Better Riding Techniques

[johndaub]

Interesting thread.
In the past, I've been content with doing more 'touring' than 'sport' riding.

EOM changed that. In the short time down there, I've discovered the 'sport' side of the FJR's personality and I like it!

I'm going to work on my techniques and skills with the hope of focusing on even more 'sport' riding. Only bummer is, there aren't many (hell - ANY) decent roads within an hour's ride from here. And NOTHING like the roads around Lewisburg.

Now if I could get some track time at Mid-Ohio....

I started riding 17 years ago at a late age mainly to commute to work. This experience has gotten me good at street strategies such as anticipating the hazards (i.e., every cager) and avoiding them. However, the first few corners at EOM made me realize that I needed to immediately raise the level of my technique if I was to survive! Fortunately I was with a group on Saturday doing the Two-Up Endurance with a leader who promised to keep it sedate (THANK YOU!). I know many of the quicker groups commented on how slow this 20 bike group was going but, for us riders who have never seen a mountain road, it was important to keep us within our limits. The closest thing I have seen to these mountain roads were freeway ramps which do not have the visibility problems of these mountain roads. So what I decided on was to actually work on the techniques I was taught by the MSF but never really needed to apply. One bad habit I had was not fully leaning with the bike. Therefore, what I did to improve my likelihood of survival was:

1. Make sure I leaned with the bike (this really made a difference)

2. Make sure I look as far through the turn as possible (not look at the bike in front of me). Leaning with the bike meant not turning your head as I was used to but actually raising up my chin to see the exit to the corner.

3. Do not accelerate until I saw the exit to the turn.

4. Learn what to expect based on the recommended speed signs (fortunately, these were at every corner on the EOM-7 route).

5. Do not worry about the rider's entrance speed in front of you but go in with what you are comfortable with.

I learned that the FJR can do a lot more than I was getting out of it. I plan to work on my learnings from EOM to make them habit.

 

[motorcycle-ed]

Here's my 2 cents..... After you have learned the correct techniques be sure to practice them ALL THE TIME when you ride. For instance, after completing a corner, reflect upon yourself what you did right and what you did wrong. If you did do something wrong correct it for the next time. Again... always practice proper techniques when riding. If you stick to doing this your skill will eventually improve the more you ride. Good luck!!!

Chris has a very good point. Every ride and every corner should either teach you something new, or re-enforce what you already know. Like others have said, you don't have to go fast to go fast. In fact, generally the "faster" you feel, the slower you went. The corners should "flow", look out in front, examinging the surrounds for hazards, including the road surface (very important in the mountains particularly) once seen, pick a line that avoids such surface issues then DONT LOOK AT IT AGAIN, look out front near the point where your vision is either limited by the horizon or trees, or whatever. NEVER ride into a curve at a speed that you cannot stop safely from, stopping within that sight distance. It may appear that the faster riders you are following are blindly going into a corner, but they are not. A fast rider is still never outrunning what he can see for sight distance. Once the sight distance starts opening up in the curve then roll on throttle to accelerate. Practice, practice, practice, seek advice by asking a faster rider to ride behind and offer advice after a few dozen corners.

Never risk your butt going faster than your skills and comfort. as your skills increase, your confidence and comfort increase and your speed goes up, although it will seem as if you are not really going faster. The speed comes not from going IN fast, but OUT fast.

Of course I could be full of crap, YMMV. Free advice you know!

Ed

 

[BikerGeek99]

There are roads down in the Hocking Hills area that you could get to for a day ride easy...take advantage of those... :clapping:

Yessir, yes there are. And there are some good roads down there that I haven't had / taken the time to explore since adding the FJR to the stable. The only drawback to those roads is they are damn near the ONLY roads worth riding around here so every swinging dick of a squid goes there, too. And, while they are 'good' roads, they don't hold a candle to the roads around Lewisburg.

I think I am forever tainted in my view of what a 'good' road is now.

Johndaub - we were on the Saturday 2-up ride as well. There we were, 2-up, leaning into the turns, accelerating out . . . and then that other group of FJRs busted by us like we were standing still. Watching them go by through the turns, I realized just how much I have to learn as a driver, and I now have a greater appreciation of what the FJR is capable of!

 

[Brody]

There is an excellent article in Rider Magazine (October 2008) "Riding Well" by Eric Trow.

As many have already said, in this thread, riding at a speed that you can stop within your range of vision is important.

But there's a little more to this than first meets the eye.............................

You need to focus on the "visual point" or "sight horizon" as it's also called.

That point over a rise or around a bend that you cannot see past.

Focus on the "visual point" and scan everywhere else in your path.

"THROTTLE CONTROL IS TIED TO THE VISUAL POINT" (Eric Trow)

As that point gets closer to you, you should be decelerating.

