Brain Teaser #3

[yanktar]

from no more than a good watch, a sextant, and some tables.

Er, you have sexant time yourself while on the table? :blink:

That's SEXTANT, TWN. As in one-sixth of a circle. LOL!

Sorry, but it's nothing to do with ***....Lots of them are really Octants (the aviation ones), one-eigth of a circle. but they get called "sextants" anyway.

 

[twowheelnut]

Ohhhhhh, without my glasses on I thought you wrote '*** and'...

 

[yanktar]

Ohhhhhh, without my glasses on I thought you wrote '*** and'...

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything--I'd have ended up with a nose-enema!

 

[FJRottie]

I have used a sextant. They were neat, but now we have GPS.

 

[slapnpop]

Uhm... Big problem Yanktar, as your riddle stated it's only possible from the north pole. If you walked 1 mile south to be at the south pole, there would be no west to go. Every direction would be due north, so he couldn't walke the 1 mile west leg. He would have to walk 1 mile south, then 1 mile north, THEN 1 mile west.

I re-iterate, as written, your riddle holds true ONLY for the north pole. I hope you read all of your word problems with in that highschool geometry class.

 

[MCRIDER007]

But people navigated to the poles LONG before GPS was around.  They used celestial navigation--a sextant, an accurate watch, sight reduction tables and a celestial almanac.  There's even a celestial compass designed for aircraft in polar flights during WWII.  Used correctly (and it takes practice--it's a *****) it will tell you accurately which direction you are headed, without the need for magnetic compass corrections.

Its been 35 years since I graduated from the Navy's (airborne) Celestial Navigation School so my celestial navigation might be a little rusty, but I don't know how anyone could walk a circle around either of the poles without taking fixes every few feet and being able to visibly mark the last fix behind them so they would have a frame of reference where to go next. Without the markings, it would be like telling someone in rowboat in the middle of the ocean to row around a spot in the ocean that they couldn't see. Celestial navigation is not nearly as accurate on land as it is in the water because of elevation changes and if you do not know your precise elevation you could be miles off.

Navigators during WWII and for at least 30 years afterward used a gyro compass and a system called "grid navigation" when they flew anywhere close to the poles. They would lay the "grid" over an existing map and in effect would creat a new north pole with the gyro compass and navigate relative to that spot. It was a very sound navigation system as long as you accurately knew the "drift" of the gyro compass.

 

[RadioHowie]

Uhm...  Big problem Yanktar, as your riddle stated it's only possible from the north pole.  If you walked 1 mile south to be at the south pole, there would be no west to go.  Every direction would be due north, so he couldn't walke the 1 mile west leg.  He would have to walk 1 mile south, then 1 mile north, THEN 1 mile west. 
I re-iterate, as written, your riddle holds true ONLY for the north pole.  I hope you read all of your word problems with in that highschool geometry class.

god...GOD...[SIZE=14pt]GOD[/SIZE] I hate to go with Yanktar but re-read the solution... the camp is not a mile north of the south pole, it's a mile PLUS 250 or so yards, so going south from the camp takes you towards the south pole, but not all the way to it, so a right turn, then a mile west, takes you right back to the point where you turned to the west...you've gone in a circle one mile in circumference so you're back where you started, one mile south of camp. Head north and you're back in camp.

HOWEVER!!! You will NOT be able to determine the color of the bear that's been shot, since the only "bear" likely to be at the south pole would be a Russian, probably a soldier or scientist, and he or she could be red, black, yellow, brown or white, depending on his or her ancestry.

 

[MCRIDER007]

the camp is not a mile north of the south pole, it's a mile PLUS 250 or so yards, so going south from the camp takes you towards the south pole, but not all the way to it, so a right turn, then a mile west, takes you right back to the point where you turned to the west...you've gone in a circle one mile in circumference so you're back where you started, one mile south of camp.  Head north and you're back in camp.

If you are 250 yards from the South Pole or a mile and 250 yards from the South Pole, every direction that you point a compass is going to be North, actually I think the compass will not point in any direction consistently because the magnetic pull is going to be equal in every direction. You would not be able to use a compass to go North or South let alone East or West. and if you pick a direction and start walking you will either walk in a straight line or a crooked line but it is unlikely that you will make a perfect circle. Even if you guessed right and walked South for a mile, did a right turn and somehow got back to the place you started, you would not know which way was back to camp unless your previous trail was marked.

 

[FJRocket]

Hey, read into it anything.... any way you want.

Yanktar said the guy shot a bear. So pick a color, any color. Now if he would have perhaps said "what color bear would he be hunting?", then you might be able to say NO BEARS, but the riddle said he shot a bear. So pick a color.

Now we've gone from celestial navigation and geometry to English. Is that a matter of semantics? Hmmm....

 

[MCRIDER007]

I re-iterate, as written, your riddle holds true ONLY for the north pole.  I hope you read all of your word problems with in that highschool geometry class.

Actually, I think this riddle only holds true for the "magnetic" North Pole which is about 1000 miles from the "true" North Pole. If one had a camp on the Magnetic North Pole and walked a mile in any direction (which a compass would say is South), took a right hand turn and followed the compass's indication of "West" for a mile, he should be walking in a circle around the Magnetic North Pole. He could walk a mile, 2 miles, or 3 miles but where ever he stops, if somehow he walks a perfect circle, he will still be only be a mile from camp. Even if he didn't walk a perfect circle, his compass will point North directly at his campsite and if he happens to shoot a bear along the way.... it most likely will be a polar bear.

