Bike Setup Questions

[RossKean]

This may be destined for NEPRT. I have done quite a bit of reading/searching but have some specific questions that I would like to address.

Bike is a new-to-me 2007 "A" with ~13,000 miles. K&N filter, Leo Vince SBK mufflers, Power Commander III USB, "custom dyno tune", 200 lb rider, Cee Bailey Windshield, Givi top box but no side bags. Thats the current setup and my questions/problem have to do with mileage and practical solutions. I realize this ain't no scooter and some will say if I want economy I should have a different bike - don't even bother with those comments, please.

The fact is, I do quite a bit of long distance riding and an effective range of 200 miles (36 MPG) under fairly sedate riding conditions (30:70 city/highway; not much over 70 mph) just isn't good enough. I haven't even had an opportunity to check mileage under conditions of more spirited riding, but it's not likely to be an improvement. I only have a few tanks through it, but indications are that mileage is fairly consistently poorer than I would like or expect. I would be willing to sacrifice some performance or driveability for a significant boost in economy. I would even consider returning the bike to stock, if that's what it takes - can't be that bad, can it? (never rode a "stock" FJR)

Specific Questions:

1) Custom dyno tune was done by the previous owner and he told me I shouldn't even consider changing it. (He was quite proud of the expensive custom dyno tune he had done) I suspect it was tuned for performance, rather than economy which might not be so bad for someone who doesn't put a lot of miles on a bike and who wants to "push the envelope" a bit! Once I get the PC III working with my computer, I will make the current map available to anyone who wants to try it. Are most custom tunes made for maximum performance without much regard to economy?

2) Can anyone recommend a map that will yield acceptable off-idle throttle response and good fuel mileage that is compatible with my setup (K&N + LV cans)? My riding is more focused upon longer distance touring rather than keeping up with the sport bikes.

3) Plugs are original. Not noticing any hesitation or missing. Would anyone expect a mileage effect with a change to new plugs? (I suspect not, but I'm going to change them anyway)

4) If I use the LV quiet(er) inserts, will it change the engine breathing enough to require a map change? Anyone with experience with the LV with and without the inserts?

5) If I go back to the stock pipes, will the bike be too rich if I keep the custom map?

6) If I keep the current physical setup, will the bike be too lean (to the point of damage or very poor driveability) if I switch to a "Zero map" (or remove the PC III completely)? Or will the bike's monitoring of exhaust composition prevent a dangerously lean condition (assuming the O2 sensor is connected)?

7) I haven't cleaned the K&N filter yet - shouldn't be too bad after 10,000 miles or so (not particularly dusty conditions). Assuming the filter was not over-oiled, I assume "normal" loading of dirt shouldn't have a profound effect on mileage?

8) Someone suggested that I might consider hooking up the O2 sensor with the PC III, but it seems to me that this effectively defeats the point of having an aftermarket fuel management device. Comments??

Sorry for the long post. I'm new to this bike and I'm just trying to educate myself a bit on the FJR. I am planning a cross-continent trip at the end of June and I want everything to be pretty much optimized by then. Thanks for the help.

(Didn't even talk about oil , tires or what kind of gas to use!!)

Ross

 

[Intech]

I have a 2007A as well. I can't specifically answer your questions, but I can say that my bike is completely stock and has all the performance I need. My mileage varies from 42 - 45 MPG depending on load and riding style. Sometimes I get better mileage loaded riding 2-up than riding solo unloaded. Hmmm...I guess that says something right there!

 

[Kromm]

I own an "08 with a K&N air filter. Full Muzzy system, and a PC3 with a custom made map...

1&2--IMHO.. I'd Keep the custom map. It was made for that bike. I had a custom one done for mine and think if you can afford it , it's the way to go.

3-- CHANGE THE PLUGS!!!! I had 16 K on my original plugs. The bike still felt like it was running smooth, but my mileage was dropping to the mid 30 's (33-35 mpg). I changed the plugs and the millage jumped back up into the 39-41 mpg range. And it ran even smoother (like new).

