Antifreeze: green vs. orange

Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum

Help Support Yamaha FJR Motorcycle Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Another question. Is there a company out there that makes a "ready to pour" 50/50 mix? Seems much easier than trying to figure out how much distilled water and coolant to use.
Okay, I was going to let this go............................but 50/50? (50% antifreeze, 50% distilled water; if you can't do that then you probably shouldn't be changing your own antifreeze.)

If you buy the pre-mixed stuff you're paying extra for water (Even using distilled; they are charging you way too much for them to mix it for you.)

FYI I can, without difficulty, do whatever maint/repairs are needed on a motorcycle, but that's a whole other subject. Mixing 50/50 isn't rocket science.

The question stemmed from laziness by not wanting to figure out the total amount in the system. I just didn't feel like breaking out the manual at the time.

as for you.........yes, let it go. ;)

 
The best thing to do is to buy a gallon of coolant and a gallon of distilled water. Pour half of the coolant into a clean gallon jug of some sort, fill each of the jugs up with distilled water and now you have two gallons of 50/50. Mark the jugs as such and use. Much better to premix before installing instead of trying to pour straight coolant into the system and then guess how much water to add. Mark the jugs 50/50 so you don't forget, BTW.

That is basically why I do NOT recommend ever flushing a system with fresh water as you can never get all the water out and then you have to guess how much coolant to add. Just drain and refill with fresh 50/50. That little bit of old coolant in the system will not hurt a thing since the EG never wears out and you replenished the corrosion inhibitors in the majority of the coolant.

Always use distilled water for maximum protection in the system. Tap water contains minerals that can plate out and contaminate the system and, at best, use of part of the corrosion inhibitor package right from the start. At worst the hard water deposits can cause lime and scale in the system but that would be a very worst case. Distilled water is cheap and easy to find in the super market.

Changing from green silicated coolant to DexCool does NOT render the system unprotected from corrosion for several thousand miles. Nonsense. Silicates plate onto the surface of the cooling system. As they would dissolve or dissipate from the surface during use with DexCool the surface would still be protected by the silicates. As "fresh" aluminum or iron comes to the surface as the silicate dissappears the DexCool OAT corrosion inhibitor would immediately work on the raw metal. There is absolutely no loss in corrosion protection switching to DexCool.

DexCool is an EXCELLENT product and I endorse it highly. Understand, though, that it is not a magic coolant and it does not "cool" better or provide any "better" corrosion protection than conventional green silicated coolants. Both at 99.9% ethyleneglycol anyway so the only difference is the silicates vs. OAT corrosion. Both are quivalent for corrosion protection, just the OAT lasts virutally forever and the silicated coolants need replacing frequently. IF you are changing the coolant yearly or every 2 or even 3 years (24Kto35K miles on a car and 15Kto20K on an aluminum bike engine) then the DexCool really offers no advantage. It will work fine and is an excellent choice. It just won't work any better than conventional coolant. If you are pushing the useful life of a silicated coolant before it will be changed then the DexCool is an excellent choice for extending the service life. Just remember that once the engine was run on silicated coolant the long life feature of the DexCool is severely limited.

Exposure to air does NOT cause the brown sludge associated with problem cases with DexCool. There are millions and millions of vehicles on the road with DexCool and air in the systems and they do NOT develop brown sludge. The brown sludge comes from an engine with iron parts (block or heads) that IS RUN LOW ON COOLANT. The brown sludge is rust from the iron parts that are seeing dry conditions (due to low coolant) and then the rust is washed off by the DexCool surging or splashing onto the rusty surfaces inside the engine. The coolant isn't oxidizing or developing the sludge on its own. It is from rust from a system running very very low on coolant and the "air" is not reacting with the coolant it is reacting with the iron in the system that is dry due to low coolant levels. The myth of the coolant reacting with air is being hyped by someone who does not know what they are talking about that is attempting to develop an "explaination" for something they do not understand. Period.

Texaco/Havoline coolant continues to be one of the best coolants on the market. Obviously ethyleneglycol is ethyleneglycol no matter who makes it but Texaco develops their own corrosion inhibitor packages and developed the original DexCool (in conjunction wtih GM) so they know what they are doing. Their quality control is also excellent as they are a major supplier of coolants to the OEM's which requires constant survelience of their quality control. I go out of my way to find Texaco coolant whether it is DexCool or the conventional green silicated stuff.

