Aftermarket Suspension

[Moosehead]

I have to upgrade my suspension this winter and as we all know it's very expensive. There are many different choices(Penske, Ohlins, Racetech etc) and I'm sure that any one of them is way better than the stock. So I'm curious to know which one lasts the longest before it wears out.

So for you guys that have upgraded your suspension, how many miles did you get out of your upgrade until you had to rebuild again?

 

[Joe2Lmaker]

Good question.

I'm hoping the answer is Race Tech and that we see another group buy this winter.

 

[Ignacio]

So for you guys that have upgraded your suspension, how many miles did you get out of your upgrade until you had to rebuild again?

It's not really a matter of have to rebuild...it's when you should and suggested. Suspension starts to wear out with the first bump you go over.

GP Suspension suggests rebuilds at 20,000 miles nominally for the products it offers....Penske, Ohlins, and the front fork conversions it customizes. I've done 40,000 miles on the forks before and they were still light years ahead of the stock suspension when it was new, but drained out as a watery and sludgy mess. You might be able to extend that in the forks if you change the oil yourself regularly.

 

[Niehart]

I rebuilt my GS Suspension forks and shock at 27,000. Forks were in need but the Penske would have been good for more miles. Just seemed like it was a good time to do both.

 

[DJB]

I am redoing the front forks this year with race tech gold valves. My rear gets rebuilt every 2 years. I have a hyper pro.

 

[RossKean]

What's involved with a "rebuild". I bought my '07 with Hyperpro front springs and a Penske rear shock. I was planning to do fork oil plus new bushings/seals on the front this winter - 30,000 miles. Should i be doing anything else to them?

What service is required/recommended for the rear shock? No apparent problem but would like to make sure its good to go for another year. (I do ~25,000 miles/year)

Ross

 

[Hudson]

For the fronts, I think the rebuild timeframe has less to do with the shock, and more to do with the bushings. GP did my fronts and installed an Ohlins rear. For the fronts, the fork bushings were shot at 13k miles, and GP says the Gen II bushings usually start to go south in as little as 7-10k miles. GP recommended rebuilds for front and rear every 15k miles.

Since a fork rebuild runs about $175, and a rear shock rebuild runs a bit more, I would plan on rebuilding any shock when you get the fronts done.

 

[Bungie]

Mike, take a look at Haulin' Ashes announcement of the Cogent/Ohlins suspension/group by post.

I'm in the same boat as you. 100000 on the poor old beast and its way past due for a major refurb and upgrade. My winter project.

 

[Heng22]

Hi, I would like to hear some comments on Wilber & Ohlins shocks. I do not have the specfic model but generally which one is 'so call' better or which one will u buy.

 

[RossKean]

For the fronts, I think the rebuild timeframe has less to do with the shock, and more to do with the bushings. GP did my fronts and installed an Ohlins rear. For the fronts, the fork bushings were shot at 13k miles, and GP says the Gen II bushings usually start to go south in as little as 7-10k miles. GP recommended rebuilds for front and rear every 15k miles.

Since a fork rebuild runs about $175, and a rear shock rebuild runs a bit more, I would plan on rebuilding any shock when you get the fronts done.

I have no issue about bushings and oil for the front. I just don't know whether anything else is needed.

With the rear Penske, I have no clue what should be required (if anything). No obvious problems with handling for either shock but changes may be subtle and not really noticed until really bad.

I do not relish the thought of having to do a major rebuild of front and rear shocks every year (or more often). I ride something on the order of 25,000 mi/year.

Ross

 

[NC Rick]

With regard to rear damper (shock) longevity this post refers to Ohlins, Penske and Wilbers units which are all well made products and really share a very similar requirement for servicing. Many manufacturers are going to recomend very frequent servicing that may seem (and even be) a bit unreasonable. Often these high end dampers are used in quite demanding conditions, including racing. The manufacturers recommendations are not made to help line anyone's pockets as some folks suspect but instead, they are made to provide a level of performance and reliability equal to a new shock.

In the real world, the service interval for a shock depends on many conditions that are much more important than what brand shock we are using. These conditions are also pertinent to the OEM shock.

The single rear damper on our bikes do more "work" than both fork legs combined. Because of the lever ratio in the rear suspension the damper is converting the 4 or more inches rear wheel travel down to something closer to 2 inches. The damping requirement at the rear shock is very high and many FJR shocks can create over 1/2 a ton of force under bumpy conditions. Oil in the shock converts this force into heat essentially by shearing the suspension fluid (a specially formulated high quality oil) in the shock. Our shocks hold a limited amount of fluid, perhaps only 8 OZ. compared to something closer to 50 OZ. in the forks. If I were an oil molecule, a rear shock would be one of the worst places I would want to live... A nice fresh oil change in our shocks helps the longevity and performance of the damper unit. Suspension fluid needs to have good lubrication properties and viscosity stability over a wide range of temperatures.