If it remains at a constant distance, you should hold your speed steady.

As that point gets farther from you, you can accerlerate.

Of course, there are many other factors that must work in conjunction with this but these

are of paramount importance to your smoothness, safety and control.

I can't go into a total riding course in one post but you must also consider these factors:

*Alertness and concentration and avoiding distractions.

*Proper body position to control the degree of lean of the bike.

*Proper gearing to take full advantage of engine braking and quick acceleration.

*Proper brake coverage and modulation.

 

[happyPuppy]

I guess I need to do a better job of explaining. This was a 2 lane country back road. Due to the monstrous amounts of rain we get in the PNW ( and to allow the Salmon to move up stream) many of the roads have very deep drainage ditches on both sides. I had made a U turn on a one lane road due to construction a few miles down the road. The one lane road was to to my left. I turned around and to get on the road I was on and head in the other direction, I was faced with a 35* or so incline. There was no shoulder due to the ditch. I was afraid to stick out too far to turn right as to my left about a 100 feet was a blind turn to the right. I went out as far as I felt safe, and to see around the bend was angling to the right. Too far and most of the bikes weight shifted quickly to my right leg. I had to shift my body left really pull and push to save a drop. I know several things I did wrong.

1. I am new to the FJR the CG is higher and my last ride was around 400 lbs, and I was relying on past experience ( a bad habit) that I had picked up. My legs are pretty strong, and it would have been a snap on the other bike to do, but a bad habit nevertheless.

2. I may have favored the right side of the lane but most of all kept my handlebars square ( I didi not, they were turned right to turn right).

3. The FJR has a much tighter turn radius than I was used too, I was just unfamiliar enough to think of it.

I suspect if I kept the bars square and moved up as far as safe looked left to see if clear, I could have given it some throttle would have been off , with a tight right turn. In my case a bit of the issue is the AE is odd at low speed , and I it is taking time to get use to it without a clutch to feather. I hit the parking lot for 45 minutes of practice everything from panic stops through tight radius turns, weaves etc. I have taken both MSF classes and they were both easy, as I did them on a little 250 both times. It is nearing the end of riding season up here , and I have put 7k on since spring. What was stupid is a new bike in many ways is like starting over again, and a bigger one takes getting used too. Any input appreciated, I believe in continuous improvement.

 

[spalkin]

Lots of great reading above! I like this topic.

My best answer? Ride your bike a lot. As time passes, you'll never be in any situation you haven't seen before.

Watch motorcycle racing, it will inspire you.

Put away speed. there's really no place for it on public roads (unless you know the road extremely well and all conditions say green)

Watch this and others on the page. You'll love it.



Have fun!

 

[NSrider]

I just ordered the RLAP V DVD here https://ridelikeapro.com/ and if you mention that you are an FJRforum member Donna will give you a $5.00 discount.

 

[cyclebabble]

Thanks for all the replies and keep em coming!

I have taken the BRC, and have all the ride like a pro dvds. I try to get parking lot practice in (actually I use an empty industrial park), but still coming from EOM at times I felt no confidence in my riding abilities.

The one thing I noticed is when I rode alone, I felt no pressure to ride the groups pace. I could freely concentrate on my ride and not worry if I was holding people up.

I talk to myself alot when I am riding..."Look through the curve. Outside, inside, Outside" But coming into some corners I would almost panic and creep into them and on the exit I would be like "Hell, I could have done that much smoother."

Just more time in the saddle would probably help alot, as well as a riding school.

Thanks again, looking forward to more suggestions and tips.

Chris

 

[spalkin]

The one thing I noticed is when I rode alone, I felt no pressure to ride the groups pace. I could freely concentrate on my ride and not worry if I was holding people up.
Chris

Great point. Whenever you ride with someone, even if it's a sedate ride, your personal timing is off. You're in a different place at a different time than you would be alone.

I like riding with someone over highways. On curvy roads, I keep plenty of separation.

Just enjoy the ride and the scenery. Don't worry about impressing anyone.

Object is to get home with everything in the same condition as when you left.

 

[bergs]

Only bummer is, there aren't many (hell - ANY) decent roads within an hour's ride from here. And NOTHING like the roads around Lewisburg.

:blink:

An hour?

Brother man, a group of us will ride 4 or 5 hours in order to hit the sweetest twisties in VT and NY....and hour is just getting started.

 

[jnor]

So my question is How do I become a better more confident rider?
Is a track day something to consider? Maybe a riding school?

Yes.

Gaining confidence to ride aggressively on blind curves is a fool's mission.

We have great twisty roads here, running up and down the Cumberland Plateau, and on over into the Smokies.

