After less than two months with an AE.......shame on Yamaha Customer Service

[WRichStrom]

Thanks to the FJR Forum for a place to rant!

I posted back in early May about trading my '07 A for a new '09AE https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=145514 . I had the '07 and without drama lived through the altitude sickness, wiring loom spyder meltdowns, and the ignition switch recalls. I never had an issue with the abrupt throttle and seemed to just adapt. No issues. But I was intrigued by the paddle shifters for awhile and didn't do my homework! But this forum has been awesome for me in doing my own maintenance and even doing a valve check last winter just for the heck of it. And the Brodie wiring harness was a real worry saver. Everyone was awesome.

For full disclosure sometimes I just make ******* decisions i.e. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=111450 which is one example.

So onto to my story.

In early May I just feel like a change and the dealer tells me that the guys who have AE's love them. One of their customers has even bought two, just because when he wears out his first one he wants to have another AE to go to. I think the challenge of changing my riding style would be good for me. And I traded my A for the new AE. Got a decent trade in and the dealer gets to make $2500 or so on the trade within a week. So everyone is happy.

But I notice at times the darned thing just doesn't shift from 1st to 2nd, and 2nd to 1st very well. I am still in new bike shock so I ride it a week. I go up to the dealer the following week and tell them this thing is just not right (the same day that my old '07A trade sells) and they say it just needs to break in. I chock it up to "quirky" plus my inexperienced technique. But by that time I am getting pretty darned good at the paddle shifter.

So the following week I call the dealer and they were great (salesman, a tech, and the service writer all take the bike for a quick ride) and two say it is fine, and the service writer says there is something to what I am saying about 2nd to 1st. The dealer is real busy and can't write a Repair Order but I am assured by the dealer that Yamaha stands by its products. The tech lubricates a shifting lever device and I think that is supposed to make me feel all will be well? There goes an issue with the Lemon Law - no written 1st Repair Order.

As I experience more of this "quirky behavior" you can just tell when you talk to the dealer they all think I am just making this story up. I think in my mind I have been a very loyal to Yamaha and this dealer (I always do dealer maintenance, etc.) and they will do me right in the end. I also am pretty successful career wise and am currently in charge of a nearly $100 million / year budget and keeping on schedule, people safe, etc., so I am assured that I am not totally a jerk or insane on this motorcycle. But I am assured that let's work with Yamaha they will stand by you and make this right.

So right before the dealer 600 mile service (I do all my own work on my cars, but not the motorcycle) in this case I decide to change oil/filter and the rear pumpkin lube and believe the indicator shows 900 rpm and I adjust it up to 1050 rpm to the best of my ability. A few days later I take the AE to the dealer for the 600 mile service and it now comes back idling at 1300 rpm (indicated) but I assume they know best and I don't re-adjust the idle screw from then on.

So I also have the intermittent situation where I occasionally drive up to a stop light and sit there in traffic in 1st gear that when the light turns I can't get the clutch to engage or accelerate, with a SHIFT error and then with rpms going up I get the dreaded SH46 error. The only way to clear this is to shut off the bike by the key and restart then all is good. This shut off/restart is a lousy thing to do in a very busy street in a turn lane when you can't move and the guy behind you is focused on the traffic moving and drives to within 2 ft. of my back-end before realizing I am stuck there doing a restart to clear codes. It was not safe pure and simple.

So I take it back to the dealer on 6/15/12 and fully intend to trade it in for a 650 V-Strom and move on, but I just can't get over how much of a financial blood bath I will take there. And I feel trapped with the AE as I can't ethically try to sell it while it is acting the way it is. The dealer convinces me that I haven't given Yamaha adequate time to fix this (I started being concerned back on May 11th).

The Repair Order states the following:

1. Idle in first gear at stop for 1 - 2 minutes and vehicle will not engage the clutch or accelerate (Note: Condition accompanied by a "SHIFT" warning below 3K rpm and a "SH46" warning above 3K rpms's). A key off restart is required to reset and enable proper operation.

2. Bike will not disengage clutch when in 2nd gear while deaccelerating and will not allow downshifting into first gear, thus the bike stalls. A key off restart is required to reset and enable proper operation.

Dealer tells me to call Yamaha Customer Service on Monday 6/18/12 to say what is happening with the bike. I talked to two nice people who transfer me to "Nick" I tell them that the bike is clearly not safe and I am not happy for taking a great bike as a trade for this with its issues. The AE was sold to me as a seamless operation and never did I imagine this SHIFT and SH46 error codes would happen intermittently. I am asked about the battery and connections and I confirmed that the battery is new, connections have been checked, and I always use a battery tender. Cypress says they will stay in touch and of course don't.

