Another motorcyclist dies

[weekend rider]

This happened on 8-15-07 in the early afternoon. The rider was comming from work,he worked at the UC Davis about 10 miles from Woodland Ca. He was a Harley rider, not that makes any difference, And he lived two house down the street from me. About 3 years ago His father owned a small used car sales lot in Sacramento Ca. He was working on a Saturday and two guys wanted to buy a car so he went with them for a test ride in the car they were interested in. The two buyers decided they wanted the car for free and killed him and left him on the side of the freeway. Their trial is about to begin for their crime.

Now the son was riding his bike from work to home ang got with in a half of a mile from his house when this accident happened. The road he was traveling on is a county road called rd. 98 and used by all kids of transportation up and down the road.

From all the information known at this time, he was riding behind a cement truck heading north his estimated speed was 70mph the truck's speed I do not know. He was going to pass the truck and pulled into the on comming lane to start his pass. Now a side road makes a "t" interection into road he was on rd.98. At the interection there was a car a toyota that was going to make a left hand turn which would put her direcrly in line heading south for a head on collision with the bike in the same lane. She had to be unaware of the bike position because he was unable to be seen because he was in a blind spot and on the left side of the truck at the rear of the truck no one would have known he was there. The bike hit the car head on at appox. 70mph and the car's est. speed was 55 mph he did not survive and the lady in the car received serious injuries. I do not think any kind of gear would have saved him in this type of accident or helmet. The helmet that he was wearing according to the paper was not dot approved.

An accident this close to home and being a neighbor is getting to close to home and really and really makes you think not

if or maybe but when?

I know the risks and I will keep on riding because that is what I do and enjoy

weekend rider looking

 

[Jetmaker737]

I wonder if the guy would have been paying attention could he have seen the car at the intersection and chose not to pass at that point?

 

[madmike2]

I wonder if the guy would have been paying attention could he have seen the car at the intersection and chose not to pass at that point?

It used to be illegal (because its unsafe) to pass any vehicle while crossing an intersection. You'd think he knew the road and could see the lines (usually, in CA, a solid line on your side) indicating an intersection. IIRC, County Road 98 runs North-South through the farm country...isn't that Pedrick Road when it crosses I-80? Its pretty wide open country until you get North of Rd. 25A and near Woodland.

Still, a very sad day, fatal for one and tragic for another (and the truck driver got to witnes the entire ordeal).

 

[Kevin Daly]

something doesnt add up. if she turned left and accelerated to 55 by the time of the impact?? In that time he could have accelerated around a truck or had the time to ditch it. THis is not to mention that the lady accelerating the car should have seen the lights of the bike and slowed up enough to let him complete the pass. For that matter, why didnt the truck slow down to shorten the pass time once he saw the problem unfolding?

Tragety no less, but for me I want to understand why things happen and this just doesnt make sense IMHO sounds like a conspiracy by "the gods"

 

[rogdeb]

:sadsmiley:

 

[DaSpyda]

Another case of excessive speed - already going 70?? On a two lane road?

 

[Jetmaker737]

Another case of excessive speed - already going 70?? On a two lane road?

That may or may not be a problem, depending on the road, conditions, etc.

 

[cougar8000]

I am with kevin on this one. It just does not make any sense. Why neither of them slow down?

Yes, it is stupid and it might kill you every time you try to pass at the intersection. And intersection is when your road crosses with what ever else be it a driveway or a street.

Very sad, but does nto sound like a complete story.

Another case of excessive speed - already going 70?? On a two lane road?

70 on a country road is highly an excessive speed in my opinion. Now, not knowing the speed limit and an actual surrounding of an area we might as well leave speed out of the picture.

 

[rayban]

Actually, I put the fault squarely on the cager for one reason...

NEVER pull onto a road when traffic coming towards you is too large to see all of the road beyond it (even if it's double-yellow and nobody should be coming, which wasn't even the case here). The very reason they don't make every crossing area solid lined is that it's the crossing traffic's responsibility to watch for traffic...

If she couldn't see the road behind and diagonally behind that cement truck due to it's size, she should have just waited for it to go by before pulling out. She's looking left, can't see behind that truck, can't tell if there might be vehicles passing since it's a broken yellow, she is 100% at fault for pulling out to make that left turn and, as a result, putting her going squarely into the path of the hidden passing vehicle once she reached her target destination lane.

When making a turn like that, the responsibility is almost completely upon the shoulders of the driver making the turn to ensure their target zone is clear of all reasonable traffic and hazards before executing that maneuver that puts them into the flow, especially since they have the ability to just sit and wait for the right time.

