Advice for the pillion?

[zip]

I've now been riding for nearly 4,000 miles. Still haven't taken a passenger aboard, but will this spring. My wife has finally expressed interest (and lost some weight, so the two of us, with a total gross of about 380, will fit easier!)

What kind of guidance do you have for me as the pilot about carrying a second, and what do you typically tell your first-time passengers when taking them out?

(Y'know, my wife's increased interest might just be due to a couple of other neighborhood wives expressing interest in taking a ride with me. Hmmm.)

I took the MSF course last year and learned a lot. I'm a defensively cautious but confident rider. But the class didn't go into a lot of detail about carrying passengers.

Thanks!

Barry

 

[DE OPPRESSO LIBER]

Zip,

Can't recommend highly enough to have a good quality, comfortable back rest. It will not only provide comfort, but will also inspire a sense of security for any pillion. Things that I tell any passenger who is not familiar with riding is to RELAX. Go with the bike. Don't fight the turns, stay vertically oriented but lean WITH the bike. The natural tendency for anyone who does not feel comfortable/nervous as pillion is to fight the lean. You will have to work out what is a more comfortable riding position for the two of you. She could either wrap her arms around you or hold onto the grab rail.

After a little bit of experience with having a passenger, you'll be able to appreciate even slight position changes or movement made from the passenger. My oldest boy weighs less than 100 lbs and I can feel even the slightest shift in weight through feedback from the bike.

I'm sure there are lots of other folks here with good advice, that's just all that I can think of at the moment. No matter what, the only way you AND your wife will get more comfortable is to spend time in the saddle. And, don't forget. You're responsible for her - communicate well, ask her how she's doing often, and make sure she has the appropriate riding gear. These positive things will make her riding more enjoyable and may allow you to get more riding time in!

Good luck and be safe! Enjoy the ride.

CJ

 

[zip]

Great advice, CJ. I have the Yamaha top case and the back pad, so that should help a bit. But I found the movement issue interesting. Now glad I'll be prepared for that. Good language, too, around relaxing and going with the turns.

She's the mother of my children, and a good one. I'm definitely taking good care of her on a ride.

Thanks!

 

[Patriot]

tell her, no matter what, don't jump off the bike

seriously, an intercom system for easy conversation along the way is a big plus...

 

[ionbeam]

Do you have any type of a back rest? For the first ride remove the bags 'cause rookies bash the bags with their boots and perhaps it will make mounting easier.

There is no one right way to instruct a first time rider, I'll just make a few suggestions. Da rules:

The passenger isn't to do anything without first notifying the driver.

Set some basic signals -- like pull over NOW, stop soon, lookie here...

Tell the pillion to wait until you say you are set and ready before they get on. The same is true with getting off, the pillion has to wait for you to get set first and then give the ok before they disembark.

Show the pillion where the grab handles are, offer how they may grasp or hold on to you as necessary.

Let them know that as you shift, stop and go that their head will bob back and forth and it is ok, just try to prevent helmet to helmet bashing.

In my case I tell my pillions that if I have to brake hard for some reason that they will lean/fly forward, perhaps hard, and it is ok because I can support their upper body weight without a problem. YMMV on this.

Tell them that they do not need to put their feet down at a stop and in fact should not put their feet down at a stop.

I have my pillions maintain a neutral vertical position on the seat (in relation to the motorcycle), YMMV on this. I find a pillion that leans too much, leans opposite or leans unexpectedly makes my ability to control the motorcycle difficult to dangerous. Also, pillions that lean will learn to anticipate corners and their leaning totally blows my ability to properly setup for a corner. My sister-in-law is particularly bad about this.

Tell the pillion to avoid sudden weight moves, sudden sticking out of any limbs or rapidly turning around.

You may want to consider revising your driving technique to help a new pillion enjoy the experience. My brother's philosophy is that if a new pillion didn't piss their pants from fear they didn't get the whole motorcycle experience. My approach is pretty much opposite that. I try to moderate start/stop and try not to do POP, POP, POP shifting causing pillion bobble-head. At first I try to moderate my cornering until they get a few miles to get accustom to the feel. If you want your pillion to ride with you again, adjust your riding style to help them enjoy the experience. Find someplace without city traffic that is pleasurable and fun.

I reserve the right to add more to this as I remember more of what I intended to write.

Edited to add: When I started this post there were zero replies. I now see that you have a trunk with a backrest, good, that is one of the singularly best things you can have to bolster a rookies confidence.

 

[DE OPPRESSO LIBER]

Tell the pillion to wait until you say you are set and ready before they get on. The same is true with getting off, the pillion has to wait for you to get set first and then give the ok before they disembark.

This is a BIG one, Barry! Easy to drop the bike if you aren't prepared for the weight transfer. Good'un Alan!

