Bent valve in 2005 Expedition

[HotRodZilla]

I don't remember where they get their engines, but they are supposedly remanufactured specifically for Ford. The place had a name, and I even looked them up. Either way, another rebuilt motor is going in, and we'll see how this one does. I'm kind of thinking of just running it until that 201k warrant runs out and then selling it. They go for decent money here, even the high mile ones. That'll give me a good down payment on a new one.

 

[HotRodZilla]

UPDATE***

These guys still have my wife's car. They did more breakdown than was necessary and have a knack for makig things more difficult than they need to be. A couple weeks ago, the service guy called me about the flywheel needing replaced. I had told them about that when I dropped it off. Then he asked me for the warranty company info. Apparently he never even bothered to call them.

The next day, the warranty Co called me and told me they're authorizing a new motor, a new flywheel and some other small stuff. Perfect! Then the guy asked me why Ford broke the other motor down. Neither of us had any idea but he told me they only authorize 14.9 hours for the motor swap. Any of the other breakdown stuff is on Ford. He warned me about that, just in case they tried to make me pay it. Ha!

So, on Thursday, Ford called me and told me the motor is in, but won't run right. He told me they ran a bunch of tests and they determined the spark plugs are bad, but the flux capicator is fine. Then he told me new plugs will be $586. $23/plug plus 3 hours of labor at $119/hour. I hit the roof! We discussed why they would put plugs with 80k on them in a new engine and how they were fine in the other engine, but suddenly not fine now. One thing led to another, I called a manger, and now I'm just paying for new plugs, which is ok with me. I should have gone to AutoZone, bought plugs and dropped them off. Haha....

Anyway, it "runs great" and will be ready Monday. We'll see!

 

[HotRodZilla]

Well, now I have another issue.

Because we had so much going on, we finally picked up my wife's Expo on Thursday. New motor, new flywheel, and new motors in the windows, because the passenger side front window was intermittent. Car ran fine, and then my wife tried the window. Guess what didn't work.

I went back inside and got the service guy. He swore it worked when they replaced the motor and told us we would have to bring it back in. When my wife asked what that would cost, he said there would be a diagnostic fee. I laughed at him and told him they already diagnosed it and did it wrong. Obviously the window motor wasn't bad, it's most likely a bad switch. He looked stunned, and we just left.

Then on Friday, the Check Engine Light came on. First time that light has ever come on in this vehicle. So, my wife took it to the dealer yesterday to get the codes cleared. He told her the codes say the O2 sensor is out and the cats are bad, so it's totally not related to the new engine. She called me and he told me the same thing. I was getting mad and told him he's full of it. That light has never come on once in the history of the car, but suddenly comes on the day after we run it with a new engine. He said they would look at it and call us back. So, I went and picked up my wife.

Service ***** called me this morning and told me it is definately the cats and the O2 sensor and will be $2800 to repair, because the warranty won't cover it. I told him we would just go get it.

So, what the Hell did they do to set the light off, because I don't believe for a second that "suddenly" the plugs were no good, and "suddenly" the O2 sensor is bad and the cats are bad. This started with the engine "needing" new plugs, and is getting worse. Either the new motor is FUBAR, or something else is going on.

I'm wondering if they left a vacuum hose loose, or if one is broken, or if they left a connector loose. Their story doesn't jive, and I'm getting sick of them being dumb. They lied about the widow, and I'm pretty sure they ****** up the install of the new motor, but I'm not sure where to start.

My plan is to go get it and replace the O2 sensor, because I wouldn't be surprised if MAYBE that went bad, or they ****** it up. Then a buddy of mine and I will plug it in and see what codes are being thrown. If that fixes it, great, but if not, I'll have to keep looking.

I haven't seen a legit spark plug issue in about 35 years. Motors are too good these days for those shenanigans. Bad gas mileage and funky idle are usually the big indicators. I think the new plugs put a bandaid on a problem and the CEL doesn't like what it is seeing after a few miles. No way the cats are bad at 180k. There is no rust on the exhaust, and this car has never run hot. No reason for the cats to quit. Cats usually outlast the car.

