Bike Wont Start

[Diablo1]

Exactly. A couple of things come to mind, a really rich condition which points to an EFI issue, a PAIR system malfunction where it was pulling crankcase gases without closing the valve, and possibly a rider issue if it was lugged for a long time. But what it isn't, is a fuel quality issue. You are right about the quality of gasoline sold in NA. Even if it's not Top Tier gas, the level of detergent mandated by the Fed's is more than adequate. Would have liked to get a nose on the oil. Really rich should show up in the pan and maybe the cylinder walls. A PAIR system issue should show up in the intake runners and clear back to the valve cover. The gunk in the cylinders looks suspiciously like the gunk that covers the reeds in the valve cover. But, I'm speculating without the motor on my bench. I just know it isn't fuel quality.

Can you explain how the PAIR system failure could cause oil to go down the intake ports? I looked at the service manual, but I can’t understand how. The air induction goes from the airbox to the reed valves to the exhaust port. If the crankcase vents excess oil to the airbox, the oil can go down the intake ports, and doesn’t need a PAIR system failure.

 

[saread]

If, and this is a big if, the air cut off valve failed the PAIR system could pull negative pressure on the crankcase from the air box. Or, depending on state, the crankcase could push positive pressure that way. The reeds should stop this. When I've looked at my reeds they were so gunked up that they weren't stopping anything. This is speculation of course, other than bypassing the rings, there isn't any real way for there to be oil in the cylinder. Well, unless the valve guide seals were gone. But that almost makes no sense in an engine with those miles. Neither does the PAIR failure. Just spit balling a bit.

 

[olderNOTwiser]

Saw something like this once when someone evil put sugar in a friends gas tank.

 

[2wheelhorse]

Hey I'm so sorry about your wife's cancer fight. This is a related question about the no start issue. Mine is a 2020 ES with around 7k miles on it. ALL maintenance is up to date based on miles. On 2 occasions over the past few months I experienced my FJR cranking but not starting. What I did was turn the ignition off, waited a few seconds, and then turned the ignition back on. The bike immediately started both times. I am wondering if I attempted to start it too quickly, causing the computer not to set up properly? Or could this be the beginning of a more serious problem? Welcome any comments. The solution of resetting the ignition seems too simple for OP's problem, but I wanted to put this out there anyway. Thanks , Joe

 

[escapefjrtist]

Hey I'm so sorry about your wife's cancer fight. This is a related question about the no start issue. Mine is a 2020 ES with around 7k miles on it. ALL maintenance is up to date based on miles. On 2 occasions over the past few months I experienced my FJR cranking but not starting. What I did was turn the ignition off, waited a few seconds, and then turned the ignition back on. The bike immediately started both times. I am wondering if I attempted to start it too quickly, causing the computer not to set up properly? Or could this be the beginning of a more serious problem? Welcome any comments. The solution of resetting the ignition seems too simple for OP's problem, but I wanted to put this out there anyway. Thanks , Joe

Are you 100% positive the key was fully in the "on" position? There has been a couple threads with FJRs that crank but not start if key is not fully turned on. I always make sure I positively turn the key to the on position and then wait for fuel pump & dash to finish their routine before cranking.

~G

 

[RossKean]

Are you 100% positive the key was fully in the "on" position? There has been a couple threads with FJRs that crank but not start if key is not fully turned on. I always make sure I positively turn the key to the on position and then wait for fuel pump & dash to finish their routine before cranking.

~G

Given the photos of the disassembled engine, I think further speculation about root cause is a moot point. Just a question of whether Yamaha can be shamed into honoring their warranty without BS excuses.

 

[thinkingofone]

Does anybody have the phone number to call yamaha about my bike

 

[ERS]

Try Yamaha customer service at 1-800-962-7926 . I'd be curious to see if your dealer has even contacted Yamaha. There should be a reference # for the case if they did. Customer service will want your VIN # and should have a record if a call was logged by the dealer.

Hope this works out.

 

[Diablo1]

As to the speculation about bad gas causing this mess, I recall that BP had a local problem with contaminated gasoline a few years ago. The gas had some type of plastic base chemical contaminant that ruined a bunch of car engines. BP took responsibility quickly and paid for the damage. However, in this case of the FJR 1300, I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions without more solid proof. Yamaha should be doing a much more thorough investigation above the dealer level.

 

[escapefjrtist]

Given the photos of the disassembled engine, I think further speculation about root cause is a moot point. Just a question of whether Yamaha can be shamed into honoring their warranty without BS excuses.

??? RK, did you even read the post I quoted? Completely unrelated question from a couple of no-starts.

~G

 

[RossKean]

??? RK, did you even read the post I quoted? Completely unrelated question from a couple of no-starts.

~G

Misinterpreted, perhaps. I was thinking about the current situation, not the other one that you specifically quoted. You are quite possibly correct about the ignition switch not being fully engaged, although I haven't personally encountered that. (I know there were ignition switch issues with some Gen I and Gen II bikes.)

Possible that the engine was flooded and it cleared sufficiently after the first start attempt - I have seen this but only with the second attempt being tried sometime later. I have also had a successful start after a failed initial attempt which I attributed to a weak battery - cranking wasn't very lively. Battery condition can often make a big difference.