 

[Lowcountry Joe]

First...make sure you get her (and you) the proper PPE before the ride. My greatest fear when riding a pillion is injuring that person during the ride. All the equipment all the time is good advice, doesn't guarantee anything as far as not getting injured, but I can guarantee you that if you and she don't wear it and you do down, it won't be something you will forget....ever. And her newly found fondness for the bike will disappear faster than a fart in a wirlwind. (and maybe her fondness for you as well!)

Then get her on the bike and go to a vacant parking lot and practice some emergency stopping and slow speed turns. You are going to be surprised at how much more effort and distance is required to stop that bike now that she is on board. Don't skip this step!

The bike is going to feel a bit more top heavy than you have noticed so far. Expect that.

Tell her to NEVER make any sudden moves while riding..slow or fast riding. If you turn right, she needs to be looking over your right shoulder, if you turn left then she looks over your left shoulder.

Never allow her to mount or dismount until you verbally tell her that you are ready and prepared for her to do so.

ATEATT....no damn tennis shoes or frilly pink slippers, unless of course if you don't mind the possibility of tearing the hell out of your (and her) ankles and feet in a crash. Your call. You've paid several grand for a bike, you need to also invest in proper rider protection equipment.

Don't let her distract you...with her on you need to focus even more sharply than before. It's ok to occasionally chat, but keep it reasonable...you are on two wheels now with the mother of your kids...don't fook it up!

I am sure others will chime-in on this. I wish you good fortune.

Oh yea, one last thing, I would still give the neighborhood ladies a ride, it's the neighborly thing to do!

 

[exskibum]

First time on back with me? I'd tell her this: "Relax and just stay with the bike (your back in the same orientation to it as when you are sitting behind me not moving). Whatever you do, don't lean to the outside of the turn. Don't move around on the bike, and if you have to move, do it subtly, slowly and smoothly. This is especially important if we are doing something other than going in a straight line or if we're slowing down."

I absolutely agree on the backrest; makes it much easier for a pillion to relax AND to: "just stay with the bike."

Advanced pillion that I've ridden with a while? Different instructions, to an extent varied by my assessment of her innate feeling of carving through a turn, the way she reacts to me and the bike and whether I sense that she and I are on the same page about everything from seeing and reacting to potential threats to looking all the way through corners. I'm lucky to have a great pillion again. She is an expert equestrian, so her reaction to other controlling entities between her and the road is pretty close to perfect. She's used to having a horse's reaction to terrain as a baseline, so her reaction to me manipulating the bike on the road is never a distraction. She sees what I'm reacting to and why. And she's got some advanced abilities -- practiced panic stop reaction, the ability to let me move freely left and right on the seat in fast twisties, and a sense to follow my body in sweepers. A good pillion can minimize the effect of the extra weight.

If you've only logged 4,000 miles on motorcycles, though, first thing is to be conservative and cautious. A pillion is a noticeably greater weight, up high to make the bike more top heavy. If she's inexperienced, you need to be ready ahead of time for what it's going to be like in a panic stop or hard turn (e.g., a decreasing radius turn where the bike's suspension compresses) and be able to handle it -- ignore it and do what you have to do while other things are demanding your attention. She's likely to have all her weight on you (which will be borne by your hands on the grips) in a panic stop. (As you log more miles together, teach her to plant her palms on the tank with her arms around you in panic stops.) The extra weight (even if she remains neutral) dramatically changes your ability to drive the bike lower (lean it more) in a turn you entered too fast. Your suspension will bottom out more easily in hard corners, etc. So, most importantly: make sure you get very used to riding with a pillion before you get anywhere close to the edge of the envelope you've so far defined in your riding experience.

Good luck, be safe and have fun. The bike won't perform as well two up, but it's great sharing the fun, thrill and view of the world from a moto-bike with a wife or girlfriend. Well, hell -- having breasts against your back is NEVER a bad thing, either.

 

[eg23232]

Many of the points have been covered here already, but a good reference is Lee Parks' book Total Control. He has a chapter devoted to riding with a passenger. Good info therein.

 

[zip]

I love this forum, and you guys are tremendously generous. This is fantastic, vital information, gentlemen. Studying every word.

Thank you!!!

 

[S76]

Everything I had to add is mostly in there already. I did have one noteworthy incident when riding with a pax though. I got into a tight turn just a tad hot but not at all concerned because I do that turn all the time. What took me by surprise was the extra handlebar effort required to get the bike leaned over and I ran a little wide.

You'll have to manhandle it a bit more than usual.

 

[Bokerfork]

+1 to almost everything above. But one more thing. And this is important.

Before you give her the go ahead to mount or dismount, make damn sure you have the bike well under control. This means a firm grip on the handlebars, feet spread wide and flat on the ground. Know which side she is mounting from(obvious but important). Watch her as she mounts so that you are prepared for the weight transfer.

It also helps if she mounts and dismounts from the same side every time.

