I have a 2004 FJR and seem to notice some squirriliness in the front brakes. Therefore, was wondering if after 10 years these brake lines could now be prone to internal expansion during braking and/or posssiblty fail totally at the wrong time? If so... are OEM yamaha lines good enough?
Brake Line Replacement
- Thread starter VTGuy
- Start date
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SLK50
Well-known member
"Squirreliness" could be from dirt, corrosion, worn brake pads.
Check for leaking brake lines or fork seals.
Replacing brake lines alone will not improve brake performance.
I would begin with a complete disassembly, cleaning, and inspection
of the entire system before I started replacing parts at random.
Check for leaking brake lines or fork seals.
Replacing brake lines alone will not improve brake performance.
I would begin with a complete disassembly, cleaning, and inspection
of the entire system before I started replacing parts at random.
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rickysnickers
Well-known member
Depending on how long you plan to keep your bike, I'd look into a set pf Spiegler lines.
garyahouse
newbs need the forum
Not sure what you meant about squirreliness. Old brake lines can certainly produce a little sponginess in the brakes. Mine does this, but I really don't care. When ya squeeze 'em just a little harder, they'll do their job just fine. But I'm wondering about your squirrels. Exactly what do you mean... what does the front end do when ya clamp on the brakes? What shape is that front tire in? How often has the fluid been changed? How long have you had the bike?
Gary
darksider #44
Gary
darksider #44
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Yahama's spec'd out replacement interval is 2 years.
https://www.fjr-tips.org/maint/fjr-maintenance.xls
https://www.fjr-tips.org/maint/fjr-maintenance.xls
Actually per the Owners Manual the maintenance schedule specs replacement of lines at every 4 years. Two years is for fluid change.
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Chiefblueman
Well-known member
Do you have ABS? Spieglers could be pretty spendy for ABS, I'm thinking in the $500 range, and quite a little project. DAMHIKT. No ABS, piece of cake.
After 10 years I'd definitely change the lines, but that's just me. Rubber lines on cars last a long time but aren't exposed to UV like m/c lines are. Every 4 years seems a bit excessive. I wonder how many folks adhere to the factory replacement schedule.
The only thing you should notice from spongy brake lines is spongy brake feel as described by Gary. By my definition of squirrelly, I'd check tire condition and pressure, head bearings and service the calipers. Get the road spooge off those pistons. My front calipers dragged a bit until I did that.
After 10 years I'd definitely change the lines, but that's just me. Rubber lines on cars last a long time but aren't exposed to UV like m/c lines are. Every 4 years seems a bit excessive. I wonder how many folks adhere to the factory replacement schedule.
The only thing you should notice from spongy brake lines is spongy brake feel as described by Gary. By my definition of squirrelly, I'd check tire condition and pressure, head bearings and service the calipers. Get the road spooge off those pistons. My front calipers dragged a bit until I did that.
The bike had 7200 miles during the last 10 years. I purchased it in December, and added about 2000 miles to that so far. The “squirrel” like behavior is hard to quantify; other than a perception that when the front brakes are applied aggressively, the sensation of negative G force seems to wane as the bike does come to a halt, with a slight right-left high frequency yawing of the front end. (I think i know what I should be able to expect from the brakes on a bike such as this. And once or twice, I was caught without adequate margins. i.e too close to bumpers...)
Whatever might be wrong with the front end does not come from wear, but may come from natural breakdown of rubber parts. The fork seals are fine--- can not say for sure, that the caliper internals are ok.. but most likely they are. I the cleaned rotors . I think there might have been some contaminates on one of them. The side to side hunting is now greatly reduced but the sag in braking effort/performance is still there.
The previous owner did lot of things right. For instance, he changed the motor oil ahead of schedule in most cases and did the recalls.. (I have the service records) But the bike sat idle--while he drove other bikes. I therefore, doubt he changed rubber parts on schedule. So, before i entertain the idea of hanging myself out for major long distance drive.. I want to address at these "criticality one." issues. The rear brake hose needs to be replaced as well, along with (maybe), the clutch hose. Speaking of the clutch, when cold, the friction zone is well defined and predictable. However, when hot, the FZ has changed. With the apparent effect as if I was trying to start out in second gear. (Yes,, once or twice) I was in second gear..
Ok with that said.. I am going to be mindful of heavy braking situations, and drive the bike from Rochester NY to Erie PA today. I will be there till friday. If anyone has any suggestions on a good dealer in Erie/Waterford area that could replace these hoses without hosing me, please post your advice. Thanks.
Whatever might be wrong with the front end does not come from wear, but may come from natural breakdown of rubber parts. The fork seals are fine--- can not say for sure, that the caliper internals are ok.. but most likely they are. I the cleaned rotors . I think there might have been some contaminates on one of them. The side to side hunting is now greatly reduced but the sag in braking effort/performance is still there.
The previous owner did lot of things right. For instance, he changed the motor oil ahead of schedule in most cases and did the recalls.. (I have the service records) But the bike sat idle--while he drove other bikes. I therefore, doubt he changed rubber parts on schedule. So, before i entertain the idea of hanging myself out for major long distance drive.. I want to address at these "criticality one." issues. The rear brake hose needs to be replaced as well, along with (maybe), the clutch hose. Speaking of the clutch, when cold, the friction zone is well defined and predictable. However, when hot, the FZ has changed. With the apparent effect as if I was trying to start out in second gear. (Yes,, once or twice) I was in second gear..
Ok with that said.. I am going to be mindful of heavy braking situations, and drive the bike from Rochester NY to Erie PA today. I will be there till friday. If anyone has any suggestions on a good dealer in Erie/Waterford area that could replace these hoses without hosing me, please post your advice. Thanks.