The dealer though has a great service writer and he stays in touch and tells me that the salesman on his own time has been able to replicate #2 above. So I guess I am not making up some great fiction story! I am told that the rpms are to high (dealer did the previous adjustment at the 600 mile service, and I communicate that I corrected it prior to the 600 mile service when brand new). I am told that 1300rpms are to high, and they will check it with a special Yamaha tool. I am also told that it appears that the switch on the foot lever is sometimes not "talking" to the electric clutch computer, and there is a gear position sensor that also could be a culprit. I am left with the impression that on 6/20/12 that the rpms will be dropped to 1000, the foot lever switch and gear position sensor will be replaced.

On 6/21/12 I don't go on my planned 1000 mile iron butt ride with some pals because I have no bike.... Then I call in and am told that Yamaha wants to do this diagnostic sequentially with the rpm adjustment to 1000rpm first. Then leave it with me and if there are still symptoms go the foot lever switch, then if things repeat to the gear position sensor. Meanwhile I am left with the thought that I am going to be ran over in a turn lane as in symptom #1 above. I call and say no way, this is unacceptable. The service writer is nice about it, but I get no call back.

So I run over to another dealer in Kennewick, WA and look at standard clutch lever C-14s and 650 V-Stroms and realize that I took vacation on June 21st to do a 1000 mile iron butt ride but I have not bike. And I won't be going to Castlegar, BC for the NAFO, because I have no confidence in the bike and don't have the bike until close of 6/21/12.

So I took a blood bath financially and feel that I have been wronged by Yamaha that only wants a sale, and appears to not care one iota that they have made a very loyal customer upset. But Yamaha is willing to do the warranty work and take as long as they want with no apparent accountability on timeliness, and anything I say always has to be verified by the dealer. Kudos to the salesman who does the verification on his own time versus Yamaha not wanting to accrue using warranty charges. The service writer did find a foot lever switch and was having it flown in from Japan, but was so swamped that is not communicated to me. I assume I am left with only the option of the rpm change.

So in summary

I have decided to move on and will have either a C-14 or a 650 V-Strom by next week. The 1300AE has been blessed via Repair Order and I have the assurance that Yamaha thinks it is simply a change of rpms from 1300 to 1000, so I have the confidence of a trade in (which I will disclose the issue). With a different ride I will be at least riding (and not waiting some undescribed time for Yamaha to make it "right" to the customer.

Lessons Learned:

1. Myself

*Not all high tech "things" really work out

*Like the Harley purchase (see link above) I should have stuck with what was working, the '07 FJR1300A which was fantastic

*Be more forceful with the dealer right from the beginning

*If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't but that leads to impatience which I have in this situation

As a positive I didn't want to become another Shane Stump story on this forum. I will have lost a ton of money but will be moving on emotionally despite my impression that Yamaha has wronged me.

2. Yamaha

*Shame on them for being so strongly biased towards just simply making the sale

*Shame on them for not following up with me

*Shame on them for not making this right in the middle of riding season.

*Yamaha got their money and they won, they wore me down.

3. Dealer

*Positive for listening to my concerns

*Positive for Pat Jaquish at Desert Valley Powersports for replicating the downshift symptom on his own time

*Great service writer

*Shame on the service writer for assuming that I was the cause of the 1300 rpms without giving me the benefit of the doubt

*Shame that the buyer is assumed to be at fault, not the product.

As I left the dealer today a service tech who has over 20 years of experience said he "hopes" this dropping the rpms down to 1000 solves the problems. We all know that dropping 1300 rpms to 1000 rpms is bull manure and Yamaha needs to fix the components that the dealer thought yesterday needed to be replaced.

Not going to be a Yamaha customer for a very long time.

Sorry for the rant folks.

WRichStrom

PS, I barely missed the deadline for the Friday "dogpile"!!!

 

[Burnspot]

I don't own an AE, so I'm taking a shot in the dark here....perhaps the clutch plates need a soak (seems to be a somewhat common thing)? Of course, that could be only part of the problem. I know the AE riders will chime in here soon.