I got T-boned in a similar but different situation on my old Nighthawk while still in Law Enforcement. I was coming off duty the morning after a tornado had hit our county and was enroute to the county PD to see if there was anything I could do to help. I was on a 4-lane divided highway. Approaching a cross street where cross traffic had stop signs and the concrete divider was broken open to allow cross traffic to go across our highway, I found myself in the right-most of our direction's two lanes, properly spaced back from a van doing the speed limit. A co-ed in the EXACT same position as the above-described driver claims she never saw me, only the van, and as a result, began towards me attempting to cross our lanes to reach the opposite direction lanes to my left. I saw her coming at the last second, gunned it enough to make her miss crushing my leg, but she still knocked the bike out from under me. I went over the bars and started sliding ahead and to the left. I was stopped when my torso impacted the point where the concrete lane dividers started back up (at a steep incline from the roadway). I impacted the divider chest-first and rolled a few revolutions up onto it's incline before coming to a stop, hanging across it like a rag doll. My full-face was scraped up and my uniform was toast, but in the end, nothing was broken. The fault was 100% hers for not being 100% clear that her target and the path to get there was traffic and hazard free. (You should have heard her freak when the medic opened up my jacket and she saw the badge. I heard "OH MY GOD, I HIT A COP" and then was leaning over apologizing, at which point I mumbled to the medic from inside my helmet "get her the f--k out of here...")

Same thing in the above, IMHO. If the guy was legally passing, regardless of whether he was going 10 over or not, she was 100% at fault for not being reasonably sure that no traffic might be coming. She COULDN'T, due to the size of the obstacle. The proper call was for her to wait for the large vehicle, and its blind spots, to go by before going into the road.

My deepest sympathies to your neighbor. Another fallen rider is one rider too many.

 

[Last Chance]

Actually, I put the fault squarely on the cager for one reason...
NEVER pull onto a road when traffic coming towards you is too large to see all of the road beyond it (even if it's double-yellow and nobody should be coming, which wasn't even the case here). The very reason they don't make every crossing area solid lined is that it's the crossing traffic's responsibility to watch for traffic...

If she couldn't see the road behind and diagonally behind that cement truck due to it's size, she should have just waited for it to go by before pulling out. She's looking left, can't see behind that truck, can't tell if there might be vehicles passing since it's a broken yellow, she is 100% at fault for pulling out to make that left turn and, as a result, putting her going squarely into the path of the hidden passing vehicle once she reached her target destination lane.

When making a turn like that, the responsibility is almost completely upon the shoulders of the driver making the turn to ensure their target zone is clear of all reasonable traffic and hazards before executing that maneuver that puts them into the flow, especially since they have the ability to just sit and wait for the right time.

I got T-boned in a similar but different situation on my old Nighthawk while still in Law Enforcement. I was coming off duty the morning after a tornado had hit our county and was enroute to the county PD to see if there was anything I could do to help. I was on a 4-lane divided highway. Approaching a cross street where cross traffic had stop signs and the concrete divider was broken open to allow cross traffic to go across our highway, I found myself in the right-most of our direction's two lanes, properly spaced back from a van doing the speed limit. A co-ed in the EXACT same position as the above-described driver claims she never saw me, only the van, and as a result, began towards me attempting to cross our lanes to reach the opposite direction lanes to my left. I saw her coming at the last second, gunned it enough to make her miss crushing my leg, but she still knocked the bike out from under me. I went over the bars and started sliding ahead and to the left. I was stopped when my torso impacted the point where the concrete lane dividers started back up (at a steep incline from the roadway). I impacted the divider chest-first and rolled a few revolutions up onto it's incline before coming to a stop, hanging across it like a rag doll. My full-face was scraped up and my uniform was toast, but in the end, nothing was broken. The fault was 100% hers for not being 100% clear that her target and the path to get there was traffic and hazard free. (You should have heard her freak when the medic opened up my jacket and she saw the badge. I heard "OH MY GOD, I HIT A COP" and then was leaning over apologizing, at which point I mumbled to the medic from inside my helmet "get her the f--k out of here...")

Same thing in the above, IMHO. If the guy was legally passing, regardless of whether he was going 10 over or not, she was 100% at fault for not being reasonably sure that no traffic might be coming. She COULDN'T, due to the size of the obstacle. The proper call was for her to wait for the large vehicle, and its blind spots, to go by before going into the road.

My deepest sympathies to your neighbor. Another fallen rider is one rider too many.

Going to be "shared" liability due to his speed. The basic rule in CA is 55 unless otherwise posted. Max I've seen on a "country" road is 65. The estimated speed of 70 makes him partially liable. The Harley, with it's slower acceleration, takes longer to get around vehicles when passing. She had time to make the left turn and get up to 55 before they collided. Maybe with an FJR he would have had the ability to speed up and make the pass. Certainly he could have slowed even quicker than accelerating at any rate. Once again the FJR's superior brakes might have made a difference. Still she will be primarily liable as she was unable to ascertain if there was anyone behind the cement truck and should have waited until she had a clear view of the road. This is a common mistake made by many...They forget about the "little" spaces they can't see, especially the one's small enough to hide a motorcycle!

Sad, I remember his dad's story.

LC

 

[cougar8000]

If speed is 55 unless other wise posted in Ca then yes speed was a factor.

I do not understand why are we putting so much blame on the car? She was able to get to 55 mph in a toyota. Please go rent one and see how long it will take you to get to 55 from the full stop and making a turn.

