American Cagers & "Some" Bikers

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OK yeah, if there are multiple lanes I can see having to use the blinkers.

We have a few like that here, but what they do is mark the incoming lanes for which exit you'll be taking. So, (hopefully) you are already in the correct lane once you are in the Rotary.

But I think you blokes invented the foolish things, so you are surely more experienced in navigating them. Even if you are doing it in the wrong direction. :p

 
Wow, it seems like threads of this type are turned into

"Rant about anything and everything you want to rant about threads..."

GR brings up some very good and valid points. It's not a rant about "anything"... it's a rant about some very valid and obvious things... Let's just stick with one of them..
The thread is about crappy drivers and not following traffic rules. I haven't seen an off topic post yet. But it won't be long, so just wait a minute or two... ;)

 
Why are American cagers and even some bikers so bad? Why do they do the things they do? Is there no common sense or common courtesy anymore? Does anyone even know the basic laws of driving/riding anymore?

Left Lane Confusion!

Is it so hard to realize that the far left lane on any multi-lane road is and has always been the fast or passing lane only? So if the speed limit is 65mph...but you only feel like driving/riding at 52mph...fine, no problem...BUT GET YOUR ASS OVER IN THE RIGHT LANE!

Courtesy Pull Offs!

When your riding the mountains in a mini-van, motorhome or comfort crusier and you see 8 ST bikers bunched up behind you for the last 13 miles on a double yellow line road in the twisties...those little paved patches of blacktop that you see on the side of the road every couple miles or so, you know the ones that say COURTESY PULL OFF!!!...those are meant for you! And even the ones that have no signage...THOSE ARE STILL MEANT FOR YOU!

My Time is more important than yours!

Your riding down a 2 lane country road and you see a car at the end of his driveway...you get closer and nothing happens...you look in your rearview mirrors and there is nobody behind you for miles...you get closer and the car is still at the end of the driveway...then all of the sudden he finally pulls out...you drop your speed from 65mph down to 18mph and come right up to his rear bumper because of his last second need to pull out onto the road. Then he proceeds to drive 37mph on the 65mph road from that point on. If you want to drive slow, your in no rush, you have no where important to be...then why could you not simply wait another 3 seconds and pull out after I passed since there was no traffic behind me and have the road all to yourself? I don't get it!?

Rearview Mirrors!

We might as well just have them all removed because nobody seems to use them anymore.

Turn Signals!

Ditto...see above.

Other Bikers!

You'd think since we're all bikers/motorcyclist (choose your category) that another biker would be familiar with the same issues as you since they ride too. So why is it that when you sometimes get behind a slow moving cruiser crowd (Typically cruisers but not always!) they sometimes refuse to use the courtesy pull offs themselves? Pride, they don't like being passed, they want to "force" you to ride "their ride"? So you finally have a straight away and you pass the whole lot of them and then they speed up to make it more difficult for you to pass. No bikers/motorcyclist are not all the same and we're not on the same team apparently!

-----------

Me: I check my rearview mirrors all the time. When a faster car/bike is behind me I get over and let him pass. I use my turn signals to let others know both in front & behind me what my intentions are. I'm not usually holding anybody up in the mountains but when a balls to the walls sportbiker comes up on me I use the courtesy pull offs. I've never been confused by the fast lane/slow lane concept. I don't pull out right in front of people.

I'm not perfect but I would like to think I have a measure of common sense & common courtesy. I sure wish more felt the same as I do! <_<
Plagerism, you copied this word for word from the Connecticut drivers manual? Did'nt ya? ;)

 
Why are American cagers and even some bikers so bad? Why do they do the things they do? Is there no common sense or common courtesy anymore? Does anyone even know the basic laws of driving/riding anymore?

Left Lane Confusion!

Courtesy Pull Offs!

My Time is more important than yours!

Rearview Mirrors!

Turn Signals!

Other Bikers!