 

[FJRBandit]

Rich, I understand your frustration and certainly hate it for you that you are going through this. It's unfortunate that you have decided to "move on" because I think you are leaving a potentially great bike behind at substantial costs to you. The AE is basically fool proof and I think you just somehow got a lemon. The AE is a great bike but for some reason something is out of kilter with yours, obviously. Personally, I think you are making the move a little quick. It sucks that you had to forego the Iron Butt ride but there are plenty of days ahead for that, it's not the end of the world. Also, it sucks you won't be able to go to Castlegar. But to me it sounds like everyone is doing everything they can, even Yamaha, to get the bike straightened out.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be thrilled either and I know it has to be disappointing. But hang in there dude - they'll get it right. If they can't I just have to believe that they (the dealer and Yamaha) will do what is necessary to make you happy. I base that opinion on their actions to this point. It seems to me they really are doing everything they can. Being in the middle of the firestorm it certainly doesn't feel that way I know. Just hang in there and give them a little more time.

 

[mcatrophy]

Really sorry about your experience.

Just a couple of points (they won't make you feel better, but still ...)

Putting your idle to 1300 was a big mistake. Coming to rest, the clutch doesn't disengage until the engine speed is below 1300, I've no doubt you felt the engine still trying to drive as you were almost stopped. Then the computer doesn't like the idle speed, so it complains when stationary.

As for the poor change from 2nd to 1st, I never find it smooth on mine. Technique can make a big difference, but even so it's rare I get a "good" change without a "clunk".

My '06 was particularly poor until I gave it a clutch soak, after that it was much better (as were all gear changes). My '10 is acceptable (to me), but I am tempted to give it a clutch soak just to see if it will improve it.

I suspect your dealer doesn't understand the AE's characteristics, hence his upping your idle speed. On a conventional this can help some issues, on the AE it's not acceptable, it will upset the computer (I have mine idling at about 900-1000). Even if he knew about the dry clutch syndrome, he might not be able to get Yamaha to cover the (minor) expense of a clutch soak, so would be reluctant to offer this.

Anyway, I wish you a better experience with your next bike.

 

[bramfrank]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

However clutch soaking hasn't been an issue on factory-fresh FJRs for years. Not having owned an AE I can't comment on the error codes and whether they might be related to high idle RPMs - but you reported those even with 900 and 1050 RPM settings.

Doesn't your state have a lemon law? Why are you taking a loss when you can sue for a refund in full?

 

[canadianfjrowner]

I would say it is the dealer that had the most to loose and it is the dealer that didn't follow up with great customer service. It isn't up to Yamaha to fix the bike, but rather the selling dealer's problem. You have to understand that at most dealerships, the sales department and the service departments are run as 2 separate entities. Hence, when it is bussy, the service department prefers to repair CP (Customer pay) bikes and not warranty repair bikes as the warranties never pay as much (less profit). Let this be a warning to anybody else buying a new motorcycle, or for that matter any vehicle. You have to stand up for your rights right out of the gate. Let the service department know that your machine is more important than anything else in the shop. If you purchased a bike and it has major issues like this, go immediately to the top dog at the dealership. After all they are all human and at least he should care what your impressions of his dealership is possitive.

I bought my AE used with 1000miles on it and I truly love this bike.

 

[Fly Bye]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

However clutch soaking hasn't been an issue on factory-fresh FJRs for years. Not having owned an AE I can't comment on the error codes and whether they might be related to high idle RPMs - but you reported those even with 900 and 1050 RPM settings.

Doesn't your state have a lemon law? Why are you taking a loss when you can sue for a refund in full?

I agree.

There is no reason for you to take a financial hit.

I think at this point in time it might be prudent to take a hard stand with the service department and the owner of the dealership.

It's OK to be nice to a point, but as we all know the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[Aasland]

I have nothing to add ... other than the VStrom 650 is a great bike. All it needs to be awesome are better forks (Eliminators are promising), a different seat and windshield suited for the rider.

I've also ridden the C14 and prefer the Strom over it.

 

[Patriot]

geez, so sorry for that experience...bikes are supposed to be positive therapy and not another gigantic stressor

best to you

Mike in Nawlins'

 

[gixxerjasen]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

However clutch soaking hasn't been an issue on factory-fresh FJRs for years.

I wouldn't call an 09 "Factory Fresh" if purchased recently. The clutch soak is so much more important for a bike that has been sitting for a long period of time.

I'll also second that while moving the rpm may not completely fix the bike, having it at 1300 certainly isn't helping matters AT ALL. I can totally see from a troubleshooting standpoint why Yamaha would suggest that as a first option. Having it at 1300 RPM is certainly going to cause issues, get that part eliminated right away.