Sounds like she had more then enough clearance to make a safe turn. IMHO turn had nothing to do with this crash. Looks like a classic Chicken game. No one was willing to slow down and pull over for another. You are forgetting that it takes two to tango. So, let's be honest with our selfs if he was going 70 and she was 55 they were way past the turn and both share the responsibility.

Why no one pulled over we probably will never know. What we do know and can learn from it is to NEVER pass with an intersection coming up. As we teach at MSF YOU are the only one responsible for your own arse. People are people and will make mistakes, it is in your interest to make sure you get out of the way when they do. Once you are dead it really does not matter who was right or wrong.

 

[Rogue]

That really sucks but ............

If speed is 55 unless other wise posted in Ca then yes speed was a factor.
I do not understand why are we putting so much blame on the car? She was able to get to 55 mph in a toyota. Please go rent one and see how long it will take you to get to 55 from the full stop and making a turn.

Sounds like she had more then enough clearance to make a safe turn. IMHO turn had nothing to do with this crash. Looks like a classic Chicken game. No one was willing to slow down and pull over for another. You are forgetting that it takes two to tango. So, let's be honest with our selfs if he was going 70 and she was 55 they were way past the turn and both share the responsibility.

Why no one pulled over we probably will never know. What we do know and can learn from it is to NEVER pass with an intersection coming up. As we teach at MSF YOU are the only one responsible for your own arse. People are people and will make mistakes, it is in your interest to make sure you get out of the way when they do. Once you are dead it really does not matter who was right or wrong.

Gunny!

I've totaled one bike from a cager turning left in front of me and I am so paranoid at intersections that it isn't funny! More so in town but I am 110% alert at all intersections rural or city.

 

[nick]

Very sad ...

Here in England though, not only are we taught NOT to overtake at intersections, for this very reason ( and very few do) I think it is also illegal.

It all comes down to attitude to riding / driving - if you can't see to safely carry out the move, it is not safe and should not be done - I think some blame should also be carried by the car driver too as she also could not see to carry her move out safely either, but two wrongs were needed to make this event happen, and either one could have prevented it with the correct attitude and training...

My feelings go out to those who are left behind with this for the rest of their lives...

Nick

 

[AStar]

For sure a sad day when anyone dies. However If the on coming driver made a left hand turn from a stop sign and accelerated to 55 mph before the accident, I would say that the rider pulled out to pass the truck without knowing what was already in the on coming lane. There might have been two or three bad decisions that day. And if the rider was one mile from his home why would he be passing a truck just prior to his destination.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Here in England though, not only are we taught NOT to overtake at intersections, for this very reason ( and very few do) I think it is also illegal. Very sad ...

Actually I think it is here as well.

 

[weekend rider]

I have to make correction to what was first reported to me. The rider of the motorcycle was not near the intersection he

was about a half mile before the intersection. either way the result was fatal

From what was said to me by my neighbor no one can figure out why he chose to do this. It will remain a mystrey forever

He also taught martial arts for the last 20 yrs plus here in Woodland

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

Sad for the guy, his friends and family.

If the lady could make it to the lane in front of the cement truck, then she clearly made it through her maneuver without messing up right of way. Therefore she was in her lane, bike decided to pass and hit an oncoming car. It's kind of hard for me to blame the cager at all. Sounds like the guy on the bike screwed up.

 

[yamaholic]

Sorry to hear this. I feel horrible for the family. IMO the cager is not at fault. She was in her lane, doing the speed limit. Since she got up to 55, it's obvious that she made the turn WELL in advance of the cement truck. At minimum that's 4 seconds or so (assuming she had a very fast Toyota). More likely (almost definitely) you are looking at 8-12 seconds to get up to speed in the average Toyota and at average accelerate rates. That sounds like a safe turn to me.

IMO if you pass a vehicle and are in the oncoming lane of traffic, YOU are responsible, not the cager coming the other way who just happened to be at hte wrong place/wrong time. Bikers need to take responsibility for see and be seen. We also need to take responsibility for ensuring the road ahead is clear when passing.

Word.

 

[Last Chance]

Sad for the guy, his friends and family.
If the lady could make it to the lane in front of the cement truck, then she clearly made it through her maneuver without messing up right of way. Therefore she was in her lane, bike decided to pass and hit an oncoming car. It's kind of hard for me to blame the cager at all. Sounds like the guy on the bike screwed up.

As noted in my prior post I don't think the cager, or the cement truck has any "legal" liability for this wreck. However, I scan my mirrors every 8-10 seconds in my semi at work. (Also do so in/on my personal vehicles.) Can't say I pick up EVERY dangerous situation approaching from the rear, but I do see 90% + of them. All I can say is it would have been nice if the lady and the cement truck driver had moved over as far to their right as possible. I'm sure there would have been enough room then for even a Harley to fit. Too Bad.

I won't leave the pavement to avoid killing someone (statistically that is when I get KILLED), but I will move over as far a possible in situations like this. BTDT.

LC