Australian Un-Marked Motorcycles Target Cell Phone Users

[HotRodZilla]

In NM there is a "no texting" law. In Bernalillo County, which covers the Albuquerque area, there is a "no electronic device" ordinance.

Local ordinances are going to be a lot tougher to regulate just because they are not widespread and as widely known. I'm not sure why they would even boither with making a local ordinance of this type. Why noit spend the energy to get it passed at a state level?

And fining a texter only $100 is a joke. That isn't going to make much of an impression on anyone. Make it a $1000 fine and/or loss of license for a while, or handle it just like drunk driving, and we'd have a chance of making a real difference.

Well, sorry we don't meet your standards Fred. What you don't know is that NM is very liberal. Having a conservative governor for the last 4 years has helped but she still has to get around the state legislature. Bernalillo County is the most populous county in the state because of Albuquerque. Many times, what's going on in Albuquerque will eventually make it to the rest of the state, but we have to start somewhere.
As for fines, well, there are lots of consequences I think we should impose for violating certain laws, but it has to be reasonable. No one wants to give away $100. From the conversations I've seen here, if someone on this Forum got a $100 citation, the bitching about revenuing would be non-stop. I can only imagine what would happen if it was $1000. Again, we have to take steps. Hell, child restraint citations should be $1000,but theyre only $80. However, if you have a better idea, write to your congressman.

Until then, I'll keep writing as many $100 cell phone tickets as I can.

 

[Fred W]

Sorry if my reply sounded like I did not approve. I do. Just that it would make more sense to pass state-wide laws for important stuff like this, rather than just city ordinances. This really isn't a liberal vs conservative issue, though I understand you brought up that background to say that it would be difficult to pass the law at the state level.

No, nobody wants to get stung for $100 fine, but it is still pretty small potatoes. It's not going to be a real life altering experience to get hit with that fine. It is not enough to make people think twice about engaging in texting. As contrasted to what happens to the innocent people who get smeared by some selfish dipshit that is texting instead of watching where they hell they are going.

We take serious action and penalties against drunk driving. Even people who have never had an citation before in their lives risk a completely life altering punishment (big fines and loss of license) if they do take the chance of driving with alcohol in their blood. Why? Because of the large potential risk to others. I do not see how distracted driving should be treated any less seriously. The potential risk to others is the same.

 

[bhendron]

Well, here's what states have what, all coming under the heading of the "Distracted Driving" umbrella.
edit - And here are some maps that show which states ban what.

• Hand-held Cell Phone Use: 14 states, D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands prohibit all drivers from using hand-held cell phones while driving. All are primary enforcement laws—an officer may cite a driver for using a hand-held cell phone without any other traffic offense taking place.
  
• All Cell Phone Use: No state bans all cell phone use for all drivers, but 38 states and D.C. ban all cell phone use by novice drivers, and 20 states and D.C. prohibit it for school bus drivers.
  
• Text Messaging: Washington was the first state to pass a texting ban in 2007. Currently, 44 states, D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands ban text messaging for all drivers. All but 5 have primary enforcement. Of the 6 states without an all driver texting ban:4 prohibit text messaging by novice drivers.
• 3 restrict school bus drivers from texting.

Only 14 states ban hand held phone use for all drivers.

It appears that I was wrong about the primary/secondary thing. Most places that do have a state law it is a primary offense. Of course that doesn't mean that it is being enforced.

If the authorities are really as concerned about public safety as they claim to be, perhaps they should spend some of the time spent trying to nab speeders on nabbing distracted drivers. The video in the first post shows just how easy that would be.

Sweet Christ, I'm an idiot to ride in Arizona!!! Only one of two states that have no texting ban. WTF? And I see it all the time, from behind they look just like drunk drivers.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Sorry if my reply sounded like I did not approve. I do. Just that it would make more sense to pass state-wide laws for important stuff like this, rather than just city ordinances. This really isn't a liberal vs conservative issue, though I understand you brought up that background to say that it would be difficult to pass the law at the state level.
No, nobody wants to get stung for $100 fine, but it is still pretty small potatoes. It's not going to be a real life altering experience to get hit with that fine. It is not enough to make people think twice about engaging in texting. As contrasted to what happens to the innocent people who get smeared by some selfish dipshit that is texting instead of watching where they hell they are going.

We take serious action and penalties against drunk driving. Even people who have never had an citation before in their lives risk a completely life altering punishment (big fines and loss of license) if they do take the chance of driving with alcohol in their blood. Why? Because of the large potential risk to others. I do not see how distracted driving should be treated any less seriously. The potential risk to others is the same.

Haha...AND this is where we run into issues with people like you who live in areas where dumb shit is illegal, and NM where dumbshits prevent stuff from becoming illegal. Our DWI laws are pathetic. It's not a felony until the 4th, and I have personally arrested people with 15+ convictions on their record. Until states take all of this stuff more seriously, cell phones will run far behind. The problem is that as motorcycle riders, we're at a vantage point to see it more, and driver's mistakes are more costly to us. If someone side swipes my truck, I'm pissed. If they side swipe my bike, I'm probably toast.
Remember that it wasn't until about 25-30 years ago that DWI became a recognize serious problem. Cell phones have only boomed in the last 20 years. We still have to catch up.