4&5-- I'm no expert , but I believe that if you change anything (air filter or exhaust) it will effect the way the bike runs since you do have a custom map.

6-- There are a few of maps out there. And there all being used. BUT again IMHO a map that is made for your bike vs a "generic" map. I'd stick with the custom map. Again it was Made for THAT bike. Since you have a PC3 the O2 sensor is disconnected. That's what the "map" is for.

7-- I have a K&N filter also. I clean mine once a year. fI it was my bike I had just bought used, and I was told the air cleaner had 10k miles on it, I think I would clean it, what could it hurt?

8-- The instructions for the PC3 tells you to disconnect the O2 sensor. By reconnecting it you will counter the effect of the unit.

 

[FJRay]

Just another opinion and it's worth just what it costs.

Mine is an 03 with a PC with custom map done on a dyno. The O2 sensor is not disconnected and it still works so your balls won't fall off. Tried it with Muzzys and stock cans and if I behave I can get 50 mpg or better sometimes and I don't think I have had less than 40 mpg except under certain conditions Alos have the KN and clean it once a year.

 

[wfooshee]

O2 sensor will override the PC3, as the ECU will compensate to get its own desired mixture when it's in closed loop.

Thing is, nobody really knows under what conditions exactly it runs in closed loop. If it's in open loop the PCIII is good.

A dyno session to create a map is a good thing, but the owner can specify his objective at the session. Your bike's previous owner's objective was power. That takes more gas. If he'd prioritized smoothness and economy, they could have done that, too. A lot of folks are simply trying to get the off-idle throttle a little less harsh, and the G2 tube will do that by itself.

It's the work of a half hour or so to take the PCIII out of the fuel system and you can see how you like it then. The PCIII is connected between the ECU and the fuel injectors. There are 2 connectors on the fuel rail for the injectors, one side of those is the injectors and one side is the ECU. A PCIII taps in at those connectors, so the ECU goes to the PCIII, then the PCIII goes to the injectors. That and a ground wire are the only connections the PCIII has.

Raise the tank, unplug the four pairs of connectors that go to the injectors, plug the factory connectors back together leaving the PCIII connectors loose. Reconnect the O2 sensor. You don't have to physically remove the PCIII from the bike, and its only other connection is a ground wire, so it's now doing nothing. Put the tank back down and ride, bike is now in stock fuel configuration.

 

[RossKean]

O2 sensor will override the PC3, as the ECU will compensate to get its own desired mixture when it's in closed loop.
Thing is, nobody really knows under what conditions exactly it runs in closed loop. If it's in open loop the PCIII is good.

A dyno session to create a map is a good thing, but the owner can specify his objective at the session. Your bike's previous owner's objective was power. That takes more gas. If he'd prioritized smoothness and economy, they could have done that, too. A lot of folks are simply trying to get the off-idle throttle a little less harsh, and the G2 tube will do that by itself.

It's the work of a half hour or so to take the PCIII out of the fuel system and you can see how you like it then. The PCIII is connected between the ECU and the fuel injectors. There are 2 connectors on the fuel rail for the injectors, one side of those is the injectors and one side is the ECU. A PCIII taps in at those connectors, so the ECU goes to the PCIII, then the PCIII goes to the injectors. That and a ground wire are the only connections the PCIII has.

Raise the tank, unplug the four pairs of connectors that go to the injectors, plug the factory connectors back together leaving the PCIII connectors loose. Reconnect the O2 sensor. You don't have to physically remove the PCIII from the bike, and its only other connection is a ground wire, so it's now doing nothing. Put the tank back down and ride, bike is now in stock fuel configuration.

Will the bike run too lean (i.e. leaner than stock) with the PC III disconnected given my configuration (K&N + LV cans)? Or does the O2 sensor compensate?

Thanks

Ross

 

[ChrisW]

I realize this ain't no scooter and some will say if I want economy I should have a different bike - don't even bother with those comments, please.

e-bay the PCIII and pipe.

Retun to 40-45 mpg, get your next set of tires and 40 tanks of gas for free.

That's about 10,000 miles for $0.00.

