Bigger, Faster, safer bikes.

[JamesW]

Was mentioning to the wife about taking a short (couple hours) ride this afternoon after my veterans day lunch. Weather is looking good. She started saying the usual be careful out there admonishments and I responded without thinking much that is why I choose to ride bigger faster bikes. I like the performance edge and capabilities when negotiating traffic plus being able to see over most vehicles and getting around those I cannot. I have been on the lighter bike quest since hip started getting arthritic, hence the V-strom 1000 replacing the wing. I have test ridden some smaller bikes but frankly these little tiddlers leave me cold in traffic, that and chain slappers with NO centerstand. My FJR (2013) has all I want without being overly complicated, Gen. 3 upgrades hit my nail right on the head. Love 5th gear on the road in sport mode, and my personal opinion is cruise control over 80mph is not for me. Suspension stays set in the middle and works fine all around for me. When the groans came out about that limit on the 2013s I still had my 06 wing and while in the middle of Idaho I evaluated the wings cruise control by holding down the advance button, went as fast as 115mph indicated, released button and it maintained, that to me was way spooky, I was not in control. Time to go for the free luncheon, ride safe.

 

[Klubis]

I'm with you on most of your post, as long as "bigger" does not necessarily mean heavier [aside: wow, it took like 10 times to spell necessarily correctly] .

I feel every bit as safe on my FZ1 as I do on my FJR, except I wish the FZ had ABS, and I wish the FJR was 200 pounds lighter!

But I agree wholeheartedly that visibility, situational awareness, and enough snot to motor of trouble are highly desirable characteristics. But now that I think of it, a quality 125 enduro also gives me excellent situational awareness. So maybe it's mostly the "snot" that I prize. And handling. And brakes.

I haven't spent much time on cruisers, but I imagine with their low seating, visibility is no so good?

I'm serious as hell about weight. I have this feeling that it won't be too many more years before I can't push this FJR around the garage. My FZ1 feels like a 1973 CL350 when I get off the Feejer. I'm talkin' just pushing around in the garage.

Not trying to hijack the thread. Carry on.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Dude...If it makes you happy, ride it. Like you, I love my FJR, but never really felt "unsafe" on my other bikes. I just had to ride differently. Either way, so long as you like it, it really doesn't matter what it is!

 

[CAJW]

HRZ, new avatar is a winner! On topic, Lighter is better to a point. My 279 lb. dual sport is a hoot to throw around in the tight twisties (and of course the dirt) , but I miss the stability of the FJR above about 50 mph or when the wind comes up. My Gen I was nearly 100 lbs. lighter than the current Gen III models, but I wanted something lighter for twisty roads. Out on open roads or navigating high speed sweepers, you can't beat having a few more pounds to help keep you planted. I agree, the faster you're moving, more weight can be a good thing, provided you have the braking capability to stay out of trouble.

 

[mcatrophy]

There is friend of mine, a very experienced and expert motorcyclist. When his son started to ride, his bike has to be restricted to something like 45hp, this is a British legal requirement for a new rider. First thing my friend did was to (illegally) remove the restriction, because it was, he said, "bl**dy dangerous".

When my son started riding, he too had to have this restriction. I also thought it was dangerous, but had to weigh the possible legal/insurance ramifications against the loss of performance, I'm sorry to admit I let the former override the latter. We removed the restriction as soon as legally possible.

Both sons survived unscathed, friend's son because he had an expert teacher in his father, mine in spite of having me as a teacher/father.

We all like good power-to-weight ratio to stay safe.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I lusted for other bikes besides the sport tourers I've ridden the past several years. But my riding frequency, hours, and environment led me long ago to conclude that the ability to stop quickly, even on a wet surface, and the ability to dodge or escape sticky situations nimbly were core requirements for survivability for me. I came close to buying a road king in between the RT and the FJR. But that bike didn't have abs. That was the only thing that stopped me. That and the fear of rust with year round riding. Power and weight make an unsafe rider less safe. But they are just fine in skilled hands.

 

[El Toro]

It's funny to some of us old guys to see our beloved Brits setting the requirement that new motorcyclists be limited to just a bit more power than the mid 60s Bonneville.

Everyone used to start with less than 15 hp because they could not afford more at their age. I started with less than 10. It sure keeps you off the main highways, which by itself may be the safest thing you can do.

 

[mcatrophy]

It's funny to some of us old guys to see our beloved Brits setting the requirement that new motorcyclists be limited to just a bit more power than the mid 60s Bonneville. Everyone used to start with less than 15 hp because they could not afford more at their age. I started with less than 10. It sure keeps you off the main highways, which by itself may be the safest thing you can do.

What I wrote was probably out of date. The power of the bike depends on age, experience and license type. The rules change fairly often. They are very complex, impossible to sum up in a few words.
Suffice it to say, we see young riders wobbling around at their maximum of 25 mph on 40mph roads, usually hugging the curb, with cars, vans, trucks overtaking with very little clearance. I believe the thinking behind it is politicians* showing that they've "done something about the accident rate among young riders". With that, and all the other test requirements, they've actually made it very difficult to get a full license and be able to ride a safe motorcycle.

But we can all still filter .