 

[HotRodZilla]

And sorry Fred. Didn't mean to come off like I was pissed earlier. I need more smiley things available on this phone...Like this one: :****:

 

[Cav47]

Just to perpetuate the topic and take in another direction...........

I actually can text while driving or riding with the push of one button on my bluetooth headset. It also reads my texts to me, albeit in a horrible accent with many mis-pronunciations.

and

Texting while driving and Drunk Driving are not the same in the same ways as previous posts have portrayed them.

Texting only impairs you temporarily while you are distracted. While driving drunk, you are impaired the whole time. You are not able to suspend your level of toxicity.

Both are bad, but not the same.

 

[lnewlf]

wouldn't need a bike to write up cell phone zombies around here....easily done on foot...

 

[DennisJ]

HRZ if you run out of people to ticket for this you should head up to the Seattle area. I'm sure we could keep you busy for some time. I'd love to see a bunch or reports on the local news channels about the outraged drivers. Makes me smile just thinking about it.

 

[Fred W]

Just to perpetuate the topic and take in another direction...........
I actually can text while driving or riding with the push of one button on my bluetooth headset. It also reads my texts to me, albeit in a horrible accent with many mis-pronunciations.

I knew someone would bring up that technology. It is (badly) integrated into my Ford Sync on my company car. If it worked, it would read the text message to me, as you say, in a bad computer voice. I don't think it has the ability to respond via voice to text encoding, but it doesn't really matter to me since it doesn't work with my (ancient) iPhone 4 anyway.

and
Texting while driving and Drunk Driving are not the same in the same ways as previous posts have portrayed them.

Texting only impairs you temporarily while you are distracted. While driving drunk, you are impaired the whole time. You are not able to suspend your level of toxicity.

Both are bad, but not the same.

I understand your point, however...

I would argue that the percentage of time that you are impaired is insignificant. It only takes a few seconds of excess impairment to erase someone else.

In my mind, the quantity of impairment is probably more significant than the duration. And I would also argue (friendly) that a texter is more completely impaired than some jamoke who had a couple of beers and then blows an .08 BAC.

I'm not saying that driving over the legislated limits are OK or should be tolerated. People have very wide tolerance to intoxicants like alcohol and how it affects them. Those limits are chosen for the least common denominator to protect the rest of us.

For my buddy AJ, yes... we do live in different worlds, even though we are in the same country. Want to be shocked? Take a look at the NH repercussions of DUI.

1st offense DUI/DWI: 10 days Minimum jail time. $500-$750 fine. 9-18 month license suspension. And that, my friend, is for just the first offense, and not an "aggravated" conviction such as when you go so far as to hit someone/thing .

I'm not trying to "one up" you, or anyone else. What I'm saying is that setting aggressive penalties to dangerous activities that threaten the well-being of others are effective measures at reducing them. Setting wimpy 100 fines are like farting in the wind.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Georgia's law is primary, and includes fiddling with GPS and other electronic devices -- AND includes while you're behind the wheel on a public street. Stopped in the turn lane, on the shoulder, at a red light, driving down the freeway at 75 mph, makes no difference. Enforcement is non-existent.

And yet, according to this link, in Georgia use of a hand held cell phone is not banned.

Correct. You can talk on that cell phone as much as you want, holding it in your hand if you like, just don't look at it and/or type on it. And no typing on a GPS or laptop.

Comes back to what some folks have posted -- I think. It's not the holding of the phone, it's the amount of mental concentration involved in the conversation, or in the searching for and pressing of the buttons .... in essence, anything that takes your attention away from the driving task.

One of the reasons I like motorcycles is that it requires significant focus and attention. Not only do you have to handle the same driving tasks as an automobile driver, you have to maintain your balance, watch for pavement hazards and road debris , and you MUST pay significantly more attention to the movement of vehicles around you. That focus is required for the entire trip, and even more so at either end when low-speed tight-turning maneuvers may be required.

Not sure I could handle Bluetooth conversations while riding.

..................................................

Confession time: I have been known to text while stopped at a red light. Today.

 

[HotRodZilla]

And yet, https://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/bystate/ga.html]according to this link[/url], in Georgia use of a hand held cell phone is not banned.

Uh, Fred, yes it is. Look again. Under the "handheld" box is clearly states it is a primary offense. Unless you saw something different.

 

[Fred W]

And yet, https://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/bystate/ga.html]according to this link[/url], in Georgia use of a hand held cell phone is not banned.

Uh, Fred, yes it is. Look again. Under the "handheld" box is clearly states it is a primary offense. Unless you saw something different.

Here's a screen shot of Georgia's page:

The "Yes (Primary)" in the second column above is in regards to Cell Phone Ban for School Bus Drivers.