-----------
(snipped for brevity)

Wow, it seems like threads of this type are turned into

"Rant about anything and everything you want to rant about threads..."

GR brings up some very good and valid points. It's not a rant about "anything"... it's a rant about some very valid and obvious things... Let's just stick with one of them..
The thread is about crappy drivers and not following traffic rules. I haven't seen an off topic post yet. But it won't be long, so just wait a minute or two... ;)
I'd have to disagree. There were some specific points made in the first post... not a general "crappy drivers". the distinction may not be obvious! but it's a lot harder to address "crappy drivers" than it is to address specific things... like those brought up in the original post.

 
Why is it that we accept the incompetency? why do we accept the "I don't give a sheet about anyone but myself" attitude?
Considering I carry on a daily basis I don't trust myself to get into confrontations anymore. In my younger years I tried to

get rude people to wake up.(Yes there were sheetheads 30 years ago.) At some point I realized in a court of law I probably

would look like the aggressor. For me there is something worst than the jerk that slows me up, that's the tailgater.

 
Many of the locals here in the NC mountains pull over to let bikes pass...the tourists, not so much.

The other day I was zinging up 226A, a twisty motorcycle road, and spied a cop a couple of turns in front of me. I slowed down to the speed limit but quickly caught up because he was driving below the limit. He pulled over to let me by and I continued my zinging up the mountain. I had my RD on and he didn't light me up. Figured he must be a fellow biker of the sportier persuasion.

 
Left Lane Confusion!

Is it so hard to realize that the far left lane on any multi-lane road is and has always been the fast or passing lane only? So if the speed limit is 65mph...but you only feel like driving/riding at 52mph...fine, no problem...BUT GET YOUR ASS OVER IN THE RIGHT LANE!
This one's my pet peave and, maybe it's my imagination, but it seems way worse in in your state. I've been flying into ATL and driving to either Macon or Augusta every other week for the last year or so. I see people driving at or below the speed limit in the left lane without another car in sight. Pull up behind them and they're oblivious. It is getting so common that it seems like people don't know more than don't care.

 
Left Lane Confusion!

Is it so hard to realize that the far left lane on any multi-lane road is and has always been the fast or passing lane only? So if the speed limit is 65mph...but you only feel like driving/riding at 52mph...fine, no problem...BUT GET YOUR ASS OVER IN THE RIGHT LANE!
This one's my pet peave and, maybe it's my imagination, but it seems way worse in in your state. I've been flying into ATL and driving to either Macon or Augusta every other week for the last year or so. I see people driving at or below the speed limit in the left lane without another car in sight. Pull up behind them and they're oblivious. It is getting so common that it seems like people don't know more than don't care.
It's an EPIDEMIC down here!!! I'm not a native Georgian but I've lived here for 13yrs. I've never seen this where they have the complete opposite mindset that the left lane is the slow cruising lane, where they don't check their rearview mirrors to see the line of cars they are holding back by basically running a rolling roadblock with the car in the lane next to them and they seem to be completely oblivious to their surroundings! :angry:

Also what's funny about the south is the lack of using their horns. As if it's too impolite to ever honk at someone...but it's not impolite to force everyone to drive 10mph under the speed limit. :blink: I don't know how many times I've been at a redlight behind a car and the light turns green and they are texting or just off in la-la land and they just set there. NOBODY will honk their horn to tell them to go. I've actually seen this happen where they sit through the entire light cycle and nobody behind them makes a peep....except for me! LOL. If your not moving within a couple seconds I give a short beep just to let them know it's turned green in case their not paying attention. If that doesn't work I'm laying on the Damn horn until their asses move. People are just generally clueless.

Conversely there's been a few times it was me that didn't realize the light turned green and someone gave me a short beep to remind me and I was glad they did and I'll raise my hand to thank them. It's no big deal!

 
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:huh:

Gonna have to 'splain this one to me. We have lots of them (we call them a Rotary). But I have never used a turn signal in one.

