Brake Bleed sequence on 2014

[MCRIDER007]

I did the test three times to move a bit more fluid around.I'd much rather do the test in the garage instead of finding a suitable gravel road and hoping I don't crash the bike while trying to lock up the brakes.

It wasn't my intention to be a cheerleader regarding using a dirt surface to activate the ABS brakes but it is really easy to do and gives those like myself, who have never activated the ABS during normal street riding on pavement, the opportunity to experience how the bike is going to feel when the ABS is activated.

 

[mcatrophy]

... and gives those like myself, who have never activated the ABS during normal street riding on pavement, the opportunity to experience how the bike is going to feel when the ABS is activated.

I would suggest you do "test" your ABS, and on different surfaces, including:- a perfect, dry road;

- similar but wet;

- deliberate full braking in the wet over a metal manhole cover;

- the road contaminated with oil, sand, gravel;

In all cases have the bike upright in a straight line. Use the front brake on its own, the rear on its own, and both together. Oh, yes, make sure no-one is close behind you .

You will be surprised by how much braking is available even on poor surfaces, and how little drama there is.

I do these tests occasionally as the mood and opportunity comes round, it makes sure the ABS is oporational when it is actually needed.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Since the brake system is closed,how much fluid do you guys think will flow through the ABS control when activated,and where does it move to and from?

In Chapter 1 of the FSM, there is a description of the various systems.

That way there is no mis-information on the Forum.

Some years publications are better than other years in their content , but all have it,

For example, the description of the ABS system is far better in my 06 service manual I had, than in my 2014 manual and I have a rather damaged Gen 1 manual, a 04 I think, with a far better description of the Fuel Injection.

The description of the Electronic Suspension is rather hopeless, looked like it was rather rushed.

You can tell the new fluid that pushes through when you activate the ABS.

Especially the first time you perform the procedure.

I had chunky white stuff with a bit of milky fluid and bubbles come through on my 06.

To be honest I haven't done it on my Gen3 yet, been too crook, a job to do one day, have only performed a normal flush.

Maybe next time I remove that awful Gen3 dash panel.

 

[RaYzerman19]

Since the brake system is closed,how much fluid do you guys think will flow through the ABS control when activated,and where does it move to and from?

Darn good question John...... it won't be much. One can only presume it is the same amount of fluid to push out the caliper pistons, which I presume is more than what is "trapped" in those fluid circuits. IMHO, I'd bleed everything first, activate the ABS, and bleed some from one front caliper (upper) and either the right front caliper lower or rear. A squirt or two should do it..... given past issues we've heard about, I'd do this once a year (as opposed to Yammy's recommendation of 2 years). I'm going to do a little experiment soon..... see if the pump will move fluid while a bleeder is cracked open. Will advise.

 

[user 8909]

IMO,testing your ABS is the most logical means of circulating the fluid and everybody needs to know how their bike will react in case of an emergency.

A dirt road, a gravel road or most common for us is wet pavement. You should know what to expect when slamming on your brakes.

I will probably bleed them, ride and test the ABS and later in the month bleed them again.

 

[ionbeam]

IMO,testing your ABS is the most logical means of circulating the fluid and everybody needs to know how their bike will react in case of an emergency...

An emergency such as your ABS NOT working when you go to test it by locking up the front wheel? Tuck, drop & roll. Make sure the ABS works, then go find out how your bike reacts and feels on an emergency stop.

 

[user 8909]

Ok, assuming your ABS works from the factory. Test it by using the rear brake first. Duh.

I guess the other option would to take it to the dealer and have them verify?

 

[ionbeam]

The front and rear ABS are separate systems, one can be bad independently of the other. The good news is that I don't remember ever reading about a front ABS failure without some kind of warning. The rear ABS almost always suffers a silent death, it isn't until the rear brake is stomped hard that the ABS system is found to be failed.

It only hurts once to pull a dash panel and put a switch on the ABS test plug. Then anytime you want to test/bleed the ABS system simply flick the switch and turn the key on while holding the front and rear brakes on and it will activate the ABS system. Flick the switch off and you are back riding again, all without having to pull any panels.

 

[user 8909]

That raises the question of the front and rear brake being linked. Stomping on the rear should also apply a % of the front, should it not?

Flipping the ABS on and off would be a handy feature, especially on ADV bikes, but that little bit of pain to add this when all I want to do is bleed the brakes, well...personally if I wanted to add the switch id do it along with something else that requires tupperware removal. That's just me.

 

[hppants]

Well I did the normal flush. My bike was manufactured in 5/2014. I was surprised how dirty the fluid was - especially the clutch fluid. Looking at the metering block, I think the amount of fluid in the ABS is substantial at least compared to the rest of the system. It's not 5% to be sure.

I put the bike together and activated the ABS (front and rear) on dry pavement and on a gravel road. I must say that this experience was enlightening for rider training purposes. I was amazed at how stable the bike remained under a full blown panic stop. In each case, I only felt the pedal/handle pulse a couple of times as I was only going 25 mph or so.

I don't think it was enough to do anything. When I got back to the shop, I re-bled all around and the fluid appeared to be the same color and consistency. I ran enough fluid through it to know if some of the ABS **** would work its way out.

