Bent Shift Fork

[falcon]

I've taken out, and completely rebuilt a Chevy 350 engine before including crank, pistons, rods, cams, valves, etc, so I have some experience, just not on a bike.

You sound qualified for this if you have the time, proper work area, good toolset, and willing to invest in some new ones along the way.

 

[radman]

Removing the engine and taking it to someone qualified seems like the best plan on a bad deal. No doubt it'll save a lot on the labor costs. Take notes, bag parts as removed and label as to location-keep assemblies together as much as possible. And kick the livin **** outta "pal" for me, and I'm sure many others here, sounds like a real crap deal. :angry:

 

[ponyfool]

Oh, and no, I will not consider asking my friend to pay for any of this since there is zero tangible evidence to suggest this was his doing.

 

[madmike2]

Scott, your digital camera is your friend. Take pictures of wires and connectors, hoses, linkages, etc. That way you'll have the pictures in order of disassembly to help when putting it back together.

In the shop my dad and I had, we used a polaroid for "weird" linkages, etc. (Yes...it was THAT long ago) We'd staple the picture to the work order and it saved us some time, expecially when assembling something another took apart.

 

[Geezer]

Removing the engine and taking it to someone qualified seems like the best plan on a bad deal. No doubt it'll save a lot on the labor costs. Take notes, bag parts as removed and label as to location-keep assemblies together as much as possible. And kick the livin **** outta "pal" for me, and I'm sure many others here, sounds like a real crap deal. :angry:

This sounds like the way to go, if you can find someone willing to fix the gearbox after you pull the engine. I doubt they'd guarantee the work.

 

[ponyfool]

Dealer says bringing him the engine will save me $700. Cost of repair with engine off bike, $900 plus parts. They have a shop rate of $90/hr, thus charging me for 10 hours work. I don't know if that's reasonable, but saving me $700 is nice (just under 8 hours labor I suppose to remove and install the engine).

I have a friend who will help me take the engine out at his shop.

They tell me parts are only going to be in the ballpark of $300. So, if I can do it myself, we're talking $300 total. I like that. Here's the catch 22. If I let the dealer do it and they find faulty parts inside, he says he's going to aggressively pursue Yamaha to fix it as a good faith thing. However, having said that, the service manager says if I take the engine out, Yamaha won't do a thing.

Thoughts on getting Yamaha involved at all? I mean, $300 if I can do it, $1200 for the dealer to do it with the engine out.

 

[HaulinAshe]

I would insist on a conversation with Yamaha. Let them know you plan to pull the engine yourself to save labor you cannot afford to pay. That does not change anything about Yami's liability for what's wrong.

Tell Yami that by you pulling the engine yourself, it becomes a 50/50 gamble. You are risking your labor, Yamaha risks the parts that might be needed.

Getting as much of an understanding with Yami in advance is the best route IMO. Negotiating anything after work begins rarely pans out IMHO.

 

[noob]

Dealer says bringing him the engine will save me $700. Cost of repair with engine off bike, $900 plus parts. They have a shop rate of $90/hr, thus charging me for 10 hours work. I don't know if that's reasonable, but saving me $700 is nice (just under 8 hours labor I suppose to remove and install the engine).
I have a friend who will help me take the engine out at his shop.

They tell me parts are only going to be in the ballpark of $300. So, if I can do it myself, we're talking $300 total. I like that. Here's the catch 22. If I let the dealer do it and they find faulty parts inside, he says he's going to aggressively pursue Yamaha to fix it as a good faith thing. However, having said that, the service manager says if I take the engine out, Yamaha won't do a thing.

Thoughts on getting Yamaha involved at all? I mean, $300 if I can do it, $1200 for the dealer to do it with the engine out.

Scott those are some tough decisions... I'd probably lean towards the sure thing of 300, but I'd still take the parts to the dealer and be like "look at this crap! come on!".

Question for you Sir... did the bike ever shift hard? is there a chance this problem can be attributed to a dry, contaminated, hard shifting clutch?

Good luck with it m8 and Regards,

 

[ionbeam]

Read the process of engine removal early on, you will probably need at least one specialized tool to remove a couple of engine bolts. Perhaps some good soul from the Forum could loan you the tool(s).

You should be able to pick up a wood shipping pallet for nothing. Place an old tire on the pallet, the engine goes in the tire center. Strap it down like it is valuable.

Ask the dealer if he would consider going to a flat shop labor rate for any amount of time that exceeds the estimated labor time. It may have been mentioned previously, verify what they will warranty from this job. One former Forum member had a similar failure, once picked up by Yamaha outside of warranty (Toronto), again picked up by Yamaha within a year and then left on his own for the third failure within another year. If the dealer only offers parts that's not much of a warranty. My dealer is offering 'like new' which will be interesting in about two weeks when he will be held to that WRITTEN warranty.

Good luck, I hope you can get this done in a timely fashion and not have it interfere with your riding season.

 

[FJRay]

Scott, I am probably to far away but you are welcome to the use of my shop and anything else in the way of tools. I have two lifts so you could work standing up which helps a lot. Let me know if I can help in any way. I also have a good trailer if you need to transport it somewhere.

 

[radman]

They tell me parts are only going to be in the ballpark of $300. So, if I can do it myself, we're talking $300 total. I like that. Here's the catch 22. If I let the dealer do it and they find faulty parts inside, he says he's going to aggressively pursue Yamaha to fix it as a good faith thing. However, having said that, the service manager says if I take the engine out, Yamaha won't do a thing.
Thoughts on getting Yamaha involved at all? I mean, $300 if I can do it, $1200 for the dealer to do it with the engine out.