Also, I'll second that part of the problem here is your shop. I've found that the way a shop works with the manufacturer makes 100% of a difference in the outcome of a warranty claim. If your shop had noted that they'd reset the rpm from x to y on your 600 mile service and also noted that you were having problems at that point, then they could have gone to Yamaha and said "Yea, our guys goofed and put the RPM at 1300, but he was having problems before we set it like that" then the answer from Yamaha might have been different. In addition, if they were on your side and were properly communicating with Yamaha then I believe that you should have never have had to make that phone call.

As far as making money from warranty work...a friend that worked at a car dealer told me they loved warranty work. Customers will usually complain and nickle and dime them to death when it comes to paying for service, but warranty work is pretty much guaranteed money. That's why they'll give you free oil changes and when you come in ask "Anything else wrong with the car?" They get you in their shop (and not at Jiffy Lube) and then have the opportunity to investigate that funny sound on the manufacturers dime.

My suggestion would be to try and have the other Yamaha shop take a look at it. You can get warranty work done at any Yamaha shop, not just the one you bought it from. I'd bet that not only would they like to prove that their competition dealer is a bunch of numb nuts, but to get that warranty work in their shop. And then, when you get those three service writeups, you can go for the lemon law by showing that you had two different dealerships check it out.

It sucks but it sounds like you either take a bath in the $$$ lost or deal with the process. In the end you either lose money, or you get the bike fixed, or you get out of it with the lemon law. I'm a cheap *******, so you know which way I'd go.

Also, in the end, I wouldn't consider this to be a ******* decision. You made a pretty sound decision, sought out advice on it, and then acted on that advice. As I haven't read of anyone else having this issue and am not having this issue on my AE, I'd write this off to just bad luck than a ******* decision. How you go forward could prove otherwise and you may regret whatever decision you make, or you may come out of this happy on a good bike...whatever bike that is. I wish you the best of luck sir and don't envy you your position.

 

[Top_Speed1]

The AE has been nothing but flawless for me. I'm guilty of not reading your whole post (way too long) but isn't this what a warranty is for?

I guess there's always a lemon sooner or later but a good (technical) Yami mechanic should be able to solve this. Good luck

 

[cpr1200r100]

2012 R1200RT !

If i didnt get such a great deal on an 2004 8,400 mile mobile FJR rocket, thats where I was going for a next bike. Yes, Beemer dealers, manufacture, and owners also can, and sometimes do suck...But the Clubs/Owners Associations/annonomous book of owners willing to help if you break down/web sites are truly magnificant.

btw...my 2007 R1200R w/ ABS, Cases, Wilbers Shocks,and Full Remus Exhaust is still available here in FLorida or ive got an low mileage FJR...huh? huh? tempted yet?

 

[NMRoadRunner]

They quit selling the AEs for a reason. Yamaha said it was because of low sales, if you trust what they say, I really don't. I didn't get one because they were unproven when I puurchased my 07, I also liked the Black Cherry on the standard model. But I dodn't think the C-14 is your answer. I think you should go back to a standard clutch FJR, plain an simple. The Connie is not a simple bike and not inexpensive to repair or service. Or switch to ADV riding and pick up a nice Super Tenere instead! B)

 

[FJRPittsburgh]

NMRoadRunner,

If you are suggesting that there is something technically wrong with the AE, you would be mistaken. The reason for stopping production on the AE was due to poor sales. I've been riding mine for 3 years and it is a thing of beauty. I never even touch the foot shifter because it is a waste of time for me. The paddle shifter on the left handlebar is smooth as silk. I've never had a problem shifting into any gear or any other problem with the bike whatsoever. Well, I do have one problem... it gets dirty and I have to wash it. I worked at a Yamaha dealership for one season 3 years ago and I can vouch for the poor sales of the AE. Inventory of unsold AE's across the nation was growing. In general, people don't like change. The thought of not having a manual clutch to many riders is unheard of. I like to live with modern technology and can assure you that I will never own another bike with a clutch. Especially in this case when you still have the fun of shifting through all the gears. It's just like a high performance sports car with a paddle shifter on the steering wheel. Totally awesome!

Adjusting the idle on the bike to 1300 rpms is not only wrong, it is dangerous. The clutch could disengage and the bike could start moving forward at idle. I keep my idle at 1000 rpms. I don't believe there is anything wrong with the quality of the mechanics at the dealership. It is simply their inexperience with the AE as so few are sold through each individual shop. Being that the bike sat so long, I would consider the clutch soak idea as the best place to start.