There are many times when I've rounded a blind curve and found

a) tree down across road

b.) group of deer in the road

c) tractor with empty hay bale skewer awaiting any comers

d) local in late model SUV or pick up truck taking their half of the road out of the middle

e) vehicle backing out of blind driveway in blind curve

etc. etc. etc.

I have personally come up on all of these things.

We also have the rockwall and the cliff which I've been fortunate enough to avoid.

If you want to do a Valentino Rossi impression, take it to the track where your "off" will be set up for better energy absorbtion, and where animals, trees, and other vehicles won't be in your lane.

On a public road, don't carry speed into a curve that you can't scrub off within your line of sight.

+1 Great advise

 

[jnor]

I am going to attend Lee Parks total performance school. I honestly do not think I am that good of a rider, and want to get better. I learn best by visual learning and then doing it, books help but I like to feel it to really understand what they are talking about. For instance today, due to road construction, I had to turn around on a dead end road and to head back.I was faced with a steep incline to get on a narrow road with a blind turn to the left. I was trying to turn right and found myself leaning to the right and almost dropped the bike, and luckily I was able to muscle it up to a neutral position. On smaller lighter bikes I could get away with it , the FJR is a heavy beast and bad habits are getting apparent. I am learning the bike, but I figure getting an expert coach would be a real asset for myself.

++++++++111111 on Lee Parks !!!!!!!

 

[jnor]

Interesting thread.
In the past, I've been content with doing more 'touring' than 'sport' riding.

EOM changed that. In the short time down there, I've discovered the 'sport' side of the FJR's personality and I like it!

I'm going to work on my techniques and skills with the hope of focusing on even more 'sport' riding. Only bummer is, there aren't many (hell - ANY) decent roads within an hour's ride from here. And NOTHING like the roads around Lewisburg.

Now if I could get some track time at Mid-Ohio....

There's a lot of good roads in southeastern Ohio, and a few an hour from you (I'm sure that you already know them), but in Hocking Hills there's Big Pine, 56 278 664 etc.

All decent roads, but not without risk......I am not willing to chance trying to be a Casey Stoner on the public roads anymore, so many things are out of your control, I don't care how "good" someone is. I ride faster than "cruiser bike" speed, but not like some "ricky road racer" types. I've shown up to ride with some people before, and when I got there, they had full leathers, knee pucks etc. I kept on going. But I guess I was a "kid" once. Honing riding skills is always good, but taking risk's that you can't control (trying to road race on the street) I'm not interested in....it's risk vs. reward with me.

 

[jnor]

There are roads down in the Hocking Hills area that you could get to for a day ride easy...take advantage of those... :clapping:

Yessir, yes there are. And there are some good roads down there that I haven't had / taken the time to explore since adding the FJR to the stable. The only drawback to those roads is they are damn near the ONLY roads worth riding around here so every swinging dick of a squid goes there, too. And, while they are 'good' roads, they don't hold a candle to the roads around Lewisburg.

I think I am forever tainted in my view of what a 'good' road is now.

Johndaub - we were on the Saturday 2-up ride as well. There we were, 2-up, leaning into the turns, accelerating out . . . and then that other group of FJRs busted by us like we were standing still. Watching them go by through the turns, I realized just how much I have to learn as a driver, and I now have a greater appreciation of what the FJR is capable of!

I head toward Woodsfield to ride good roads...536 148 145 800 146 26 145, and a dozen more, unlike Hocking Hills, not much traffic. i also ride in WVA some, but it ends up being a 4-6 hundred mile day to go to WVA for me.

 

[Brody]

Interesting thread.
In the past, I've been content with doing more 'touring' than 'sport' riding.

EOM changed that. In the short time down there, I've discovered the 'sport' side of the FJR's personality and I like it!

I'm going to work on my techniques and skills with the hope of focusing on even more 'sport' riding. Only bummer is, there aren't many (hell - ANY) decent roads within an hour's ride from here. And NOTHING like the roads around Lewisburg.

Now if I could get some track time at Mid-Ohio....

click here for a practice road in Columbus

this one is only 38 miles from center of Columbus, click here. looks like a real good practice road.

Columbus isn't that far from the southeast "Little Switzerland of Ohio" area which has very nice twisty roads.

 

[Fred W]

Interesting thread.
In the past, I've been content with doing more 'touring' than 'sport' riding.

EOM changed that. In the short time down there, I've discovered the 'sport' side of the FJR's personality and I like it!

I'm going to work on my techniques and skills with the hope of focusing on even more 'sport' riding. Only bummer is, there aren't many (hell - ANY) decent roads within an hour's ride from here. And NOTHING like the roads around Lewisburg.