Why would you? Once in the rotary you can only turn right. So if a vehicle has its right turn signal on, how would you know which of the many right turns he's making?
Ostensibly the right turn indicator is to let others know you are exiting the circle, so that they can enter, instead of guessing as to your intentions. You should turn your indicator on when the next exit is the one you intend to take.

These are main rules which are generally universal around the world:

  • Go counterclockwise unless you're in a country where they drive on the wrong side of the road. For the rest of these points I'll assume counterclockwise, as it pertains to left/right use of indicators.
  • Vehicles in the circle have right of way. Except in Greece, then those entering have right of way :blink:
  • Vehicles in the inner lane have right of way to move to the outside.
  • If you are taking the first available exit, turn on your right blinker before you enter the circle.
  • Otherwise, turn on your right blinker when the next exit is the one you're taking.


There is one more rule which was recently added, at least in Norway, but which I rarely see used:

  • If you are taking the last available exit, turn on your left blinker before you enter the circle, then change it to the right blinker when your exit is the next one.


Here in MN, our DVS driving handbook lists how to drive in a circle but has no mention of indicator usage. Nor is there a mention of using indicators at ordinary traffic lights either ... but there is a blurb about using blinkers when turning off one road onto another, which applies to circles.

Besides, it doesn't really matter. The driver already in the circle has the complete right of way. That's really all you need to know. And I never pull out in front of another vehicle just because they have their turn signal on. Too many cars (and especially bikes) drive around with one flashing away for miles and miles...
But is DOES matter! True, "that's all you really need to know" to safely negotiate a circle, but you need to know how to properly drive in one in order to make the circle effective.

And that's the problem, and why traffic circles in the US slow down traffic and create accidents rather than aiding the smooth flow of traffic. Until recently US drivers were never taught how to properly drive in one, they are few and far between, and since nobody properly signals there are no reinforcements or examples of how to do it properly. The result is that Americans approach circles with trepidation, slow down (or even stop at the entrance) and are generally bewildered as they enter them. Like you, they don't trust that anyone else is correctly indicating what they plan to do. Seeing how Americans don't have the driving skills to make circles effective, an argument can be made that they are traffic hindrances and the tools of the devil (this logic can also be applied to the vastly superior metric system.... :p )

Compare that with busy European cities, in particular the large ones in London or in Paris, where they have immense amounts of traffic at high speed with little or no slowing down of the flow, at least until traffic becomes overwhelmingly heavy ... at which point ordinary traffic signals would have clogged up long before. The difference is that European drivers are engaged, driving is generally regarded as something they take pride in doing well, they know how to negotiate the circle, and trust that others also follow the rules.

Then put one American in there, trying to enter a circle, not trusting the blinkers of the exiting cars so they don't pull into the circle when they obviously can. When approaching cars don't have their signals on, the Americans will guess whether they might be exiting and then pull in and cut them off. This disrupts and slows down traffic and confuses other drivers.

If Americans learned to properly use their blinkers, traffic would flow smoother, there would be less accidents, and when traveling abroad, we wouldn't be viewed as buffoon drivers barely fit for the Legoland go-karts.

 
... I've never seen this where they have the complete opposite mindset that the left lane is the slow cruising lane, ...
I thought about one of the reasons why this happens:

While in the Left Lane, they don't have to Change Lanes... and better able to Text/Call whatever without really driving if they were in the other lanes.

If I have the time and find one of these types, I'll get ahead of them on the FJR and Slow down to the point they have to move over... this may take a couple of miles. While this is happening I have seen the flying fists on the dash with white knuckles until the brain kicks in.

Then when they get to almost pass me, I nail it to about 80mph and they are swarmed by cars and I am not.