This depends on what the dealer says to Yamaha. If Yammi pays the freight, who's to say the dealer didn't remove the engine to begin with? Looks like a $700 lottery ticket to me. I guess the only real way to know what to do is to examine how the damage may have occurred. Some real soul searching on your part, plus some honest feedback from said pal, to eliminate any chance that misuse caused the problem. If you are absolutely sure it didn't, taking a chance on the dealer sounds like a reasonable risk.

 

[drew231506]

Ugh...

Screw that, I'd mow some lawns for some extra $$$ and drop that thing off and forget about it.

Whenever you try to figure the cheapest way out, you get screwed. Trust me, I know.

For the cost of new tools, mooching off friends, blood, sweat, tears, time, parts, hope, frustration...Id drop it off and forget it.

If you have no cash get a new credit card, no interest for a year and pay it off when you get the money.

 

[Caba]

Personally I'd take it to a dealer where I trusted the mechanic. If I didn't trust the mechanic, I'd do it myself completely.

Everyone's situation is different. If you trust your abilities, and / or have good assistance, remove the engine and push (nicely) the dealer for assitance with Yammy and the rest.

Keep us informed.

 

[dcarver]

Hey PF, what are the shifting symptoms? What's it doing that's not correct?

 

[05fjrBluedevil]

I went through this as well and I did have the yes, and am glad i did, but the bottom line was they paid for it as a good faith not warranty work....

It is involved and more than likely not to burst your bubble, but back ordered parts are to be expected... here so plan accordingly for nafo.....

renting a bike using another etc.... or worse case, get another ticket and go and enjoy with out riding there....

here are some shots of mine being done and I can say that this is / shop was not clean and parts were just left laying everywhere for as long as they had it....

I will not use them again.....

The only thing good about this whole process was that they paid for it.

So if I had this to do all over again, I would check out the back room prior to having them work on it... if it is well organized then cool if like this a clusterfuck then I wouldn't ever buy a bike from them let alone let them touch it......

sorry you are going through this, it was not a pleasant experience for me, they had the bike from sept 16- ntil dec 5 of o6......

I road it to eom06 and just dealt with the popping out of gear in second, I road the snake etc... it was interesting with out that gear, but i made it and back... I new how the bike acted and what would cause it to pop out of gear and just adjusted....... So that is an option for you as well.... once you get into it... I think your season is done......

hope this helps you decide..... biggestest issue will be back ordered parts.......

MIke

 

[Chris G]

I took my bike into the dealer for what I thought may be the 2nd gear engagement dogs. They did a test ride and think based on how it is behaving that it is only the shift forks and not the engagement dogs....yet. They said the engagement dogs are sure to go soon, and may be well on their way already.

ponyfool

A couple of thoughts:

If you pull the engine and bring it to the dealer for repair Yamaha will not have anything to do with the cost of repair. Yamaha repairs bikes based on the VIN not the engine number. How are they to know which bike the engine belongs to? You could of got it of ebay.

If you bring your engine for repair and the repair isn't done correctly you wouldn't know until the engine was put back in the bike and you road tested it. What would you do then? The dealer may not stand behind the repair and you may have to pull the engine and go through the whole process again. If they had the whole bike from start to finish they would be responsible for giving you a running, shifting bike back. If you did bring the whole bike don't strip it down enough so it wouldn't run. Leave the tank on and just pull the fairings. A dealer that can't road test a bike won't stand behind the repair.

I have repaired a number of bikes with a bad second gear problem. Its very hard to estimate the cost of parts without pulling it down. The dealer said $300 for parts, unless they have done this job recently i wouldn't take that for granite. If the dogs on the gears are worn even a little i would replace them. It's better than having to tear it down again.

If you do pull the engine to send it out, PULL THE OIL PAN FIRST. All the nasty little bits that are floating around in the oil fall to the oil pan when you drain the oil out. You should pull the pan and clean it out. The first thing the mechanic will do is flip the engine upside down to start the work. All that nasty metallic filled oil will drain right back into the engine.

There is a chance this can be repaired with the engine in the bike. If i remember correctly i did a YZF600 shift fork repair that didn't need the cases spilt. Look at the picture below. The engine is upside down in the picture. If you pulled the clutch and basket you may have access to the locking plate(5) that holds the shift fork shafts(6,9) in place. Pulling the shafts could allow the shafts to come out while the oil pan is off. The shift drum (11) also looks like it will come out as well as the layshaft (13) if needed.

Good luck to you, if you where on the other coast i would say bring it over and i would help you do it pro bono.

 

[ponyfool]

I want to be clear on a couple points. I am NOT going to sign a $2000 commitment to have the dealer take the motor apart to "see" if Yamaha will step up to the plate and do the right thing here. That's just ******** IMO. If they said they'd take care of it "unless there is evidence of abuse", then I'd be ok with it, but that's not what they are doing.

Secondly, I am NOT spending $2000+ dollars to repair a bike that is less than two years old with less than 12,000 miles on it. I just won't do that, especially, if as the Yamaha dealer says, it could likely happen again since they apparently think I'm the reason for it.

I am still exploring my options. There has been enough offers of help from folks around here that I have more options than I did a week ago.

My biggest concern with doing this type of repair myself is, I've never done it before and there are multiple areas in this type of issue where the lay person's eye just isn't good enough.

I'll keep you posted on what's happening with everything as it progresses. Nothing is going to happen until after next weekend, then it'll go full bore so to speak.

NOTE: The suggestion to "take it to a dealer with a mechanic I trust" is an oxymoron to me. I don't know any dealers well enough to know any of the mechanics, so in this area, I can only trust the recommendations from those on this board that do know a dealer well enough to know and trust a mechanic.

 

[Wicked Webby]

Pony,

That really stinks. I guess your HORRIBLE experience here really re-affirms my choice to buy the Y.E.S warranty.

Hope it works out for you.

WW