 

[RadioHowie]

I'm sticking with YT on this one.

Stop with the compasses already. You don't have a compass. You have a Garmin 2610, okay? So the magnetic pole variance ain't got nothin' to do with it.

FORGET THE COMPASS!! It's a mind problem -- not a practical experiment!!

280 yards north of the south pole, the circumference of the earth is exactly 1 mile, okay? So pick any point exactly 1 mile north of that 1 mile circumference circle. Any point. That point you picked is your camp, okay?

Now, from your camp, you walk south, towards the south pole, 1 mile. When you get to the 1 mile point you turn right/west and walk 1 mile. At the end of that mile, you're right back where you started, right? Now you turn right again, to the north, and proceed one mile. Guess where you are? Right back at your camp, where you discover an agent from Interpol there to arrest you for shooting a Russian of unknown ancestry.

Yanktar, you DO know your geometry and geography, but that's all I'm givin' you.

 

[slapnpop]

Uhm...  Big problem Yanktar, as your riddle stated it's only possible from the north pole.  If you walked 1 mile south to be at the south pole, there would be no west to go.  Every direction would be due north, so he couldn't walke the 1 mile west leg.  He would have to walk 1 mile south, then 1 mile north, THEN 1 mile west. 
I re-iterate, as written, your riddle holds true ONLY for the north pole.  I hope you read all of your word problems with in that highschool geometry class.

god...GOD...[SIZE=14pt]GOD[/SIZE] I hate to go with Yanktar but re-read the solution... the camp is not a mile north of the south pole, it's a mile PLUS 250 or so yards, so going south from the camp takes you towards the south pole, but not all the way to it, so a right turn, then a mile west, takes you right back to the point where you turned to the west...you've gone in a circle one mile in circumference so you're back where you started, one mile south of camp. Head north and you're back in camp.

HOWEVER!!! You will NOT be able to determine the color of the bear that's been shot, since the only "bear" likely to be at the south pole would be a Russian, probably a soldier or scientist, and he or she could be red, black, yellow, brown or white, depending on his or her ancestry.

DAMN!

you're right!

I need to read more thoroughly.

 

[MCRIDER007]

When you get to the 1 mile point you turn right/west and walk 1 mile. At the end of that mile, you're right back where you started, right?

Only if you walk a mile in a perfect circle -- which is very unlikely unless you have a trail to follow. You are much more likely to end up about a mile from where you turned right, especially if you use a reference point to keep your direction constant, which is what everyone is taught to do in cross country navigation.

 

[RadioHowie]

It's a lot like what I told my son a few years ago...

"Son, it's just a movie. Han Solo isn't really frozen...he'll be okay. I promise. And Luke will get a new hand. It's just a movie."

So MC, it's a mental experiment. We don't expect you to go to the South Pole. We don't want you to shoot any poor bearsy wearsies. You don't have to get your feet cold and wet.

Okay???

[SIZE=7pt]( do I need to add a smiley here? )[/SIZE]

 

[MCRIDER007]

So MC, it's a mental experiment.  We don't expect you to go to the South Pole.  We don't want you to shoot any poor bearsy wearsies.  You don't have to get your feet cold and wet.
Okay???

Sure, if you think an answer that can't be done by a mortal human is a real answer. I didn't even think the riddle had a practical solution, but actually it does (barely), and it is not at the South Pole.

 

[yanktar]

I'm sticking with YT on this one. 
...

Yanktar, you DO know your geometry and geography, but that's all I'm givin' you.

Hey, I'll take what I can get!

Here's an astro or celestial compass which you would use at either pole:

https://www.celestaire.com/catalog/products/2201.html

This place is really pricey for these.

These are modern sextants, about as good as you can get.

https://www.celestaire.com/catalog/Marine_S...sens_and_Plath/

You can buy a LOT of GPSs for what this costs!

If I had left out the bear, ALL you guys would have gotten it 1-2-3! I HAD to throw in a red herring--or a polar bear....

 

[Pending]

Polar bears do not live in the southern hemisphere.

 

[meosborn]

( do I need to add a smiley here? )

No, I think most of us were smiling when we read it anyhow.

 

[C&C]

Not that big a deal, and in effect, the riddle is flawed. It was nice to see that the majority of members thought inside and outside of the box. (and for that matter it doesn't have to be a box, though that's another tangent we needn't pursue) :clap: I applaud the mental efforts presented, which I think was the purpose of the riddle to begin with. Good job guys/gals.

 

[yanktar]

Not that big a deal, and in effect, the riddle is flawed.  It was nice to see that the majority of members thought inside and outside of the box. (and for that matter it doesn't have to be a box, though that's another tangent we needn't pursue)  :clap:  I applaud the mental efforts presented, which I think was the purpose of the riddle to begin with.  Good job guys/gals.

You mean the bear?

Well, Ok, maybe. But without the bear it would have been too easy and you would have gotten the circle 1.159 miles north of the South Pole instantly!