ABS Broken - Are all units the same?

[xp@]

Hi,

I tried to search but "ABS" is not allowed in the search (admin??).

Anyway after a butt puckering moment (rear wheel locked) on the way to work this morning I have decided to get my ABS unit sorted.

I understand this is a black box and can't be fixed?

The ABS light is not lit up and ABS is not activating

If I am buying second hand - can I get a later model unit? if so which years are the same as the 2003 model (currently on EBay are pumps from 2006 & 2008)?

Cheers

 

[dudeckp]

Try using google to search this site for three letter keywords:

https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site%3Afjrforum.com+abs+control+OR+unit

 

[HotRodZilla]

2003s have ABS?? Are 2003s in NZ the same as US 2004s? Either way, it seems the guilty GenI ABS block is pretty readily available on eBay.

Good luck.

 

[Ignacio]

Anyway after a butt puckering moment (rear wheel locked) on the way to work this morning I have decided to get my ABS unit sorted. I understand this is a black box and can't be fixed?

ABS as in the mechanical block with actuators that pulse the brakes, ABS the part of the brain the engine computer, ABS one of the parts like the front or rear sensor, or ABS as in one of the other components. ABS is a system and not specifically one part. What part is broken? If you don't know, don't have the expertise to sort out a fairly complex system, and/or don't have the service manual...it might be a job for the dealer. Brakes are critical safety items.

Generally speaking most of the ABS components for '04 to '05 North American (probably '03 to '05 World) are probably interchangeable. Various '06 to '08 parts may be as well since they use the same rims. '08 and later....probably not. Based on my experience compiling The List. However, if you want specific parts you would probably need to look at the microfiche for each year.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Grab a manual and perform the ABS ECU test functions, you'll also need the Yamaha test coupler or short the wires.

Quite a detailed procedure.

Does the ABS light come on running the bike up on the center stand ?

Also there are 2 types of ABS solenoid units, linked and unlinked brakes, I think ???

 

[Chiefblueman]

Here's a great little tutorial on testing ABS provided by our very own, almost famous, Ionbeam.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=136000&st=0&p=834610&&do=findComment&comment=834610

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Is a common problem for the 03-05 ABS.I have read a looot of the same problem from many 03-05 ABS fjr riders...Mama Yamaha sells the ABS unit for the 03-05 with a new part number now..They knows the problem,as they knows the problem for the windshield motor unit for the 01-05 and they sells the new part number..BUT..The bad thing here is that it don't show you that is something going wrong with the ABS unit,something very dangerous!Because you think that the ABS is activated but it not!Mama Yamaha should to stay behind this very serious problem with a recall,but she has close her ears...The problem is in the unit in the solenoid valve,she burns the coil and it stuck in the close position..The second bad thing is that it can't repaired and it cost a looooot!!!About $1000-1400......

https://www.partzilla.com/parts/detail/yamaha/YP-5VS-85930-09-00.html

 

[lnewlf]

You might take it on a dirt road at @ 20mph and lock the rear repeatedly...mayhaps the pump is stuck due to lack of use and might free up...worth a try.. [don't forget to unlock when it starts go sideways]

 

[ionbeam]

You might take it on a dirt road at @ 20mph and lock the rear repeatedly...mayhaps the pump is stuck due to lack of use and might free up...worth a try.. [don't forget to unlock when it starts go sideways]

Or jumper the ABS test connector and actuate the pump as often as you like from the convenience of your driveway without the dust, dirt and risk. The people that have tried both methods have had a success rate of 0%.

 

[TomInPA]

It's funny that only one NHTSA complaint has been submitted on the 2005 ABS system, and none for 2004. ABS systems are indeed critical safety equipment and if owners that have experienced this failure do not report it, the problem does not exist as far as Yamaha and NHTSA are concerned. Seriously, one complaint on a 10 year old model is an anomaly. If you have have a failed ABS, report it, especially if it was contributory to an accident.

I know we talk about this on the forums, but frankly the problem is rare, no common. It happens to so few bikes that only one formal complaint has ever been filed. If you disagree, do something about it besides posting here. Filing a complaint takes as long as writing a post.