Damper fluid ends up holding quite a lot of particulate material including dirt and moisture from the outside. There are quite a few sliding wear components in a damper and even with the state of the art, wonderful designs made to reduce friction and wear in use, both occur and Teflon, Buna-n, Viton and various metallic compounds wear off and end up in the oil. A new shock breaks in just like a new engine. Who would consider not changing the engine oil? Further, shock shaft and fork seals are primarily designed to keep the suspension fluid in the damper and in a secondary function scrape off elements from the outside world before too much can get in. These components are imperfect and allow some transfer from one side to the other. For this reason, some fluid gets out of the damper over time and some of the outside world gets in. Because of the far greater area of the fork seals compared to shock seal, this transfer of fluid and contaminants is a much worse problem for our forks that for the shock but the volumes of oil help the forks. The fork oil is more subject to oxidation where the pressurized inert gas and oil/gas separation protects rear damper oil from this oxidation.

High quality, highly engineered damper units like the Ohlins and Penske do much to enhance our riding experience. We can install them and forget them just as some folks do with the OEM cheapo shocks, but if we take care of our suspension components they will take care of us and provide us with an incredibly long service life, awesome performance and really good retained value.

 

[MCRIDER007]

With regard to rear damper (shock) longevity this post refers to Ohlins, Penske and Wilbers units which are all well made products and really share a very similar requirement for servicing..............................................................We can install them and forget them just as some folks do with the OEM cheapo shocks, but if we take care of our suspension components they will take care of us and provide us with an incredibly long service life, awesome performance and really good retained value.

Great post! Thanks for taking the time to educate us!! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Moosehead]

Very good post NC Rick. Basically for longevity, it's less important which brand I choose and more important how often I service them.

I aways had the idea that the rear shock was like an auto shock, a sealed for life, throw away component when it wears out. I service the front forks, why not service the rear shock too.

 

[BentAero]

NC Rick hit the nail on the head with the best explanation I've ever heard on *why*. I wrote the following piece for the Ohlins USA website:

"Why Service?

Just as you regularly change the oil in your engine, the oil in your suspension needs to be changed as well. Worse yet, your suspension doesn't have a filter!

With each stroke of travel, the polished surfaces of your suspension pick up microscopic particles of debris. Those particles get drawn into the oil, and over time contaminate the interior passageways. As the miles accumulate, so does the grunge. Without regular service, your high-performance suspension begins to lose it's ability to dampen force.

To keep your investment performing at it's design level, Ohlins recommends servicing your street motorcycle suspension every 12,000 to 15,000 miles, and your track/race bike suspension every 10 hours of track time."

Though not nearly as in depth as NCRick's version, you get the point. Important thing to consider is, You've invested in a high-performance sport-tourer, your riding time is limited, (most of us) and you want to make the most of your riding experience. So why would you not service your suspension?

Real answer: Most of use don't know we are supposed to.

Hey NCRick! Can I adopt your explanation for the OhlinsUSA website?

 

[Canadian FJR]

I've had three (maybe 4) seasons of gentle use on my rear Ohlins . The local suspension guys here tell me that they should be freshened up every 20,000 km but I'm well past that. The front has been done several times in that time period due to some not so gentle wheelie landings. I hope this helps.

Canadian FJR

 

[RossKean]

Some great information posted above!

On the front, I know (from reading here) that I am definately due for fork oil and quite possibly new bushings/seals siince they have at least 25,000 miles on them. Just don't know whether I should be doing anything else while i have it opened up.

Other than fluid, is there anything I should consider on the rear (Penske) shock?

What other bits in these suspension systems are generally considered to be wear items?

Ross

 

[NC Rick]

Ross, As soon as you open the Penske shock you should replace all the rubber wear parts. On any shock, the shaft seal should be replaced because it is a high wear part. In the case of the Penske, that seal is a round section Viton O-ring and after enough wear it will let all the oil out, even all at once . The shaft seal cost about $1. There is also a shaft scraper that helps keep junk out of your shock, another couple bucks. On an Ohlins shock, the seal is a little different design, it is a quad ring or 4 sided O ring that has more contact area and that ring is backed up by a Teflon backer ring that is designed to prevent extrusion of the o ring at extreme pressures. The Ohlins shock also has a shaft scraper. On your Penske shock, there is also a shaft bushing that is a standard Garlock design (basically steel coated in Babbitt and then Teflon) but those things will often last many, many miles. Stationary o rings don't have to be replaced if they have not compression set but since they are so inexpensive, I replace all of them. Some other key wear items in the Penske include the piston band expander ring which is a thin section o ring that provides outward pressure on the carbon filled Teflon wear band on your damper piston and the floating piston O ring that is also a sliding part.

It makes sense to take apart your valving stack since all the shims can trap some debris and potentially case the shock not to perform as well as it could. With the shims off, I check each one for wear and to see if they have any deformation or burning on them,. If there are problems, the shims should be changed (again this is a problem we see with high mile shocks that have not been cared for). After all that, I run the shock on a damper dynamometer to ensure proper function.

A typical rebuild of a shock like the your Penske, most shops should charge you about $120-$175 total to do all this work (that assumes the shock is in decent condition and did not need major parts). Really a quite good value I think. It is possible to carry out that kind of work as a home mechanic with some determination and a few special tools. For the time it takes, it is likely a lot more practical to send your shock to a good specialist shop that is properly equipped unless you are really into the DIY experience.