With that BS info, anyone have any ideas what may really be going on? Anything I should look for? Anything I that may be obvious that I can look for in the parking lot that may be the real fix?

Either way, I'm done with these fuckers. They'll never see another penny of my money.

 

[NTXFJR]

fwiw, I'd try the O2 sensor route first. I don't trust "professional" mechanics as far as I can throw them. I've been preyed upon in the past and went the way of fixing my **** my own self. I'm getting pissed just talking about it, back on topic, I think you are right about the cats, they prolly are not bad unless the goobers did something while they were in there to cause them to fail, and it's always your word against theirs. Those sensors aren't exactly cheap, but they are compared to new cats, there's always the option of cleaning them first to see if that clears the issue. There are some vid's on cleaning fouled ones up on the webby. Sounds like to me they did some **** to get you to come back so they could recoup some of their losses, or looking to gain more off of a sucker. Only you ain't one. Bastages...

 

[ionbeam]

There are a number of things that an engine can do to either make the O2 sensors and cat con look bad or simply kill'em both outright. I would want to know what the failure mode was and why it wasn't the fault of the new engine. After all, everything was well until the new engine started exhaling through the exhaust system.

 

[Geezer]

If the cat's are indeed bad, regardless of the cause, you can buy aftermarket ones for a lot less than OEM.

Bosal makes a decent part and Rock Auto sells the converters for $204 a piece.

 

[08FJR4ME]

You should have 4 O'2 sensors. One before each cat and one after. The only way a cat can go bad is if it is plugged up. I doubt they are because the car would run like ****. It's possible they screwed with the wiring. Check for anything cut and spliced in.

Dave

 

[HotRodZilla]

Thanks Dave. Thats good info.

 

[Abercrombie FJR]

We had to replace both the cats on our 04 Expedition at under 60,000 miles. My wife works about 300 yards from my home but she insisted on driving the Expedition to work, home for lunch, back to work, and home again. The first one started rattling like crazy like there was nuts and bolts in the exhaust. We replaced that one and shortly after the other one started to rattle like crazy. The dealer thought all the short trips and rarely letting the engine and cats heat up to operating temperature very often took the Catalytic converters out prematurely. Luckily mine went early and the replacement cats and labor were covered under the extended emissions warranty. She still hasn't learned her lesson and still drives her new Escape the two blocks to work four times a day.

 

[RossKean]

The rich mixture during initial start combined with the cats never really getting heated up means hydrocarbons will accumulate and then overheat the catalyst once it gets properly warm. Repeat enough times and it will kill them. As HRZ says, the cats should last a very long time and won't be an issue unless abused. If the engine was, for some reason or another, running very rich for an extended period of time, the cats would be running very hot. Could a bad O2 sensor make things run this badly?

 

[BkerChuck]

Somewhat echoing what Dave said, I've only had to replace the cats on 2 vehicles and in both cases they had broken down internally to the point of blocking or almost completely blocking exhaust flow. In the first case, 1986 Chevy Nova hatchback, it ran like crap and while running when it was dark outside, you could look underneath and see it glowing cherry red! I unbolted that one and using a long drift punch and hammer knocked all of the guts out of so I could get it home.

Bad O2 sensor could adversely effect fuel mixture and kill one if it was operated that way long enough. It is hard to believe you've run it long enough without ever having the CEL come on until now.

 

[HotRodZilla]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I finally got the manager to look into WTF is going on. Turns out there were two cylinders FUBAR in the previous motor, and a gasket was taking a ****. It was pushing fuel into the cats, which is what caused them to croak. I tried the warranty co, but they do not cover exhaust parts, regardless of the reason. It is an aftermarket, and it's in our contract, so it is what it is.

We'll go pick it up and I'll either take it to a shop I know and spend $700 on two new cats, or I'll do it myself for around $250. I'll have to look underneath and see how much of a PITA it looks like. Hell, if I can do it myself on a couple hours, that would be ideal.

 

[ionbeam]

Good answer, good answer....