All these modifications on FJRs?

[Control 1]

So I've narrowed my choices for the next bike to either an ST1300 or an FJR. With the used STs on the market, I see that most people leave them stock, more or less, with regard to the engine's performance. But with the FJRs, almost all the used ones have a Power Commander, etc. Why? Is the bike fairly mis-behaved in the stock config? Or is it just that the FJR crowd is a little more "sportbikish" than the ST guys? I ask because, all other things being equal, I would generally shy away from a bike that's been modified from stock config with different fuel injection programming, aftermarket exhausts, etc. ( I don't want a loud bike, I want a quiet FAST bike).

 

[motoxr124]

Most of us re-map with a power commander because most street legal bikes imported into the US are mapped pretty lean. The lean mixture causes herky jerky behavior at low RPM levels. This can be corrected w/o modication by feathering the clutch. I went the PC way because when I travel in a small town at slow speeds, I don't to be clutching my way through. With the PC, I can release the throttle and clutch in first gear and travel 10 mph. The PC is not a mod for higher HP or more torque. For me, smooth is fast. Hope that helps

 

[escapefjrtist]

Most of it is personal choice and trying to tame the somewhat snatchy off idle FI response. With a few tweaks, the stock bike can be made to work just fine w/o the mileage penalty of a power commander. If you're looking at a late model FJR, say '08 and up they run well right out of the box.

I'm with you, I would never buy a piped and PC'd used bike.

--G

 

[joebiodiesel]

Honda uses a very sophisticated fuel injection system on their bike. ?The Yamaha one is REALLY primitive by comparison... but so is every other bike as well. I've installed and started fooling with a PCIII to get rid of a hesitation at low throttle openings. I am not doing it to try to make the bike more powerful.

I looked at an awful lot of bikes before gettin my FJR. I'd have no problem buying a Honda if they actually made them for people over 6 feet tall. There is just no leg room on them though. If you want a Sport Tourer, and you have long legs, the FJR is the best bike out there. There are a ton of other things I love about my bike too. The FI Mapping...I'm not fond of though.

Joe

 

[Mogambo]

So I've narrowed my choices for the next bike to either an ST1300 or an FJR. With the used STs on the market, I see that most people leave them stock, more or less, with regard to the engine's performance. But with the FJRs, almost all the used ones have a Power Commander, etc. Why? Is the bike fairly mis-behaved in the stock config? Or is it just that the FJR crowd is a little more "sportbikish" than the ST guys? I ask because, all other things being equal, I would generally shy away from a bike that's been modified from stock config with different fuel injection programming, aftermarket exhausts, etc. ( I don't want a loud bike, I want a quiet FAST bike).

I have an 06 and no Power Commander and I'm fine with it. I had an 04 and had a PC on it and it was fine too. I put the PC on it because it had been discussed so much I thought, what the heck. When I traded it in on the 06 I never felt driven to spend the bucks on the PC. Quite frankly I'm pretty happy with it. I do slow parking lot drills and have no issues. It's not as smooth as my Goldwing, but it is also I different kind of animal.

If I had a bunch of money to spend, and didn't have a daughter in college, I might once a again say what the heck. I don't, but I am quite happy with my FJR just the way it is. Of course I also always buy wine that is on sale and never exceed 10.00 a bottle and I'm happy.

 

[bramfrank]

I suspect the question might have had a couple of words added to it for clarity, because most of us don't modify the bikle with PCs. Most of us don;t release the throttle return spring and from a mechanical perspective most of us simply ride out machines the way they came, though perhaps with a few gadgests added to them (cruise and such).

Perhaps it should have been something like; why do those of you who remap the FI do so?

 

[carlson_mn]

My bike ran perfect stock and the PC3 can be taken out all it does is connect in series between a stock wiring harness. No reason to be afraid of an FJR that has aftermarket exhaust can on it. It's literally the mod with the least change to the bike other than sound, some are quiet too. A windshield changes the bike more, seriously.

 

[pcarnut]

I've had both the ST and currently the FJR. The Honda is carb equpped not FI and carburets perfectly as is, no adjustments needed except maybe a good TB sync. My 07 FJR has the PCV w/ Autotune and is close the the ST now but not perfect, however I can live with it. That being said, the FJR handles far better and just plain works better in my opinion. It's better looking, faster, more nimble and lighter. And I would say probably a little easier to work on. Best of luck, good bikes either way.

 

[SkooterG]

I've had both the ST and currently the FJR. The Honda is carb equpped not FI and carburets perfectly as is,

ST1300? You might want to check your facts on that.

 

[rfespinosa]

My FJR is mechanically stock and it runs fine. I also have a ZX 14 and I installed a Two Brothers full exhaust system on it, and did not remap the fuel with a PC, and it runs great just like that. I believe the use of a PC or any fuel remap is really a personal preference and not something needed to make the bike run better under normal circumstances.

 

[fljab]

My '09A runs great with no PC with the exception of it stalls sometimes at lights. The dealer adjusted it @ the 400 mile check and it's better, but still does it on occasion. I need to research it a bit better and tweak it some more and I'm sure it will go away.

Lots of great deals on used ST1300's tho for sure; I looked at them as well as C14's before I bought my FJR.