That's pretty economical IMO.

 

[Aasland]

Specific Questions:1) Custom dyno tune was done by the previous owner and he told me I shouldn't even consider changing it. (He was quite proud of the expensive custom dyno tune he had done) I suspect it was tuned for performance, rather than economy which might not be so bad for someone who doesn't put a lot of miles on a bike and who wants to "push the envelope" a bit! Once I get the PC III working with my computer, I will make the current map available to anyone who wants to try it. Are most custom tunes made for maximum performance without much regard to economy?

Eh, try disconnecting it like wfooshee said.

2) Can anyone recommend a map that will yield acceptable off-idle throttle response and good fuel mileage that is compatible with my setup (K&N + LV cans)? My riding is more focused upon longer distance touring rather than keeping up with the sport bikes.

If you find one let me know. I think they answer is two custom maps with the PC3 map swticher.

5) If I go back to the stock pipes, will the bike be too rich if I keep the custom map?

Probably. Try it.

8) Someone suggested that I might consider hooking up the O2 sensor with the PC III, but it seems to me that this effectively defeats the point of having an aftermarket fuel management device. Comments??

I did this [inadvertently] for 8000 miles. Bogged down and surged [i.e. too rich] - it wasn't good. As I wasn't anywhere near home I compensated by pushing the buttons on the PC3 to compensate. it helped a little, but was still worse than stock.

Sorry for the long post. I'm new to this bike and I'm just trying to educate myself a bit on the FJR. I am planning a cross-continent trip at the end of June and I want everything to be pretty much optimized by then. Thanks for the help.Ross

Have fun!

And BTW ... the G2 throttle tube helps [on the 06] but it's not enough. I still had to buy a PC3. At least I didn't buy a Honda or Kawasaki to solve the problem ;-)

 

[wfooshee]

Will the bike run too lean (i.e. leaner than stock) with the PC III disconnected given my configuration (K&N + LV cans)? Or does the O2 sensor compensate?
Thanks

Ross

O2 sensor will have the ECU keeping its mixture while in closed loop, the cans and filter may add breathing capacity , but I don't know if that affects mixture.

Thing about this ECU is it doesn't use an airflow sensor, airflow is calculated based on temp, pressure, throttle, and o2 readings. The O2 should keep it on target for mixture, I think, regardless increased flow.

Guessing, though, pretty much.

You're not gonna lean it out so much that it burns psitons just by having a filter and cans on it, though. O2 sensor tells the ECU when it's too lean.

 

[gixxerjasen]

Why not just hook up your computer to the PCIII and save the current map and try something different? Run the Zero map and it should make it so the PCIII does nothing at all. If you don't like it you can always load back the old one. That's kind of the beauty of having something like a Power Commander. It's way easier to try a different map than pulling jets and needles.

On my PCII I had for my TL1000R I had a nice performance map loaded and it worked really well. But when I took a trip I loaded back the zero map putting it back to stock basically and got much better mileage from a tank of gas. I'd think you could do something similar.

That was all before the map switchers came out. I'm thinking my next Power Commander will have one of those.

 

[RossKean]

Thanks for all of the comments. I am not planning to keep the current configuration because I require better tank range and lower operating costs. For now, I will try to find a setup that will yield acceptable performance with significantly better economy. If I don't succeed, I may E-bay the pipes and Power Commander, (as suggested by ChrisW)! While the custom dyno tune is a great thing in theory, either the tuning was not done in a competent manner or the original owner's objectives differ significantly from mine.

I think my course of investigation will go as follows:

1) Do some general maintenance including new plugs, clean air filter, change oil etc. I will run a tank or so and get a baseline on mileage.

2) Hook the computer to the PC III and back up the current custom map.

3) Disconnect PC III and run a tank without any aftermarket mapping. This will give me a non-PC baseline for performance and mileage. (Thanks for the instructions, wfooshee)

4) I will try a few of the maps posted on this site and other locations.

5) Don't think I'll try just rehooking the O2 sensor. I don't know whether I would even be able to interpret the results since I'm not quite sure what the system would be doing.