Now go have fun.

 

[Auburn]

One of the easiest things to have her do, is to look over your shoulder in the direection you are turning. She doesn't need to shift her wieght (better for you if she doesn't) and relax and have fun.

Tell her to keep her feet up always.

Adjust your riding, take it slow, you are taking action for the both of you now.

 

[wfooshee]

The actual getting on and off hasn't been covered here yet.

When you're ready (both feet on the ground, hands on the bars, front brake on firmly) tell her to get on. She should check both foot pegs down, even if you've already done so. It's a rude surprise to have no place to put her foot when she gets it across the seat! She should stand on the left side foot peg then swing her right leg through the gap between you and the backrest/top case, put her foot on the other peg and then sit. She should not use anything on the bike but you for her hands while climbing on: no resting on the lid of the top case or side cases, they aren't made for that weight.

Similar getting off. When you're stopped and ready, tell her OK. She stands up on the pegs, brings one leg across the seat while standing on the other peg, then brings that leg to the ground. My wife prefers to mount from the left and dismount to the right, I don't know why. But since she's dismounting to the right, pulling up to the curb gives her a shorter dropoff. Again, hands only on you: your arms or shoulders.

If you have a wired intercom, don't let her walk off still plugged in!!!!

And mind the throttle. My wife has no fucking clue how fast the bike is. She thinks she's been pretty quick on it, but she has no idea. Just like driving a performance car, a nervous or uncomfortable passenger is an unwilling passenger. There's nothing to be enjoyed by scaring the piss out of them, and I've never understood why some guys get off on that.

Everything else I would say has been said: Don't fight the lean, look into the turn over your shoulder, never try to put her feet down (she won't be able to reach the ground anyway), don't move around, especially when you're just moving out or nearly stopped. If she needs to stretch or twist, it's best to do that at speed, actually, as long as the bike is straight and she warns you first.

She won't remember, but it wouldn't hurt to tell her that if something happens to put the bike on its side, holding on is the last thing she wants to do. Let go in a crash!

 

[Fastfar]

Really good info posted here, lots to absorb so you should let her read through it all and then talk about it...

Besides what's been covered, I teach my pillions to behave differently on the straights/sweepers vs. the twisties. On the easy stuff I like them to just stay with the bike, it's easy to control their added mass if it is part of the bike and not moving around changing the center of gravity. The tips about her resting against a backrest are perfect.

When we get into the twisties I prefer the passenger to scoot up close to me, and stay snug to my back, look over the outside shoulder of the turns, this lets her weight transfer remain under my control while I am moving us to the inside of the turn and lowering our center of gravity...ever seen riders two up at the track? That's how the fast ones do it, you may see the pillion hanging off nearly as much as the rider. Check out these pics at 4theriders.com for some examples, though I don't get so extreme on the street as these folks do at the track for sure...Also you may notice that at the track, some of the pillions are looking over the inside shoulder of the rider...these are the fast 2-up riders, they been doing it together for awhile and this is an advanced technique I do not recommend for the street...By the way, none of the 2-up riders in the track photography crashed, not even close...mad skillz :friends:

You will both improve with experience, so take it easy the first few hundred miles, it will come to you...

 

[Tyler]

Great advice here already but I'll add a few things based on my prior experience as a pillion and having ridden with my daughter as a passenger... communication is key. Think about getting some sort of communication system - BlueTooth Blue Ant headsets, etc. Take some shorter rides to test things out before embarking on a big journey. Signals are a must for both. If something isn't gelling, pull over and talk about it. Plan for more breaks for both of you... 400 miles solo is way different than 400 miles two-up. Plan stops for things to see and experience together. Be flexible with your plans. A happy pillion makes for a happy ride for both of you!

 

[Checkswrecks]

Good advice, all.

Two minor items...

After the wife and daughter both got burned ankles on the pipe in front of the muffler, point out that she can get a burn from it.

And I don't care how bad she scuffs the paint or whatever, I'd tell her it's no big deal because it's worth having her share the ride. Otherwise, you won't get her back on for years.

 

[JimLor]

I was lucky in that Lorie and I both took the basic course together. I was even luckier because Lorie doesn't want to pilot her own bike! The getting on and off is very important. We have an intercom so we can talk, but if you don't, have her stand to your left front and look you in the eyeball and ask if you're ready. Before she gets off, have her put her hands on your shoulders and shout the same. Make it a positive process or you will wind up on the ground sooner or later. Great info here, especially the part where she doesn't lean out to look at something or pick her butt! To be kind, ask her every once in a while if she wants to stretch her legs -- when you're stopped.

I'm lucky, Lorie is a wonderful pillion -- and wife!

 

[bramfrank]

The most sage advice I might give is to tell your passenger that;

"Screaming in my ear will not be tolerated"

Then wind her up and drop the hammer.

After that, the question will have proved to be rhetorical.