 

[garyahouse]

Good grief

After reading some of these posts, I'm hoping we're not hearing more from the minority on this issue. I don't doubt that some have had problems. Every manufacturer knows that some of its bikes will have issues; after all they ARE machines. Things break and get out of adjustment on occasion. But looking at the design of the bike and it's overall reliability, I think I can safely say that several of the problems listed in the posts above are rare... real rare. It's a fact that most FJR owners don't modify their FI systems. I'm one of them. I have a bone stock 05 ABS. It runs just fine. Every day, in any temperature, at any RPM, it pulls cleanly from any rpm without a fuss... better than anything I've ever owned. Though I enjoy reading about those who are willing to spend hundreds to undo EPA mandated leanness at lower RPM's, or just want to have a little more power or noise (or both), that blue monster in my garage has all the power I could ever want. 90% of the time, I don't use what I have. I don't need a more sophisticated system; sometimes simpler is better. Light weight, reliability, and simplicity along with great performance for a reasonable price: these are the trump cards for me. The FJR has the performance of a sport bike without the weight of a touring bike, but it does both chores just fine. By the way, don't just listen to my opinion, for your best advice, look to the older forum members who've made this forum what it is. They've posted thousands of times on this forum. I've learned to respect what they say.

One very happy FJR owner

Gary

darksider #44

 

[Aasland]

To answer your question ... many of us with pre-2008 FJR's felt that the "off-on" throttle transition is too abrupt for smooth and spirited cornering. This is corroborated by some research performed by joebiodiesel, showing that the FJR's fuel injection actually cuts off all the fuel on decel. When not cornering, or when riding around town etc. it's fine.

To say that the problem doesn't exist ignores that so many of us spend hard earned cash to overcome it. Claiming it is a matter of learning to live it, or adjusting how one applies the throttle, underscores that we make different demands on the bikes and have different riding styles. You'd think after 50k I'd figure it out ... but when I'm thinking about head and body position, lines, lean angle, traction, etc. I don't want to be wondering when the "lurch" will hit as I get on the throttle, and whether I have enough traction to manage it. The "lurch" effectively reduces the "envelope" a point or so ... i.e. when I want to corner at 8/10'th pace, the "lurch" means I'm really at 8/9'th pace.

There are couple guys here who have added the PC to improve power, and they have done so in conjunction with headers, exhaust, airbox mod's etc. In all my years of riding and wrenching I've learned that naturally aspirated engines don't get much more power from changing the engine management programming.

I've had a few Honda's and can say without a doubt that Honda makes the best fuel injection on the mass market. Thirteen years ago the VFR was perfect - yet today, Yammie and Suzuki and Kawasaki use multiple butterflies to try to get things smooth. I even tried a PCII on the VFR and the improvement was hardly discernable. My ten year old Prelude is soooo much more refined than our 2005 Subaru.

When I purchased my FJR I was also looking at the ST1300, after having been on a VFR nearly a decade, and considerable time on an ST1100. But the ST1300's superior fuel injection could not make up for the FJR's superior handling nor lower price. I couldn't overlook that, by some accounts, the ST1300 puts out more heat than even the 2004 FJR's, and the high-speed stability issues.

 

[NMRoadRunner]

It's not so much as the FJR is lacking in this area, as the type people who are riding these FJR's. Our ridership is largly a high tech group, what with GPS, SPOT, tuned exhaust, custom seats, electric winshields, Com systems ect..ect. And we have money to spend on that type of stuff! So we do, well most of them do anyway. My bike is largley stock, stock seat, stock pipes. I do run a Vstream and helirisers, but thats about it. And it makes me very happy!

 

[wfooshee]

I put the PC on mine simply so I could load the smoothness map. The off-on lurch was too much for me, pansy-boy that I am. I mnade no attempt to hotrod the bike, simply loaded a map that was designed and built specifically for smoothness, and it works. There is a mileage penalty, though, for sure.

 

[Bounce]

Perhaps it should have been something like; why do those of you who remap the FI do so?

because i do it on all my vehicles. the map that comes with the vehicle is a compromise (at best) with EPA numbers being the primary focus. as EPA tightens the choke collar on mfgrs, those numbers cause environments that often achieve a goal that is mutually exclusive with performance, engine longevity, or MPG (or combinations of those). if you've ever done baseline pulls on dynos with many of the EPA/OEM maps, you'd probably be appalled at how horrible they are (graphs that look like roller coasters aren't good).

Remember that the OEM map is based on dynoing one (or a few) sample motors and plugging it into the entire production run (with its manufacturing tolerances along the way). That means the OEM map may work for all the engines that come off the line but it's not optimal.

A little custom mapping with an eye toward daily drivability (instead of simple bench racing bragging rights) can make big improvements on nearly any new(ish) performance vehicle.

Here are the before & after graphs on my most recent effort.

Factory baseline

After custom tune

My ten year old Prelude is soooo much more refined than our 2005 Subaru.

so get a 2011!

 

[wmadoty]

Take a stock one for a test ride and see what you think. Do some in town riding, and some highway riding. Do the same thing on the ST. Pick one! It is hard to make a bad choice between the two.

 

[Control 1]

Take a stock one for a test ride and see what you think. Do some in town riding, and some highway riding. Do the same thing on the ST. Pick one! It is hard to make a bad choice between the two.

Yes, that is the best advise. Recently I had the opportunity to rent an ST 1300 for 24 hours, and was able to put about 500 miles on. Have not had a chance to rent an FJR yet, but intend to do so when the work schedule allows.

 

[Big Sky]

My '03 was surging a little when I got it with 1,300 miles in Feb. '03. A throttle body sync took care of that. No problem with snatch, lurch or any other descriptive. Have not done Barbarian mod, unwound throttle spring, no PC ... and it works very satisfactorily 8 years and 72,000 miles in. And the FJR is not my first bike. I've been riding since 1978 and have ridden a lot of different machines, including many Hondas. My opinion, in my instance: stock is just fine.