Now if I could get some track time at Mid-Ohio....

click here for a practice road in Columbus

this one is only 38 miles from center of Columbus, click here. looks like a real good practice road.

Columbus isn't that far from the southeast "Little Switzerland of Ohio" area which has very nice twisty roads.

You can listen to Dr. Brody. I spent the whole day Saturday riding behind him in the hills of WV. He is very smooth...

 

[JimO]

Here's a long question from a FNG who's very interested in the topic of cornering: When I'm cornering my fear comes up as to how fast can I go, will the tires hold, what's the limit of adhesion? Leaning doesn't bother me and I think I understand how to line up a corner. If I brake as hard as I can when riding in a straight line the force that the tires produce in that stop is amazing and with the ABS there's no tire slippage. Will the tires in a lean adhere at the same limits as when I'm jamming the brakes in a straight line? I'd appreciate any response to this question.

 

[Big Sky]

I like to analyze good technique a lot when I'm not riding, especially after the day's riding is done and the impressions are fresh. I used to ride quite a bit with a newbie and after we had the boots off and a beer cracked, we'd talk about all the situations we'd encountered, how we'd handled them, what to do in different situations, what is good technique and practice and what is not. This young guy was very bright and challenged me to describe and explain the techniques, things like counter steering - the physics and geometry and principal, the proper position of the machine on the roadway, the proper position of the body, the best way to give steering input, how to deal with crosswind and truck buffeting and on and on. It was a very good exercise and prompted me to really think these things out and form and understand the explanations.

But so much riding comes down to practice and developing the muscle memory - the reflexes - you need to quickly respond, react, anticipate and always remain in control. Much just happens way too fast to be totally and constantly analytical about it. I think the best time to take a purely cerebral approach is before and after the ride. If you are always calculating and thinking about what has to happen just as it is - or while it is - happening, it will be too late and yes, you will never be smooth. Much has to become automatic.

None of this means I'm contradicting all the foregoing; indeed, this thread contains many of the best principals of riding well and smart and safely.

 

[Brody]

Here's a long question from a FNG who's very interested in the topic of cornering: When I'm cornering my fear comes up as to how fast can I go, will the tires hold, what's the limit of adhesion? Leaning doesn't bother me and I think I understand how to line up a corner. If I brake as hard as I can when riding in a straight line the force that the tires produce in that stop is amazing and with the ABS there's no tire slippage. Will the tires in a lean adhere at the same limits as when I'm jamming the brakes in a straight line? I'd appreciate any response to this question.

The road surface and what's on it will affect traction. Last week I was watching a bike race on TV when one bike blew something and started to leak oil on the track. In moments a half dozen bikes went down and they had to red flag the race.

There is no set fast rule of adhesion.

As a sport touring rider on twisty roads your speed is usually determined not by traction limits but by the "sight distance".

The exceptions to this come into play when traction is reduced. For example, the other day at EOM, we were riding route 16.

We came upon several miles of twisties with gravel, dirt, coal dust and deisel fuel on it. That makes for a very greasy surface, even in the absence of moisture. Speeds must be reduced to a minimum in those situations.

When we are talking about good road surface conditions, the limiting factor is usually the sight distance but there are exceptions here too.

For example, a very tight switchback. Here you can see beyond the turn but the technical difficulty of the turn itself is the limiting factor.

And while on the topic of "cornering adhesion", I'd be amiss not to mention body positioning. If you shift your weight to the inside of the turn (best done in an anticipatory fashion, ie. just before the turn) the bike will go through the turn in a more upright position, thus leaving you with the greatest amount of cornering traction.

And it follows, if you stay centered on the bike, this will be an intermediate amount of lean and move the bike closer to its cornering traction limits.

And further, it you keep your body more upright, thus leaning outside the turn, this will bring the bike to the maximum amount of lean, closest to the traction limits (and also most likely position for peg scraping).

 

[Axeman]

I am going to attend Lee Parks total performance school. I honestly do not think I am that good of a rider, and want to get better. I learn best by visual learning and then doing it, books help but I like to feel it to really understand what they are talking about. For instance today, due to road construction, I had to turn around on a dead end road and to head back.I was faced with a steep incline to get on a narrow road with a blind turn to the left. I was trying to turn right and found myself leaning to the right and almost dropped the bike, and luckily I was able to muscle it up to a neutral position. On smaller lighter bikes I could get away with it , the FJR is a heavy beast and bad habits are getting apparent. I am learning the bike, but I figure getting an expert coach would be a real asset for myself.

My thoughts also. I spent 4 years on a BMW KT1200 with ABS. Now on my FJR without the brakes. It is over 200 pounds lighter, but the ABS makes quite a difference in braking confidence. Any one else? I need to trade up to ABS or slow way down

Axeman