There is pretty little risk in using DexCool in most any modern cooling system but I am always a little hesitant to recommend it personallly in something like the FJR that was not factory filled with DexCool just because I have never seen it tested and have no idea of the specific aluminum alloys in the heat exchanger or other fittings. There is a slight chance that there could be an incompatibility but not likely in all honesty in my opinion. The fact that Warchilds bike runs on DexCool is a positive indicator that nothing terribly bad is happening I guess but not proof. Things like that require a material analysis first and multible tests including some dyno testing at extreme coolant temps to prove the compatibility. Running down the road, even fast in a hot environment, does not tax the cooling system that hard. You need to run full power for 24 hours with the coolant near the boiling point (up around 265 degrees F with 50/50 and 15 PSI) to start to tax the material compatiblity of the head and heat exchanger materials with DexCool for an accelerated test. This is one of the reasons Ford never used DexCool as their systems were not compatible from a material standpoint back in the early 90's when DexCool validation was taking place. I would never recommend DexCool in a system with a brass/copper/soldered heat exchanger. Some will work but many will not.

I think I mentioned this before....but......NEVER trust those little floating ball hygrometers to tell you your coolant concentration. They lie and are very unrepeatable. Try mixing some known 50/50 and then "check" with the cheapo meters. Check 10 times in a row and see how consistent it is. They are notorious for small bubbles sticking to the balls and floats and causing erroneous readings. Always use a refractometer to measure the coolant concentration if you do not know what it is from premixing. I use one of these https://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=90716 and found it to be very accurate (against a known, much more expensive refractometer) and simple to use and it is quite small which makes it even more handy.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you have an 05' FJR I highly recommend using Engine Ice. The blue color will match the bike nicely. If you have a pre 05, then use whatever. They left those bikes unfinished with their primer grey color anyway... :p

 
I am using the Blue Ice in Frank-it's not a racing only coolant, especially since racers cannot use any antifreeze due to it's slippery qualities if laid down on the track, same as any race track, cars or scoots. The "Race" recomendation is for motocrossers, which are about as hard on a cooling system as you'll find. I just wanted a top quality, scoot oriented coolant that was blue. No, wait..... :blink: I liked the idea of the high quality mix (not all distilled water is as good as one might think, not that I can say I've seen it destroy an engine), and that's what is most important to me. I use Havoline green in all my 4 wheel stuff, and have for years, I do change it on a yearly basis out of habit. People would be surprised to learn how often leaky heater cores and radiators, as well as water pump seal failure (bearing soon to follow) can be traced to internal rather than external causes. I've seen systems fail with Dex Cool, as well as regular green-ignore either system at your peril.

 
I am using the Blue Ice in Frank-it's not a racing only coolant, especially since racers cannot use any antifreeze due to it's slippery qualities if laid down on the track, same as any race track, cars or scoots. The "Race" recomendation is for motocrossers, which are about as hard on a cooling system as you'll find. I just wanted a top quality, scoot oriented coolant that was blue. No, wait..... :blink: I liked the idea of the high quality mix (not all distilled water is as good as one might think, not that I can say I've seen it destroy an engine), and that's what is most important to me. I use Havoline green in all my 4 wheel stuff, and have for years, I do change it on a yearly basis out of habit. People would be surprised to learn how often leaky heater cores and radiators, as well as water pump seal failure (bearing soon to follow) can be traced to internal rather than external causes. I've seen systems fail with Dex Cool, as well as regular green-ignore either system at your peril.

Soooo....what is Blue Ice? Is it ethyleneglycol or propyleneglycol? What exactly makes a coolant "scoot oriented" other than the matching color? LOL

 
Soooo....what is Blue Ice? Is it ethyleneglycol or propyleneglycol? What exactly makes a coolant "scoot oriented" other than the matching color? LOL
Propyleneglycol. My cats love it mixed with tuna. And by scoot, I mean designed with late model, all aluminum engines in mind. I can get the Havoline, both Green and Dexcool for nothing, I have drums of the stuff at work. I just thought I'd give this stuff a try. You can LOL all ya want, purchase decisions don't have to be based on purely scientific principal all the time. Be a mighty boring world if there were just one of every product available for sale, one of the biggest problems an aquaintance newly imported from the Soviet Union confided to me some years ago was the bewildering array of similar items for sale. While somewhat confused, she was having a ball being able to make choices, something she wasn't used to at all. Oh, and LOL. :****: :D

 
Propyleneglycol does have the advantage of being much less toxic than ethyleneglycol but if you are after cooling efficiency then it is not the thing you want to use due to the lower specific heat of PG and the increased viscosity compared to ethyleneglycol. That is why it is still not the choice for anyone serious about cooling system performance.