 

[Fred W]

Yeah, maybe.

I'm thinking that this phenomenon is happening at an increasing frequency as these bikes begin to age, but we here on the FJRforum may not be experiencing it proportionally.

Why is that, you ask? Because the nut jobs that hang around this asylum tend to be anal retentive about all maintenance items related to their FJR pride and joy. I'm willing to wager that this maintenance frenzy is not quite so prevalent in the ROW (Rest Of the World).

I've got one of these to look at sitting in my garage right now. A friend of our forum friend bbdig recently bought an '04 with only 10k miles on the clock. Everything about that bike is checking out just fine except... you guessed it: the ABS is not ABSing. Took it out foir a quick test drive the other day and the rear wheel locked up quicker than you could say: Oh shit!

Planning to dig in and do whatever can be done tomorrow, flush the hydraulic fluids, exercise the ABS pump, whack that hydraulic block with a BFH... but I'm not expecting much in the way of positive results. Past history says, when the ABS Hydraulic Block valves start jamming up, it's all over but the crying. Time to spend the significant dosh for a new ABS Hydraulic block. I should start looking on FleaBay now.

Maybe I'll be the luckiest guy ever... but that has not been my past history.

 

[Constant Mesh]

Past history -- no, no, no!

History -- the study of past events.

 

[Donal]

Yeah, maybe.
I'm thinking that this phenomenon is happening at an increasing frequency as these bikes begin to age, but we here on the FJRforum may not be experiencing it proportionally.

Why is that, you ask? Because the nut jobs that hang around this asylum tend to be anal retentive about all maintenance items related to their FJR pride and joy. I'm willing to wager that this maintenance frenzy is not quite so prevalent in the ROW (Rest Of the World).

I've got one of these to look at sitting in my garage right now. A friend of our forum friend bbdig recently bought an '04 with only 10k miles on the clock. Everything about that bike is checking out just fine except... you guessed it: the ABS is not ABSing. Took it out foir a quick test drive the other day and the rear wheel locked up quicker than you could say: Oh shit!

Planning to dig in and do whatever can be done tomorrow, flush the hydraulic fluids, exercise the ABS pump, whack that hydraulic block with a BFH... but I'm not expecting much in the way of positive results. Past history says, when the ABS Hydraulic Block valves start jamming up, it's all over but the crying. Time to spend the significant dosh for a new ABS Hydraulic block. I should start looking on FleaBay now.

Maybe I'll be the luckiest guy ever... but that has not been my past history.

Just before you that thing too hard with a BFH it might be worth trying to establish if all the solenoids are intact.

I know it will be difficult without a schematic but........... Mihalis seemed confident that coils were burning out, not sure how he 'knows' this but it would be nice to know.

Presumably if you can figure out how to energise each solenoid in turn you should be able to hear/feel the shuttle valves clicking, just a guess but that's all I have.........

 

[RossKean]

AFTER all else fails (including the BFH), it might be interesting to try flushing the block with a fairly polar solvent such as isopropyl alcohol while "exercising" the solenoids. Brake fluid is polar (water soluble) so I would choose IPA rather than something like kerosene. I have NO idea if the IPA would damage seals or other bits but with an already dead unit, there wouldn't be much danger of ruining it. It would take multiple flushes of brake fluid afterward to ensure complete purging of the solvent. Any residual would boil at a pretty low temperature resulting in rapid brake fade once the fluid got hot. I would be interested in seeing whether there is evidence of electrical failure (solenoids), mechanical damage or if the unit is simply gummed up. Maybe a current measurement while activating could tell you something? i.e. Is juice flowing or not.

 

[ionbeam]

The ABS unit that I have which I'm ~40% through doing a failure analysis has had the hammer treatment to no avail. It was thoroughly tenderized judging from all the dents on all sides.

Fred can take an ohm meter to the solenoids and determine their health PDQ. A current meter could also provide some good info on the health of the solenoids if he wants to voltage to switch them.

Ross, I never considered using India Pale Ale (IPA) as a solvent. I'm pretty sure Fred couldn't bring himself to waste any IPA no matter how good the electromechanical cause. Since the metering block is already FUBAR, there is no reason not to use a high quality penetrating oil/fluid in the passages to see if that can get things to move. I have seen the following test for years, I read it even before the internet

I suspect the test to be a tad better than Urban Legend status.