The V-Strom and the FJR are both excellent bikes, but not in the same category. I've heard lots of C-14 owners rave about their bikes and it certainly is a great bike. The FJR is much easier to service for routine maintenance though.

Jeff

 

[gixxerjasen]

They quit selling the AEs for a reason. Yamaha said it was because of low sales, if you trust what they say, I really don't.

Yea, they quit selling AE's, but they continued selling AS's didn't they?

 

[302]

Set the rpm to 1000 and switch oil to Shell Rotella T synthetic and all of your shifting issues should go away, this fixed all of the issues with my 2007 AE. Now I have 45,000 miles on the bike and it runs perfect.

 

[FJRBandit]

This thread is not entitled, "The dog pile AE thread". FJRPitt hit the nail on the head, " I've been riding mine for 3 years and it is a thing of beauty. I never even touch the foot shifter because it is a waste of time for me. The paddle shifter on the left handlebar is smooth as silk. I've never had a problem shifting into any gear or any other problem with the bike whatsoever. Well, I do have one problem... it gets dirty and I have to wash it". End of story regarding the AE. It is an awesome bike, just as is the A. It's just more technologically advanced and whether you care to participate in that technology is your choice to do so or not.

This thread is about a dude buying a bike that is just in general, ****** up. My hope is that he is more patient with the process and is able to work towards a positive resolution. That doesn't mean that it's not time to turn up the heat on the dealer and Yamaha, but with the right mechanic this bike can be fixed to run as flawless as the other 99.9% of AE's on the road. There are going to be lemons, regardless of the type of bike it is. This is not an AE problem, this is a problem with THE AE that Rich unfortunately got.

BTW - I have a Strom in the garage as well. I love that bike too, but it's a whole different ride when compared to the FJR. You bought the FJR for a reason. Now make them fix the bike and I think you will have miles of smiles ahead. Good luck Rich!

 

[Bust-A-Cap]

Last summer I had a lot of difficulty getting the dealership to do the spider recall work on my 09. They kept (3 times) telling me they didn't have the parts and for me to call them when they had the parts in stock; this lasted over a damn month. Meanwhile the recall notice says that it is potentially dangerous to even ride the bike before the recall work is done. I thought about all of this and finally got pissed; I called Yamaha and complained VERY LOUD explaining that if anything happens to me while I'm riding the bike back and forth to the dealership for this recall I was going to sue Yamaha and the dealership for negligence. Does anybody else think that they should have provided free tow service especially if they thought the bike was too dangerous to ride? Well, this got their collective attention and the next call I received was the dealership calling, apologizing and begging me to bring the bike back so they could do the recall work. You see, I also deal with multi million dollar capital project contracts and have to evaluate contractors on a regular basis before and after awarding contracts. I don't allow myself to get too chummy with any of them because it compromises the integrity of our business relationship. Trust me, the first time things go wrong and they have a payment issue the chuminess is thrown out of the window and they are calling for my head! I treat them all the same way and never think twice about getting into their kitchens whenever they cause an unnecessary delay or screw up. The relevance of my story is that when it comes to business you can't be nice and patient (the dealership expected payment for your bike before you received the keys!) be a mean PITA and throw the word lawsuit around a bit and you will get the attention and service you deserved in the first place. Take a loss? On a new bike? Hell To The No!

 

[Top_Speed1]

Set the rpm to 1000 and switch oil to Shell Rotella T synthetic and all of your shifting issues should go away, this fixed all of the issues with my 2007 AE. Now I have 45,000 miles on the bike and it runs perfect.

Oil may be his easy answer but that just sounds too easy 2 me.

I run Mobil-1 and Mobil 75/90 Synth gear oil. Mine is "Indy-Car shifting smooth" and I have no problems with the AE at all and maybe it's because of the oil but that sounds like a long shot as the fix/cure.

My next bike ...I'm hoping (GenIII) will have an AE option as I'm spoiled with the quick up and down shifts (yes quicker than any 'A' models shifts even with cool hand luke on the clutch).

I've talked with a bunch of AE owners, all speak the same words n would NOT give it up to go back to an 'A' model. Neither FJR is a bad choice btw, it's all what you get use to basically, the guys still giving hand jobs are having just as much fun as us non chicken-chokers... just say'n