Arco makes most all of the propyleneglycol used for coolant use. They have tried to exploit the non-toxic nature of PG to promote sales of PG as they obviously stand to profit from it's popularity. In discussions with Arco, they readily admit, and prove with their own cooling data, that switching from EG to PG in a cooling system causes a 3 to 5% loss in maximum cooling capacity. Since most systems rarely, if ever, run at maximum capacity (as far as just keeping the gauge in the green) this is sort of a moot point but it does correlate with the theoretical loss suggested by the lower specific heat of PG.

If you want to win a bet sometime tell someone that their Twinkie/LittleDebbie/honeybun/etc. has coolant in it. Then read the llist of ingredients. Propyleneglycol is commonly used in the commercial baking industry to retain moisture in packaged baked goods. It makes a great twinkie but not so good a coolant.

Choices are fine but to make a choice "just to be different" rather than choosing what works best or is most appropriate for the task at hand is a whole different philosophy. Propyleneglycol would be my last choice for a "scoot oriented" coolant designed to protect a highly stressed, high output all aluminum engine from an engineering point of view. But if you want to feed your cats the radiator drainings then it is appropriate.

Also realize that the corrosion inhibitor packages that work in prophyleneglycol are, at best, equivalent to the green EG silicated coolants and sometimes not as good. PG does NOT lend itself to long life coolant specifications like DexCool so there is no such thing as a "long life" PG coolant. It needs to be changed very frequently.

If you can get conventional green silicated Havoline for free that would be the better approach.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
But Twinkies aren't blue, so you're wrong, wrong, wrong! :p As I stated, I thought I'd give the stuff a try. Have seen no benefit, nor have I seen a problem. I planned on going back to the Havoline anyway this winter.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
But Twinkies aren't blue, so you're wrong, wrong, wrong! :p As I stated, I thought I'd give the stuff a try. Have seen no benefit, nor have I seen a problem. I planned on going back to the Havoline anyway this winter.

Neither is proplyleneglycol. Blue Ice dye is the only thing blue about it. Most PG is pink in fact....as in motorhome and rv antifreeze. So really you have pink girlie antifreeze in your bike that is just dyed blue. Read the twinkie label , BTW, before tellling me I'm wrong... :p :p :p

 
Last edited by a moderator:
My Aprilia came with blue coolant in it. I think the brand was "IP", but not sure. Just curious if anyone knew if it was EG or PG or what.

I switched to DexCool after the first 2 years, and have been running it since.

Thanks Jestal -- I think I've wasted a lot of time flushing coolant systems, as I believed (incorrectly per your post), that not getting the old coolant completely out was somehow a bad thing -- but if EG doesn't break down, and only the lubricant/additives are depleted -- it' been quite a waste of my time doing all the flushing to make sure every bit of the old stuff was out.

Great discussion... I learned something..

 
Aye, laddies, yer be ticklin' me funny bone more 'an The Queen be pictured as a beauty! Arrr. Jes be puttin' in the cheapest stuff fer yer Doubloons, akin ta what be recommended fer yer schooner by it's shipwright. Be changin' it on the Sothic cycle 'n yer be keen to runnin' long the fair seas of macadam! Arrr.

 
Yo Pirate! You wouldn't happen to have a cameo in that new Johnny Depp movie, wouldya? :pirate:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not to belabor this EG/PG thing too much but those using propyleneglycol coolants should know that you CANNOT use the floating ball or floating needle type of hygrometers for checking your concentration of coolant. The specific gravity of PG is different than EG and the meters will be in error. You MUST use a refractometer to check the concentration of propyleneglycol systems. That is the only way to measure it.

 
I just picked up some Motul Expert coolant today. A motorcycle specific coolant, whatever that means. It's the premixed variety and is kind of spendy, but I get it at cost plus 10% so it's comparable to mixing my own, or close enough anyway.

I've used this in my dirt bike for years, where cooling systems are hammered, and it's always performed excellently. Some of the riding buddies swear the stuff makes their dirt bikes run about 10*F cooler. I never actually checked temps, so I can't say.

Interestingly enough, I can't tell if it's more green or orange as it's already mixed/diluted, and I'm 40% color blind........ go figure. It says it's compatible with all coolants and cooling systems, gaskets, hoses, etc. So, should I give it a try?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top