 
Then put one American in there, trying to enter a circle, not trusting the blinkers of the exiting cars so they don't pull into the circle when they obviously can.
See, that's the thing. I don't care how competent and reliable signalers the drivers are in XYZ country, or state are. I'm on a bike, I'm not pulling out in front of some car just because they are signalling that they are making a turn. Cause if it's wrong, I'm banged up bad, or dead.

As I said, we've had traffic circles (rotarys) at major intersection for a long time here in New England. They actually work pretty well. Certainly better than having a set of lights at the same intersection. The traffic doesn't flow at the same speed that it does between the intersections, but it's a whole lot better than sitting for multiple light cycles.

The "key" we always joked about as teens driving the rotaries in Boston is; Once you are in the circle never make eye contact with any driver trying to get in. It's a sign of weakness and they will immediately take advantage of you. :p

To get back to the OP's situation, one thing I've come across a few times is someone that is intentionally driving the speed limit and think that everyone else should obey the speed laws too. So they drive the limit in the left lane, or they drive the limit on a two lane road, and when you go to pass them (either left or right) they speed up to try and keep you behind them. Doesn't work with the FJR though.

Zoom! Whawazzat? ;)

 
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Left Lane Confusion!

Is it so hard to realize that the far left lane on any multi-lane road is and has always been the fast or passing lane only? So if the speed limit is 65mph...but you only feel like driving/riding at 52mph...fine, no problem...BUT GET YOUR ASS OVER IN THE RIGHT LANE!
This one's my pet peave and, maybe it's my imagination, but it seems way worse in in your state. I've been flying into ATL and driving to either Macon or Augusta every other week for the last year or so. I see people driving at or below the speed limit in the left lane without another car in sight. Pull up behind them and they're oblivious. It is getting so common that it seems like people don't know more than don't care.
+1000 here...I travel all over the country, and have been witness to different driving habits...I haven't seen it much in GA, but AZ is the rolling roadblock capital. I see people driving right next to each other every damn day. What's worse is the ones who aren't exactly next to each other, but are spaced just enough to make you think they will be moving over, but then stay put. I'm always on a bike, so am usually the faster vehicle in these situations, but I don't such a big ego that I won't move out of the way of someone faster.

 
SO much to choose from, I hardly know where to start. Ever pull one of those slinky toy dachshunds? The front goes about 5 feet before the back starts to move at all. How about DRIVERS who leave a red light like that? But this one was really bugging me in a recent trip to my north. For some reason, it seems less common in California, but once I crossed into Oregon it began happening ALL THE TIME.

You're coming up pretty fast on a couple of big trucks. Except for them and you, the road is empty. Two lanes of traffic. The road begins to climb. Just as you're ready to stream past, the rear guy pulls out to start a pass! His closing speed is maybe half a mile per hour, as both slow down to crest the hill. What an a-hole! And so damn MANY of 'em. :angry2:

 
SO much to choose from, I hardly know where to start. Ever pull one of those slinky toy dachshunds? The front goes about 5 feet before the back starts to move at all. How about DRIVERS who leave a red light like that? But this one was really bugging me in a recent trip to my north. For some reason, it seems less common in California, but once I crossed into Oregon it began happening ALL THE TIME.

You're coming up pretty fast on a couple of big trucks. Except for them and you, the road is empty. Two lanes of traffic. The road begins to climb. Just as you're ready to stream past, the rear guy pulls out to start a pass! His closing speed is maybe half a mile per hour, as both slow down to crest the hill. What an a-hole! And so damn MANY of 'em. :angry2:
First... I don't disagree with you Mike, I've been pissed off by the same thing too.

I'd add though that this thread, and other specific comments can be helpful. It can help us to maybe re-think our everyday perceptions. Maybe... there's more to the situations than we realize? possible?

In the case of the truck (semi) drivers... you know these rigs can only pass at about 1/2 mile an hour faster? I mean that's all they got... they got no more, even with the pedal to the metal.