I taught myself on my brother's 10hp Tiger Cub (which I later inherited). At that time it was quite nippy in the prevailing traffic, but now it would be very hard to stay out of trouble. Not that I stayed out of trouble then .

*Hoping this political reference is allowed because it directly concerns motorcycling.

 

[Klubis]

How many horsepower was a Honda Super 90? Remember them? My cousin had one, and that's what I learned to ride on [incorrect grammar, I know]. I recall it having a bad head shake when maxed out.

 

[mcatrophy]

How many horsepower was a Honda Super 90? Remember them? My cousin had one, and that's what I learned to ride on [incorrect grammar, I know]. I recall it having a bad head shake when maxed out.

Rated at 8 horsepower, but that is not necessarily the same as real (brake) horsepower, don't know that.
And your grammar was perfect.

 

[Brodie]

Bigger, faster - Safer?

<soapbox>

Just my humble experience. My '06 was my first bike that had gobs of power and relatively low weight that went along with it. The Venture, even with it's mighty V4 was a pig with a tiller for steering. After having the FJR for a few months I had an opportunity to open it up on a deserted stretch of road and took it up to an indicated 120. Fast? YES! But I could feel it wasn't capable of performing comfortably at that rate of speed because the suspension wasn't up to it. It felt like a wild tiger, nervous - with the slightest upset, ready to throw me off it's back and eat me up. In my humble opinion, the bike as purchased isn't up to those sustained speeds without quite a bit of coin to bring civility to it's undercarriage. It just plain wasn't set up right for the lump of flesh it was saddled with.

The next year down that same stretch of road - with a full Penski/Traxxion set up dialed in to my fat a$$, the thing felt planted, and read to properly absorb most any road imperfections with confidence. Except for the fuel consumption being in the low teens, and the desire to avoid performance awards, I felt that I could comfortably ride at that high rate of speed all day long - a fair bit above that artificial ceiling established the year before........ and definitely before DarkSiding the thing.

The point I'm trying to make is that just the bike alone, as provided by the manufacturer is a delicate balance of compromises which gets a competent platform into the hands for a vast majority of riders for a fair price. Safer? Yes! - for the posted speeds and normal pace that traffic runs. As with anything mechanical, if you want to push the performance envelope, be prepared to spend exponentially more and more in terms of money and time/effort the closer you get to it's edge and still be in control.

And 'Control' is a RELATIVE term!

However, the biggest 'Bang for the Buck' upgrade is your personal check for a proper mindset before you even think about saddling up.

Be safe out there!

</soapbox>

Brodie

 

[El Toro]

I recall it having a bad head shake when maxed out.

I remember them as 8 hp too. I worked in the local Honda dealership (which also had Kawasaki, Yamaha, Triumph, BMW, Bultaco, Hodaka, and probably some others I've forgotten). If it had bad head shake, there may have been some steering head issues, or possible some other front end or tire problems.

We had a long hill (called 10 mile hill for an obvious reason), and laying down on the tank with a tail wind, you could get the S-90 up to about 75 mph indicated at WOT.

I don't remember it as being particularly scary. There was no traffic in those days. And, if you were lucky, no enforcement.

I really think the key to keeping young "learning" riders safe is to keep them in an environment where predatory cagers aren't present. It was easier to find such places 50 years ago.

I think I mentioned that I'd recent succumbed to the end of 2016 deals on the Kawasaki Vaquero 1700 ABS and their ZX14R ABS SE. The former makes me think that an under powered bike isn't safe. The latter makes me wonder if an over powered bike isn't the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Aunt Kelly has a Suzuki SV 650. I've ridden it twice in the past 12 months. It's quick and "flickable" and really sporty .... but I'll be happy to never, ever ride it again.

After almost 50,000 miles on my FJR, the little 650 feels like it's made of cellophane and toothpicks. How in the world she feels comfortable on it at 75 mph on the freeway is mind boggling.

 

[El Toro]

I had a Yamaha XJ600S which is quite similar to the SV650. I used to ride with a guy out here in rural areas of the plateau and it was a hoot thrashing them side by side. Top speeds attainable in the limited sight distances were in the 90's indicated. I was never comfortable taking these bikes out on I-40 .... but they are great bikes for back road twisties and sweepers, especially if there is the possibility of enforcement.

The right bike for the right ride..... always good advice. It is a ball to take one of these low powered bikes (the SV650 and XJ600S are powered similarly with around 60ish hp, and they're close in weight too). You can wring the bike's neck and never be "out of control."

Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, and possibly others, are now making sporty bikes in the 300 cc class. I've been thinking it would be great fun to have one.

And I love my 2002 100th anniversary T100. And I used to love the BMW G650 Xmotos that I owned.

Gosh these light bikes with enough horsepower to keep up on rural roads are great bikes for learners.

 

[Klubis]

Gosh? I haven't heard that word in a while!

The head shake on my cousins S90 was experienced on a straight flat section of route 31 near Somerset, PA. It could well have been the tires or steering head bearings. All I know is I slowed down. I knew jack about bikes back then. S90s will always have a place in my heart.

I too am interested in the new lower displacement sporty bikes. I remember winding my CL350 to redline in nearly every gear. That was fun. There are so few places where I can do that with a fizzy or a feejer.