourself and the car ahead. That's obviously good. It also sounds like you had a vehicle following too close behind. That was bad. I'm going to say that you were likely also in the blind spot of the car to the left (the one who violated your space); also bad. Even though you were in the right lane, presumably the "slow lane", and theoretically had an escape route (right shoulder), you were exceeding the posted speed limit and, to make matters worse, you were speeding up a hill and didn't have clear sight lines over the crest (you can probably tell where I'm going with this ).

Under the circumstances, it would appear that you chose one of the only options you left yourself. Doesn't make you a "stupid ***". We've all found ourselves in less-than-ideal situations with no time to think about how to react. That's why developing solid riding HABITS is so freakin' important. Should you find yourself in a situation where you have to react without the luxury of thinking, you tend to rely on habits; hopefully they're good ones. Of course, planning ahead in order to completely avoid those situations is ideal, but that's much easier said than done.

Could you have swerved around the right of the encroaching car without accelerating to 76? Could you have rolled off the throttle to allow him to merge ahead of you without having the guy behind you drive up your ***? Could you have merged onto the shoulder and safely slowed while avoiding the debris?....Who knows? I think the more important point here is to think about what you might want to consider doing in order to avoid the situation in the future. If I can over-simplify, start by slowing down, especially in traffic that heavy and with limited sight lines.

That's my $.02

 

[oldryder]

1. 1st priority ALWAYS has to be to protect yourself. GOing into a rubble strewn shoulder would've been a wrong move. The superior braking and acceleration of a bike are two of your most effective survival tools when added to your situational awareness that had you recognizing the threat before you were out of options..

1a. you might mention that as a defensive rider you always mnaintain spacing and that some drivers assume that space is there for them to make agressive moves.

2. +1 on going to court with a graphical representation. I did this once years ago to prove the cop could not have observed me doing what he said I did from where he was parked and the judge let me off.

3. I wouldn't say I was going "64"; just "riding with traffic". this avoids the "you're already guilty" charge.

Good Luck.

 

[Theevolone]

MSF Instructor Here:

You've gotta ride your ride and don't second guess what you did -- you didn't get hurt and that's what counts
Space cushion is obvious, but we all get jammed in traffic.

Not mentioned, yet very effective, is use hand signals when slowing down -- auto drivers see the motion and recognize a person is on the machine faster than a blinker, it makes you human. They slow down.

I think the other MSF guy mentioned the speed thing -- avoid getting sucked into increasing speed when in a heavy traffic situation, slow and wave folks on if they are on your butt.

I use the highway patrol weave when slowing on a long straight, staying in my lane but moving within the boundaries as I decelerate. This is particularly helpful on long mind-numbing straights when cars get in auto=pilot mode and you don't want them waking up to brake when 10 feet from your bike. Linear motion is not so detectable, but lateral motion within the lane is. (It looks kind of like you're sliding around from the rear, or making a point -- pick your explanation: but it works)

A tailight modulator is helpful for this, as is a manual modulation, of on/off the brakes.

But accleration and maneuverability are the two key strengths of a motorcycle. If you need it use it.

Oh, also I keep in my head fresh at all times the possible explanation I might give for speeding, having traffic conditions foremost in my mind. It's that first 30 seconds of contact with an officer when the decision to ticket or not is often made. So give them information that explains why you might have exceeeded the limt. Keep it real. Don't try to BS when there is no excuse. They are human beings too and listen to reason if such is provided.

 

[ShawnKing]

Don't be afraid to call me a stupid *** and tell me i did everything wrong!

Not at all. The only thing I saw in your post that raised even the tiniest red flag was the line, "I had been watching the traffic around me and knew i couldn't slow down because the car behind me was too close..." If you knew he was too close, could you have done something *before* the incident started to give yourself more room from the guy behind? Obviously, I don't know the exact situation but what if you had taken action regarding the tailgater earlier - would that have made any difference?

Good luck in court.

 

[old&slow]

Let's see ,,

You avoided a crash ,,, You are safe and sound ,, No road rash ,, No broken bones,,

No hospital time ,, No one else was injured ,,the bike wasn't damaged or destroyed ,,,

You got a ticket...

I use to be a MSF instructor ,,, I'm not sure what that has to do with it...

I'd pay the ticket and not even worry about it ,,,

,,,,, ticket -vs- injury ,,,,I'd say it was a good trade......

Glad you are OK........

 

[jet mechanic]

Thanks again for everybody's comments.

I will definitely take a picture of the debris field that was the shoulder and bring it to court with me.

One thing that I didn't mentioned was that where the two sheriffs were parked, at the crest of the hill, was the boundary between 2 counties. I probably pass them once or twice every other week during my commute and know they park there.

I did speed to get out of the situation, and got a ticket for it. If i end up having to pay for my decision I can live with it.

But there's also no reason why I shouldn't try to fight it to the best of my ability! So long as I keep my cool and present a good defense!

Kevin

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I use to be a MSF instructor ,,, I'm not sure what that has to do with it...

I think much of the public (for some reason?) thinks that MSF Instructors know all about all the rules & regs. for motor vehicle (motorcycle) operation.

Although they might know a little more than the average Joe about those things, it's really not their job. They teach folks how to ride and address safety concerns -- and they're very good at it.

A state trooper/ highway patrol (or someone in their office) is a good source for rules & regs.

Interacting with other road users (traffic) is a learned skill. Another option to keep in mind may be to be selective in the routes you choose to ride and maybe avoid certain heavily traffic'd arteries at certain times?