When your shock is out, clean and inspect the bearings in your linkage system, a little cleaning and grease and that stuff will last incredibly long. If bad, it really isn't too bad to replace the bad parts. Don't forget your forks and steering bearings. The suspension components are what make the bike feel and work great.

Compared to a car shock that cost $30 at K-mart the high end motorcycle dampers are like some NASA or Formula one part. We built a set of shocks for my sons car that he uses for Autocross. Lots of those enthusiasts will spend $1000 a corner to have Ohlins or Penske shocks on their cars as well. At least we only need one

 

[yamafitter]

I have the remote resevoir / hydralic preload adjuster Wilbers on the back and a GP Suspensions modified forks up front of my 06 AE. I was going to put an Ohlins on the back but at the time there was no listing from Ohlins for the bike and the Wilbers was the only one that had a hydralic preload that would allow me to maintain ride height easily when going "bareback" to fully loaded for trips.

This year was an exceptional year for mileage with the trips to CFR, WCR (across to Vancouver Island) & NAFO probably totalling 30,000 km for the season. I'm normally in the 10000 - 20000 range. My service plan is to change fork oil every season since it is so easy to do and it needs it and then pull the suspension (front & rear) every two years and send it back to GP suspensions for complete service.

The Gen 2 will need the bushings done more often the Gen 1 but I think for the average rider every two years for a complete service would be reasonable.

NC Rick gave us an excellent post as to the why and there is nothing I could add in that regard. It's just such a pain to completely remove my rear shock due to the need to loosen the shifting solenoid to get clearance to get the remote resevoir out on my paddle shifter.

GP suspensions normally take 5 hours tops to completely service an FJR if you do the "ride in" service. Mine was the AE from hell and was in the GP Suspensions shop for 9 hours.

In fairness to the gang at GP mine was the first AE they had seen with the "full race" Wilbers and it was a bit of an experiment to figure out how to remove the shock & resevoir. We thought we might have to remove the swingarm to get the resevoir out but then figured out that loosening the shifting solenoid and some clamps for some hoses gave us enough clearance. Next time I will be pulling the suspension off myself and ship the forks and shock to them.

 

[RossKean]

Ross, As soon as you open the Penske shock you should replace all the rubber wear parts. On any shock, the shaft seal should be replaced because it is a high wear part. In the case of the Penske, that seal is a round section Viton O-ring and after enough wear it will let all the oil out, even all at once . The shaft seal cost about $1. There is also a shaft scraper that helps keep junk out of your shock, another couple bucks. On an Ohlins shock, the seal is a little different design, it is a quad ring or 4 sided O ring that has more contact area and that ring is backed up by a Teflon backer ring that is designed to prevent extrusion of the o ring at extreme pressures. The Ohlins shock also has a shaft scraper. On your Penske shock, there is also a shaft bushing that is a standard Garlock design (basically steel coated in Babbitt and then Teflon) but those things will often last many, many miles. Stationary o rings don't have to be replaced if they have not compression set but since they are so inexpensive, I replace all of them. Some other key wear items in the Penske include the piston band expander ring which is a thin section o ring that provides outward pressure on the carbon filled Teflon wear band on your damper piston and the floating piston O ring that is also a sliding part.

It makes sense to take apart your valving stack since all the shims can trap some debris and potentially case the shock not to perform as well as it could. With the shims off, I check each one for wear and to see if they have any deformation or burning on them,. If there are problems, the shims should be changed (again this is a problem we see with high mile shocks that have not been cared for). After all that, I run the shock on a damper dynamometer to ensure proper function.

A typical rebuild of a shock like the your Penske, most shops should charge you about $120-$175 total to do all this work (that assumes the shock is in decent condition and did not need major parts). Really a quite good value I think. It is possible to carry out that kind of work as a home mechanic with some determination and a few special tools. For the time it takes, it is likely a lot more practical to send your shock to a good specialist shop that is properly equipped unless you are really into the DIY experience.

When your shock is out, clean and inspect the bearings in your linkage system, a little cleaning and grease and that stuff will last incredibly long. If bad, it really isn't too bad to replace the bad parts. Don't forget your forks and steering bearings. The suspension components are what make the bike feel and work great.

Compared to a car shock that cost $30 at K-mart the high end motorcycle dampers are like some NASA or Formula one part. We built a set of shocks for my sons car that he uses for Autocross. Lots of those enthusiasts will spend $1000 a corner to have Ohlins or Penske shocks on their cars as well. At least we only need one

Best information I have seen on this subject! Thanks Rick.

I am planning a major service on the FJR during the winter months. It will include disassembly of the front end for fork oil, seals and bushings. Will do the steering head at the same time. I think I may attempt the Penske shock on my own; especially if I can find some specific "how-to" information and a reasonably local parts supplier. Of course, I will disassemble and lube all pivot points while I'm in there. For me, its not so much about the time and saving some $$$, but a desire to learn about the bike. Plan to do an engine valve check and some other stuff as well.

Ross