Also... for them... it's a business. It's money in their pockets, right? I mean for them, time is money. The longer it takes to get the load delivered, the less they make. The more over schedule, the less in their pockets. So, given that, and the fact they know it's not a "money" inconvenience for you... is it a surprise they sometimes pull out?

So, knowing that every gallon of diesel is gonna cost them, knowing that they are counting in hundreds if not thousands of miles every day, it all adds up, to them. You're looking at one time, they're looking at one of 50, or a 100, that day... it takes a lot of skill and patience on their part (that's what makes them pro's). Never forget though, they can, and do. make mistakes. Not often thankfully.

Try this, next time u come up behind a semi, close to the one in front of him, and you're booking. Slow down, flash your brights to let him know to 'over take' in front of you. Remember, this is their "lively hood" (way of making a living).

You'll have made a friend Bro, take my word for it.

sorry for the rant, I do that sometimes ;)

 
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Az, every word you wrote is true--I even used to be in that business, at least enough to be familiar with the difficulties and problems big rig drivers face.

But having said that, and in the exact circumstances I described, I don't have much sympathy for anybody who looks in his mirror and sees somebody coming up fast and almost on top of him (or worse yet, who DOESN'T check the mirror) and pulls out instead of waiting two or three more seconds to let the other guy go. Goes back to the (un)common courtesy issue raised in post no. 1.

Just to be sure I'm clear, I'm adding, there's always some cushion between two vehicles moving down the road--and I'm talking about the two trucks. If the second driver has closed so incredibly tight on the guy in front of him that he absolutely has to pull out right then and can't wait just a couple extra heartbeats--on an almost-empty road, well, he's not doing it very well.

 
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Az, every word you wrote is true--I even used to be in that business, at least enough to be familiar with the difficulties and problems big rig drivers face.

But having said that, and in the exact circumstances I described, I don't have much sympathy for anybody who looks in his mirror and sees somebody coming up fast and almost on top of him (or worse yet, who DOESN'T check the mirror) and pulls out instead of waiting two or three more seconds to let the other guy go. Goes back to the (un)common courtesy issue raised in post no. 1.

Just to be sure I'm clear, I'm adding, there's always some cushion between two vehicles moving down the road--and I'm talking about the two trucks. If the second driver has closed so incredibly tight on the guy in front of him that he absolutely has to pull out right then and can't wait just a couple extra heartbeats--on an almost-empty road, well, he's not doing it very well.
Agree completely Mike. Ea situation has aspects that will make it unique.

I'd only say be aware, these Semi (lorry) drivers are doing it for a living, we're doing it for fun. My experience has been that the vast vast vast majority of them will do the right thing, if you cut them some slack.

that's all I got, best wishes :)

 
As long as we're ranting...

The guy I hate most of all is the car behind the slow lead vehicle. This is the guy who rides right on the back bumper of the slow lead car but lacks the guts to pass, will not pass, will never pass but adds to the difficulty of the vehicle behind him to pass. Many times the slow first car is an elderly person or for whatever reason needs to go slow. But that jerk right on his back bumper should either pass or back off enough that I have room to pass one vehicle at a time instead of two or more.

 
I'd only say be aware, these Semi (lorry) drivers are doing it for a living, we're doing it for fun.
Gotta chime in here before this little nugget passes. This little bit of sentiment don't wash with me.

Yes, truck have chosen an occupation that primarily takes place on the public roadways. so what. When I'm driving between jobs I'm on the clock too, so they are inhibiting my job. Does that mean that I have more right to the roadway than other road users? Say, more than someone going away on vacation? :unsure: I've certainly never felt that way. Just because someone is trying to make money doesn't give them the right to inconvenience everyone else, IMO.

I also fail to see how slowing down a mph (and saving fuel) by not passing another truck that is essentially going the same speed is bad for the driver's business. In fact, by following behind the first truck their fuel mileage would be better due to the draft effect. If there was a big differential in speed they would pass quickly and would not be monopolizing the road, which is what Mike's rant was about here.

 
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