 

[SkooterG]

Hey I'm so sorry about your wife's cancer fight. This is a related question about the no start issue. Mine is a 2020 ES with around 7k miles on it. ALL maintenance is up to date based on miles. On 2 occasions over the past few months I experienced my FJR cranking but not starting. What I did was turn the ignition off, waited a few seconds, and then turned the ignition back on. The bike immediately started both times. I am wondering if I attempted to start it too quickly, causing the computer not to set up properly? Or could this be the beginning of a more serious problem? Welcome any comments. The solution of resetting the ignition seems too simple for OP's problem, but I wanted to put this out there anyway. Thanks , Joe

A less than healthy battery could cause this I believe. A riding buddy had the same issue (I believe) on his 2014 FJR and a new battery solved it. In his case, he followed my recommendation and installed an AntiGravity lithium battery. This battery spins that start fookin fast!

 

[escapefjrtist]

A less than healthy battery could cause this I believe. A riding buddy had the same issue (I believe) on his 2014 FJR and a new battery solved it. In his case, he followed my recommendation and installed an AntiGravity lithium battery. This battery spins that start fookin fast!

True, but with a fairly new (2020) FJR, battery is likely still in good condition. Unless of course it's been drained / killed a couple times. Perhaps loose battery connection(s)? Still on the fence with these new fangled Lithium batteries. For those of us who ride into the 30s has the low temperature start issues been resolved?

~G

 

[mr.paul]

Doesn’t speak to the OP’s problem, but regarding lithium battery performance in the cold, they just need “warming” up. The initial try may not provide the minimum voltage needed to make the spark happen (11.8?). But once a load has occurred, such as initial start attempt, the battery warms internally and usually provides enough voltage. I have been using lithium batteries on my FJR for over dozen years with no real issues. My first, a Shorai, was still going strong at 11 years old when I replaced it with an Anti Gravity battery. Who knows how long that Shorai would have gone. I was just trying to be proactive. In the 12-13 years I have been running lithium batteries, I have never failed to start though sometimes failed on the initial try. I must admit though, once I entered into my ‘60’s a few years back, the desire to ride in the cold has lost it’s allure.

 

[vzhq16]

I have a Shorai lithium in my 2016. It works fine as long as it a) doesn't sit too long and b) doesn't get too cold. It's good in my garage for about 3-4 days but beyond that is a roll of the dice. I have a DVR installed on the bike so there is a small parasitic drain to keep that operational. I also ride year round and the only time it has been affected by the cold was a ride to a meet up of the Sub-Zero Riders club. I rode for ~50 miles in 19° weather after which it sat in a parking lot for about 2 hours. When I first tried to start it the engine turned over too slowly to catch. I let it sit for ~30 seconds and tried again. The second attempt it started and I got to ride home in what was now 17° weather. I've wanted to try that "put a load on it" trick before but that has never worked for me. For whatever reason, when this battery gets below ~11.9V it just shuts down.

 

[thinkingofone]

hello just an update...spoke with yamaha and they are going with what the dealer says,it being a gas issue...they told me I can go for a 2nd opinion if i like which is more or less after the fact since bike is being fixed on my dime...asked to speak with a supervisor and now just waiting to hear back from them...Im trying to be positive but things dont look good

 

[an-guy]

Wow....that's freaking screwed up...

 

[RossKean]

hello just an update...spoke with yamaha and they are going with what the dealer says,it being a gas issue...they told me I can go for a 2nd opinion if i like which is more or less after the fact since bike is being fixed on my dime...asked to speak with a supervisor and now just waiting to hear back from them...Im trying to be positive but things dont look good

I'm surprised they are agreeing with a "Bad Fuel" diagnosis, assuming the riding has been anywhere in North America. At the very least, I would want more specifics on how they think this might have happened. Owner's manual doesn't require anything special beyond a certain octane and max. ethanol content. If they require anything else, it is on them, not the owner. I would push for more information. Unfortunately, our armchair mechanic internet diagnosis won't do you any good. Expert or not, they would laugh at anyone citing an internet forum as an authority.

 

[an-guy]

For sure... I would not take this lying down. Unless I actually ran the wrong gas (like I currently am, the timing of this thread and my E15 thread is impeccable...) I'd be getting the bike back and going somewhere else and threatening things and all kinds of unhappy times. My gut just tells me they are taking you for a ride...

 

[vzhq16]

What I would like to know is how the engine became that gunked up. I have never seen that kind of goo inside of a combustion chamber of any engine, ever. I would ask for an analysis of what that stuff is and where it might have come from. Of the millions of engines that run for billions of miles without major fuel-related failures, why this one, this time? That doesn't look like any kind of "normal" engine deposit I've ever seen. If there had been oil getting sucked into the intake at a rate that would cause a failure like that, it would be pretty obvious in the amount of oil consumed and possibly with a bit of smoke out the exhaust. I know the catalyst will kill off a lot of smoke (once it's warmed up) but something that would cause a catastrophic failure like that would surely overwhelm the catalyst and you'd see smoke in your mirrors. Also, if it were oil, those deposits would be much closer to black and hard. That stuff looks brown and gooey. Looks like something melted rather than burned.

Even if this is not a warrantable repair, there could be recourse from the source of that goo. Bought bad gas? Someone put something in the tank?