In a slightly scientific test bolts were chemically induced to 'rust' then break-free torque was measured.

Penetrating oil ............. Average load
None .............................. 516 pounds
WD-40 ....................... ... 238 pounds
PB Blaster ..................... 214 pounds
Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds
Kano Kroil ..................... 106 pounds
ATF-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix is a 50/50 blend of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. The home made blend was better than any commercial product in this ONE particular test.

 

[RossKean]

I was suggesting the isopropanol because it is fully miscible with water (as is brake fluid) and is typically less aggressive than acetone (although still a pretty good solvent). I have no idea what non-metallic bits the fluid might encounter but acetone often does bad stuff to many rubbers and plastic polymers - anything from swelling to outright dissolution. If the fluid path is all metal, the ATF-Acetone mix should be safe. I would stay away from relatively non-polar oils and fluids unless a pre-test shows they are miscible with brake fluid. 100% flushing will be difficult or impossible if the material doesn't mix with the fluid.

 

[Fred W]

One problem with any of these (potentially destructive) methods of attempting to revivify the ABS pump is that it will need to continue to (non) function as a braking system until the owner (or I) come up with a suitable fully functioning replacement.

After that, then we can try pretty much anything to get more data on what is happening with these units. Dissection, which would likely be the most invasive and destructive procedure, may be what it takes to really find out the root causes.

Irregardless of past history...

(my spell checker didn't even blink at that one)

 

[08FJR4ME]

In a slightly scientific test bolts were chemically induced to 'rust' then break-free torque was measured.
Penetrating oil ............. Average load

None .............................. 516 pounds

WD-40 ....................... ... 238 pounds

PB Blaster ..................... 214 pounds

Liquid Wrench ............... 127 pounds

Kano Kroil ..................... 106 pounds

ATF-Acetone mix...............53 pounds

The ATF-Acetone mix is a 50/50 blend of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. The home made blend was better than any commercial product in this ONE particular test.

That right there is information you can't get anywhere else. Cheap yankee inginuity. I am going to mix up a batch in a well sealed container.

 

[Mihalis fjr]

Yeah, maybe.
I'm thinking that this phenomenon is happening at an increasing frequency as these bikes begin to age, but we here on the FJRforum may not be experiencing it proportionally.

Why is that, you ask? Because the nut jobs that hang around this asylum tend to be anal retentive about all maintenance items related to their FJR pride and joy. I'm willing to wager that this maintenance frenzy is not quite so prevalent in the ROW (Rest Of the World).

I've got one of these to look at sitting in my garage right now. A friend of our forum friend bbdig recently bought an '04 with only 10k miles on the clock. Everything about that bike is checking out just fine except... you guessed it: the ABS is not ABSing. Took it out foir a quick test drive the other day and the rear wheel locked up quicker than you could say: Oh shit!

Planning to dig in and do whatever can be done tomorrow, flush the hydraulic fluids, exercise the ABS pump, whack that hydraulic block with a BFH... but I'm not expecting much in the way of positive results. Past history says, when the ABS Hydraulic Block valves start jamming up, it's all over but the crying. Time to spend the significant dosh for a new ABS Hydraulic block. I should start looking on FleaBay now.

Maybe I'll be the luckiest guy ever... but that has not been my past history.

Just before you that thing too hard with a BFH it might be worth trying to establish if all the solenoids are intact.

I know it will be difficult without a schematic but........... Mihalis seemed confident that coils were burning out, not sure how he 'knows' this but it would be nice to know.

Presumably if you can figure out how to energise each solenoid in turn you should be able to hear/feel the shuttle valves clicking, just a guess but that's all I have.........

Well,the chief mechanic in the central Yamaha workshop here,is my good friend.Told me that in the most ABS failure issues over of 90% for the 2003-2005 fjr the problem was a burnt coil inside there.In the 10% the problem was a stuck solenoid valve because the owners of this 10% never did a flush refill in the brake system.I don't think that he has a reason to tell me lies..