On the basis of these results, I'll decide whether to keep the system as I have it or get rid of the Power commander - I suspect I'll keep it and see if one of the "smoothness" maps works for me without messing up mileage. If I am "almost there", I'll try the G2 throttle tube.

I think this may be an interesting investigation and will post any results that may be relevant. I suspect it will take a couple of weeks since some miles have to be put on the bike at each stage. Unfortunately, I have to work as well!

Ross

 

[Patriot]

do change the plugs...stock plugs are maybe good for 15k miles

I'm a big fan, like some here, of Iridiums

they take less electric power to produce a hotter spark, but mainly last twice or more of the stock plugs

from the BIN O FACTS GEN II::

Spark Plugs:

NGK CR8E or DENSO U24ESR-N (GAP: 0.028" - 0.031")

From the '03 - '05 world: "The cat's *** spark plugs = Brand: NGK, Part Number: CR8EIX, Stock Number: 4218 (About $6 each) and likely last 16K miles. An alternative = NGK CR8VX" These plugs have not been verified to be cat's assy yet for the '06.

I've purchase from ebay, sparkplugs.com, and my local Advance Auto (generally they have to order them - takes 3 days)

 

[Patriot]

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=123878&hl=

 

[C&C]

Unless your PCIII is giving you unbelievable horsepower, 36 is kind of on the low side. As others have reported, you should almost attain north of 40 mpg with hardly a sweat.

 

[Patriot]

Unless your PCIII is giving you unbelievable horsepower, 36 is kind of on the low side. As others have reported, you should almost attain north of 40 mpg with hardly a sweat.

more throughput of air with pipes and K&N(?)

better combustion with PCIII

anytime more power means more fuel used, as a rule

 

[gixxerjasen]

Also, have you thought about getting another custom dyno tune of your own done for your type of riding? Keep all the mods, and get something done for smoothness and mileage.

 

[RossKean]

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=123878&hl=

I read that thread and there is a "Useless Pickles" map that is on the list of ones to try. Also found the "Wally Smoothness Map" that may be a good candidate. I am also a fan of iridium plugs - at the very least they will last longer. Also, no point in doing anything before routine maint is up to snuff which is why I would start with a clean air filter and new oil as well.

I might end out with a "custom" dyno tune; but only as a last resort. I have no need to get every fraction of a horsepower out of this thing. I would rather it was well-behaved and running as efficiently as possible. Many of those sorts of adjustments come from try it and then ride, rather than from a dynamometer.

My objective is to end out with acceptable throttle smoothness, mileage something north of 42 MPG under moderate highway (i.e. 70 mph) conditions while maintaining sufficient power for a little fun. Please keep in mind that I came from a large touring bike (Yamaha Venture) rather than a crotch rocket so my definition of a little fun is probably somewhat milder than many others!

I am seriously considering switching to the stock pipes; especially if the LV's are part of the problem. I don't "need" the extra noise and I'm not looking forward to the required maintenence - LV suggests that they may need repacking every 20,000 miles or so which translates to just over once per year for the amount I ride. I'll do them at least once and if its a major PITA, I'll swap to the stockers and flog these on ebay.

Again, thanks

Ross

 

[dustyrains]

Also, have you thought about getting another custom dyno tune of your own done for your type of riding? Keep all the mods, and get something done for smoothness and mileage.

I think this is the route I would go. The original owner, judging from the cans and K&N filter, was after max performance when he had it dyno tuned. Keep in mind that I have no ******* idea what I am talking about.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The windshield can have a significant impact on fuel mileage. If your windshield is much larger than stock you'll be taking a hit on mpg. Also the raised/lowered position will affect mpg. You can watch the instantaneous mileage indication on the display as you raise/lower the windshield on the highway and you'll see a significant mpg effect.

The PCIII will amost certainly lower the mpg. The fuel/air mixture will typically be richer using the PCIII.

The air filter will have minimal effect on mpg. The throttle opening at reasonable speeds will be so low that the air flow rate will be a low percentage of WOT flow.