The blank space under "Hand-Held Ban" in the first column indicates that there is none. The same thing is shown in the overall list of all states that I linked to earlier. Many states differentiate between hand held cell phone usage and texting.

 

[Blind Squirrel]

Blue tooth or not, makes no difference. It isn't the holding the phone to your ear that is the problem. It's the talking on a phone while driving that is the problem. Can't cite the specific studies but I believe they were done by AAA. Think about it, what's the difference between holding a cup of coffee or a phone? Nothing. Yet we treat the handheld phone as if it is the problem.

So helmet to helmet communication----is something you feel is a problem as well??

Just wondering?

This line of logic could be extrapolated to talking to a passenger while in the car.

 

[Cav47]

Blue tooth or not, makes no difference. It isn't the holding the phone to your ear that is the problem. It's the talking on a phone while driving that is the problem. Can't cite the specific studies but I believe they were done by AAA. Think about it, what's the difference between holding a cup of coffee or a phone? Nothing. Yet we treat the handheld phone as if it is the problem.

So helmet to helmet communication----is something you feel is a problem as well??

Just wondering?

This line of logic could be extrapolated to talking to a passenger while in the car.

TOTALLY where I was going with this.

All of this conversation is adding to my knowledge that is conveyed to my new drivers.

 

[Uncle Hud]

This line of logic could be extrapolated to talking to a passenger while in the car.

That's a great analogy, but I am convinced it takes far more concentration to pilot a motorcycle than it does to drive a car -- especially a car with automatic transmission.

Since the bike requires a higher level of concentration, we have less conscious thought process to "squander" by chatting via Bluetooth or gazing at the pretty scenery. Like a CPU that's handling lots of background processing seems to be sluggish when opening a new website.

As one gets more familiar with a specific motorcycle, a lot of the bike-operating details become second nature and don't require the same amount of concentration. Details like when to shift gears, balance through cornering, stopping smoothly at the stop bar, and finding the buttons for horn, turn signal, cruise control, bright/dim become activities that don't require much conscious thought.

Such has been the case for the first 2,000 miles on the FJR, as I've adjusted to her new performance characteristics.

 

[CA G-Man]

Yes the other things mentioned, making phone calls, using GPS, tuning the radio, even drinking that cup of coffee, all do contribute to driver distraction, just to a much lesser extent. Most people are able to carry on a conversation and drive their car simultaneously. How is talking on a hands free device any different than talking to a passenger in the vehicle? Are we going to outlaw that too?

Fred: There is research (I won't look it up and cite it unless you insist...) that has shown clearly that there is a fundamental difference in the effects of a telephone conversation in a vehicle (whether hands-free or not) and a conversation with a person beside you in the vehicle. The thinking is that the biggest likely differences are that the person beside you generally knows when to shut the hell up (because you're merging/turning, etc.) and that you feel less compelled to keep talking to the person beside you when you're occupied with challenging driving situations because they can see what's going on. Also, a phone call tends to take you out of your immediate surroundings, psychologically speaking, whereas you converse with the person in the car in the environment. I think we've all experienced this whether we admit it or not ("holy crap - how'd I get here already?").

This phenomenon has been observed by human factors researchers for decades, but I don't know of any jurisdictions who have done anything about it by outlawing any phone calls while driving. There's seemingly too high a (perceived) political price to pay for doing so.

Guess we'd better still keep our heads on a swivel!

 

[Fred W]

I'll take your word for it since that does make a good deal of sense to me.

I would be totally in favor of making cell phones inoperative when in motion, period. No calls or texts while driving, period. It would keep phone talker pedestrians off their phones (obliviously walking ion front of traffic) It would also eliminate the annoying person next to you in the car, bus, plane, whatever, jabbering away to some other person just because they can. Why do people feel such a need to converse with someone that isn't there at all times?

I'd also like for businesses to be allowed to jam cell phones in their own establishment at their own discretion. Call them Cell Free Zones! If you don't like it, go somewhere else. There's nothing quite like sitting down to an expensive dinner somewhere only to be distracted and annoyed by some schmuck on his phone at the next table. Hey, pal... If you really need to take that call, go outside! Or else being in line at a store while some asshat loudly carries on their phone call. If I were the store employee I'd toss 'em out of line.

Most of us here are old enough to remember what life was like before the onslaught of these "wonder devices". It wasn't all that bad, really. I never minded that I wasn't instantly available to anyone who happens to have my number, and never really felyt a need to be instantly connected to other people either. I guess those days are long gone.

 

[Uncle Hud]

^^^^^^^^^ Amtrak's quiet car. Fabulous idea.

 

[gregory]

https://endlesspicdump.com/text-and-drive-and-hes-gone.html

 

[HotRodZilla]

Freds awesome ideas are why I spend a lot of time texting. Right this second, I'm sitting in a meeting. Obviously, it is earth shattering because I'm browsing the Forum and texting my wife. I couldn't sit here and yap, but I can ignore them and do something productive. Haha...