Tire pressure? Aged rubber?
No mention of how often the brake and clutch fluid was flushed. That should be every other year. Speigler stainless lines are a great choice. There was a group buy back during Gen 1 days and a lot of us got them. Reports were consistently good from those reporting their experiences with the upgrade.
Sitting idle doesn't mean the fluid won't still attract water from the surrounding atmosphere like it always does. That's what can cause problems with the system and why it needs flushing regularly.
If the wheel is mounted right, the bearing test good, the forks are properly aligned in the triple clamp, then at least a brake flush would be tops on my list of things that cost more than just time to do. IIWM, I'd do the brake/clutch lines and then flush after inspecting the other things.
No mention of how often the brake and clutch fluid was flushed. That should be every other year. Speigler stainless lines are a great choice. There was a group buy back during Gen 1 days and a lot of us got them. Reports were consistently good from those reporting their experiences with the upgrade.
Sitting idle doesn't mean the fluid won't still attract water from the surrounding atmosphere like it always does. That's what can cause problems with the system and why it needs flushing regularly.
If the wheel is mounted right, the bearing test good, the forks are properly aligned in the triple clamp, then at least a brake flush would be tops on my list of things that cost more than just time to do. IIWM, I'd do the brake/clutch lines and then flush after inspecting the other things.
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SLK50
Well-known member
Now that we have a better description of the situation, I can tell you that
other than shortening the take-up point, ( lever travel ) new lines will have
no net effect on the results.
Furthermore, your clutch issues underscore what I already advocated,
disassembly, cleaning and flushing of both entire systems.
You can't expect improvement through replacement parts until you know
the condition of every component.
Think of it like this: would you replace the cams if lately acceleration
seemed a little "soft"?
other than shortening the take-up point, ( lever travel ) new lines will have
no net effect on the results.
Furthermore, your clutch issues underscore what I already advocated,
disassembly, cleaning and flushing of both entire systems.
You can't expect improvement through replacement parts until you know
the condition of every component.
Think of it like this: would you replace the cams if lately acceleration
seemed a little "soft"?
Redfish Hunter
Gone Fishing
The fluid will definitely absorb moisture while the bike sits idle. Possibly more than if the bike were ridden regularly, since there is seldom any heat transfer to the fluid. Of course, that could be argued either way.
You mentioned possible contaminants on the rotor. If there was something on the rotor then there is something on the pads. Changing pads and flushing fluid seems easier and cheaper than changing hoses. I'd start with new pads and fluid and see what happens next. Troubleshooting can be such fun!
You mentioned possible contaminants on the rotor. If there was something on the rotor then there is something on the pads. Changing pads and flushing fluid seems easier and cheaper than changing hoses. I'd start with new pads and fluid and see what happens next. Troubleshooting can be such fun!
RadioHowie
I Miss Beemerdons!
9200 miles???
2004 Cerulean Silver???
The finest model and color of any FJR ever??? (sorry Fred and Gary, but I hate that bass boat blue)
How much will ya sell it for???
Be still, my heart!!!
2004 Cerulean Silver???
The finest model and color of any FJR ever??? (sorry Fred and Gary, but I hate that bass boat blue)
How much will ya sell it for???
Be still, my heart!!!
infrared
Well-known member
- Joined
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VTGuy,
I'm not sure by your description, but I would make two recommendations.
First, check that the brake rotors are not warped. With the front wheel raised, rotate the front wheel, and see if the brake pads touch (or almost touch) the rotor at every place around the wheel. If any brake pad drags at some point (and providing that the wheel bearings are fine), then the rotor is warped. You may need to re-surface or replace the rotor. As you roll downhill at moderate speeds in neutral, if the rotors are warped, you should hear or feel the front brakes "pulsing" when you apply the front brake very lightly. Warped front rotors are not safe, no matter what else you may do as a repair.
Second, since you mentioned that the rotors may have been contaminated, there may still be contamination there. Brake cleaner is an aggressive chemical with only one real purpose in life, to clean brakes. If you used anything else, you need to apply real brake cleaner, with plenty of paper-towel action. Pull out the brake pads, and check them also. Even brake cleaner may not do a good clean-up there, but try it. Dry the brake cleaner from the pads with paper towels. If contamination has discolored any brake pads deeply, hate to say it, but those pads on that caliper may be toast. From your description, I would guess that you have contaminated brake pads, and as you brake long and hard, that stuff is cooking out of the pads again, to make the braking force get reduced as the pads get hot. To my knowledge, nothing else that might be a little dodgy in the braking system would let the brakes work well at the start of braking, and then get squirrelly before you can get stopped one time.
RaYzerman19
Go Wings!
VTGuy, I'd say your hoses don't need replacing and your problems are elsewhere...... thorough cleaning and flushing, rotors not warped, etc........ if you have time stop in at the tech day in Eden, NY and we'll have a look. 10k miles and sat a lot........
Regardless, you can't go wrong getting braided SS lines, they are awesome and need no replacement.
Why doesn't 2005 have the option for ABS in the profile?
Why doesn't 2005 have the option for ABS in the profile?
WBill
Well-known member
Speaking of replacing brake hoses: I blew a fork seal on my recent trip to Hanagan Meadows in AZ last week. Leaking out of the top, fork oil got on the right brake hose and maybe the pads, and now I am wondering if I need to replace the front hoses on both sides. If I replace the fronts, should I do the back? Any experts out there have opinions?
BTW, the old '05 non-ABS (63KMiles) was due for an upgrade, so I am adding new suspenders all around. A hose or two is small change. Thanks ahead, WBill
BTW, the old '05 non-ABS (63KMiles) was due for an upgrade, so I am adding new suspenders all around. A hose or two is small change. Thanks ahead, WBill