So I've got to re-think this. I'm leaning toward Alan's method - find a tech day and watch someone that knows more than me do it. Then I can duplicate it.

 

[RaYzerman19]

That raises the question of the front and rear brake being linked. Stomping on the rear should also apply a % of the front, should it not?
Flipping the ABS on and off would be a handy feature, especially on ADV bikes, but that little bit of pain to add this when all I want to do is bleed the brakes, well...personally if I wanted to add the switch id do it along with something else that requires tupperware removal. That's just me.

You're not quite understanding the linked bit....... the only link is that when you hit the rear brake, the rear brake circuit flows fluid to the rear and right front caliper lower....... to keep it simple, these are not cross-linked with the front, so there is no fluid exchange between front and rear circuits.

Also, this ABS diagnostic plug is not a way to shut the ABS off... it's for diagnostics. To shut the ABS off you'd have to pull the ABS fuse or somehow put a switch in the circuit powering it. Leave the tupperware on, you don't want to do that on an FJR.

Pants, can't say if enough fluid would flow with only a couple of pulses on a road test, possible but I don't know..... that's also why I prefer the cycling done at the ABS diagnostic plug in the comfort of your shop while all the bleeding equipment is still right beside you, as an all-in-one job. Do it annually and I don't think anyone would have to worry much about their ABS working.

Background on why I think this way..... on my '07 I never activated the ABS during my regular flushes in 7 years (ignored the FSM 'cuz I are SMRT!). I would flush annually both clutch and brakes, and discovered one day while going too hot into a corner that my rear wheel would skid for quite a distance...... it took some cycling to get that freed up, so this was my lesson. Anybody want a used ABS pump for an '06-'07, I got one from ebay I never used.

 

[user 8909]

Check, thanks.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Flipping the ABS on and off would be a handy feature, especially on ADV bikes

Easy to do on my Stelvio NTX, it has a switch.

I almost never do switch it off tho.

Back to topic, it was easier with speed bleeders, you may need to engage a test a few times to pump all the metering block clean.

Do the normal procedure, front, linked then the rear brakes, all the circuits then a normal brake

Maybe an extra 10 minutes all up.

Perform the procedure once and you will kick yourself you didn't do it sooner.

And it's far safer than road testing / engaging the ABS.

Install a switch under the riders seat, you may only use it once a year or two, would be real easy.

 

[audiowize]

I wouldn't recommend adding a switch to the ABS diagnostics plug. If your added wiring happens to short out while you're running through some high speed twisties, I wonder what will happen...

 

[ionbeam]

I wouldn't recommend adding a switch to the ABS diagnostics plug. If your added wiring happens to short out while you're running through some high speed twisties, I wonder what will happen...

Nothing. The ECU only looks at the diagnostic plug when the key is first turned on, if the switch shorts after the key is turned on the ECU won't see it. If the switch falls out of the plug there is nothing for the ECU to see.

 

[Queensland Ken]

I wouldn't recommend adding a switch to the ABS diagnostics plug. If your added wiring happens to short out while you're running through some high speed twisties, I wonder what will happen...

All my accessory wiring is double insulated, so not a problem

Do you use double insulated wires ???

Brakes would still work anyhow if it did.

 

[hppants]

So if I didn't mind removing the D panel every time I am bleeding the brakes, could I just build a jumper as shown in post #28 by Queensland, and then go through the diagnostic procedure, then just button up everything and put it back together?

Also, if I take Ion's procedure below and perform it:

To oversimplify ABS activation method 2 to test the hydraulic system:

verify that the battery voltage is >12.8 volts or this test won't work; charge or replace as necessary

put the bike on the center stand, in neutral

with the ignition key off, jump the ABS Diagnostic connector's Sky Blue wire to the Black wire

turn the red Run/Stop switch to OFF

turn the ignition key on and wait for 2 seconds

now press and hold the Starter button for >4 seconds, the engine will not start; release the Starter button

simultaneously operate both the front and rear brakes

0.5 seconds later the front brake lever will pulse twice; then the rear brake pedal will pulse twice; after the brake pedal stops pulsing, 0.5 seconds later the bake lever will again start pulsating and continue for ~2 seconds.

turn the ignition switch off

remove the jumper

set the Run/Stop switch back to Run

- After this is done, and I pull the jumper, and button up everything, do I have to reset any codes on the ECU?

 

[RaYzerman19]

Sounds good to me, Pants....... I'm going one better, I have the mating connector which I will leave permanently connected, with a switch (or removable switch perhaps). Plenty of room on the outboard side of the battery on a GenIII to store it (using the appropriate precautions of preventing shorts, etc.).

 

[mikerider]

It said:

"simultaneously operate both the front and rear brakes"

are we supposed to keep holding them down (until all the pulsings are over) or squeeze and release?

 

[ionbeam]

It said:
"simultaneously operate both the front and rear brakes"

are we supposed to keep holding them down (until all the pulsings are over) or squeeze and release?

It replies: Keep holding the F & R brakes down, that's how you will feel the pulsing.